Are Australia TOO GOOD?

[GWW]

How would Greenidge, Haynes, Richards and Lloyd have gone against McGrath, Warne and Co?

I think the Windies best side from the late 70's to mid 80's would have just shaded any Australian team from early 90's to today.

My money is on Australia for teh simple fact of SK Warne, bowlers who were barely half as good as Warne got wickets against them (admitedly only at Sydney) but Warne proved he could get wickets everywhere (Adel, Bris, Melb and Syd).

The Windies of the 80s had a real wekaness against quality spin bowling for example in India in 87-88 they only drew the test series 1-1 (IIRC Hirwani the leggie broke Massies record for best figures on debut (16-136) in that series). The year before against pakistan they only drew the series 1-1 (they were skittled for 53 chasing 240 to win teh 1st test) and I recall them being down 0-2 in Pakistan in teh early 90s only to draw the series 2-2.

Nup agaisnt quality spinners that side struggled hence why I think the Australian side of the mid to late 90s & 00s would shade the Windies side of the 80s

I think the Windies were at their peak in the late 70's, early 80's (they were starting to lose their invincibility by 87/87), i think their bowling attack - Holding, Marshall, Garner, Croft, Roberts etc etc would have been too good for the Australian batsmen, and with the 2 opening batsman, and Richards and Lloyd, they would have had too much attacking power for us. I doubt Gilchrist could have smashed Roberts, Garner, Holding, Marshall around when we were 5/120 either, like hes done so often in the last 7/8 years.

[Hondo]

GWW

By 1985/86'ish Holding, Roberts, Croft, Lloyd, Gomes and Garner were gone

So any comparison of the 2 great sides has to take both at the peak of their powers which for the Windies was exactly the era you said. Its a measure of the talent of the team that it remained dominant really until Steve Waugh stared down Curtly Ambrose in 1995.

Australia's great side of the 70s couldn't cope with them in WSC

So I find it hard to put any team ahead of them even tho the recent Aussie side would make a great fist of it

[GWW]

GWW

By 1985/86'ish Holding, Roberts, Croft, Lloyd, Gomes and Garner were gone

So any comparison of the 2 great sides has to take both at the peak of their powers which for the Windies was exactly the era you said. Its a measure of the talent of the team that it remained dominant really until Steve Waugh stared down Curtly Ambrose in 1995.

Australia's great side of the 70s couldn't cope with them in WSC

So I find it hard to put any team ahead of them even tho the recent Aussie side would make a great fist of it

I'm looking at the Windies era from late 70's to early 80's when all those players were still around. But you're right, its a difficult process, virtually impossible, all we can do is speculate. Maybe we could compare Steve Waugh's side that won 16 in a row or whatever circa 2000/01 with the Windies side of around 79/80. Who'd win? Obviously we'd never know, but my opinion is the Windies had that extra little magic that would see them with a slight edge.

[am Bays]

You mean the same late 70s side that got beaten by New Zealand (79-80)?

Cricinfo was so slow tonight I couldn't be stuffed finding the early 80s results and I also acknowledge the slow bunsens of the sub continent didn't really suit their quick quartet.

However when the Australians batsmens men of lesser ilk such as Wessells, Hilditch and Wood (84-85) showed a bit of bottle we made runs against that quartet and I maintain our better batsmen of the 90s and 00s would give McGrath and Warne runs to bowl at.

It'd be close 3-2 but I back our team to hold their own.

Which is a better team:

Wood, Laird/Dyson, Chappell, Hughes, Border, Welham, Marsh, Yardley, Lillee, Alderman, LAwson (the 81-82 team that drew the series 1-1 with the Windies) vs

Slater/Langer Hayden, Ponting, Martyn, M Waugh, S Waugh Gilchrist, Warne, Lee, Gillespie, McGrath the 00-01 Australian team

[GWW]

Damn you 80TM, i dont feel like doing research i just know they were bloody good 25 or so years ago

[am Bays]

Damn you 80TM, i dont feel like doing research i just know they were bloody good 25 or so years ago

I agree they were bloody good.

Just like our side of 00-02. Hondo S Waughs team IMO would beat teh Chappells teams of the mid 70s as Waughs team had much better openers and their is light years between Warne and Mallett/Jenner. You could argue the 70s side had a slightly better nidlle order and a better opening bowlers. But the sum of the parts I'd back Waugh teams over the Chappell teams everyteam

[mal]

You mean the same late 70s side that got beaten by New Zealand (79-80)?

Cricinfo was so slow tonight I couldn't be stuffed finding the early 80s results and I also acknowledge the slow bunsens of the sub continent didn't really suit their quick quartet.

However when the Australians batsmens men of lesser ilk such as Wessells, Hilditch and Wood (84-85) showed a bit of bottle we made runs against that quartet and I maintain our better batsmen of the 90s and 00s would give McGrath and Warne runs to bowl at.

It'd be close 3-2 but I back our team to hold their own.

Which is a better team:

Wood, Laird/Dyson, Chappell, Hughes, Border, Welham, Marsh, Yardley, Lillee, Alderman, LAwson (the 81-82 team that drew the series 1-1 with the Windies) vs

Slater/Langer Hayden, Ponting, Martyn, M Waugh, S Waugh Gilchrist, Warne, Lee, Gillespie, McGrath the 00-01 Australian team

The 00-01 side would have no hope of winning a series against those great WI teams.
SLATER
LANGER
HAYDEN
They would be constant failures

PONTING
M WAUGH
S WAUGH
GILCHRIST
Would make runs at times

LEE
would be smashed

GILLESPIE
would be ok but not a force

MCGRATH
would get wickets [as did Lillie but we still lost most times v WI]

WARNE
he would be the trump card and get wickets

Quite simply if Mcgrath/Warne bowled the WI cheap enough then
those great WI bowlers would rise to the occasion and bowl us out for less.

WI would win 4-1 0r 3-2 if WARNE gets big bags of wickets

[smithy]

Another consideration is the windies only bowled 70 overs a day.
These days they would have to bowl a spinner more often and release some pressure on the opposition.
Also quite often they would have Dujon at 6 to allow for the 4-5 quicks, who was quite a handy bat but in this day and age is too long a tail.

[GWW]

Another consideration is the windies only bowled 70 overs a day.
These days they would have to bowl a spinner more often and release some pressure on the opposition.
Also quite often they would have Dujon at 6 to allow for the 4-5 quicks, who was quite a handy bat but in this day and age is too long a tail.

With Greenidge, Haynes, Gomes, Richards, LLoyd and Rowe/Kalacharan they still had 6 good batsmen though.

[spell_check]

How would Greenidge, Haynes, Richards and Lloyd have gone against McGrath, Warne and Co?

I think the Windies best side from the late 70's to mid 80's would have just shaded any Australian team from early 90's to today.

My money is on Australia (not because of blind patriotism for all things green and gold) but for the simple fact of SK Warne, Australian bowlers who were barely half as good as Warne got wickets against them (admitedly only at Sydney) but Warne proved he could get wickets everywhere (Adel, Bris, Melb and Syd).

The Windies of the 80s had a real wekaness against quality spin bowling for example in India in 87-88 they only drew the test series 1-1 (IIRC Hirwani the leggie broke Massies record for best figures on debut (16-136) in that series). The year before against pakistan they only drew the series 1-1 (they were skittled for 53 chasing 240 to win the 1st test) and I recall them being down 0-2 in Pakistan in teh early 90s only to draw the series 2-2.

Nup agaisnt quality spinners that side struggled hence why I think the Australian side of the mid to late 90s & 00s would shade the Windies side of the 80s. Especially when you consider teh quality of our batting (Ponting, the Waughs, Hayden, Slater etc) and our quality fast bowlers McGrath, Gillespie, Fleming, Lee etc.

Hey it would be a great contest but I'd think more often than not we'd get the chocolates

Even Border got 11 wickets against them in 1989. Pitting Warne (before retirement ) and MacGill against those players if they were around today would see us have the upper hand.

P.S. Just make sure the wickets are spin friendly!

[GWW]

By the late 80's the Windies were starting to lose their superiority of a decade prior.

[The sarge]

I have only seen some highlights of the west indies sides but i would wonder how their bowlers would go with the more attacking nature of the batsman of the modern era. How do you think they would go with guys looking to attack them more and score at up to 4 runs an over instead of 2 or 2 and a half?

[GWW]

I have only seen some highlights of the west indies sides but i would wonder how their bowlers would go with the more attacking nature of the batsman of the modern era. How do you think they would go with guys looking to attack them more and score at up to 4 runs an over instead of 2 or 2 and a half?

Its pretty hard to attack when you've got guys like Garner, Marshall and Holding trying to knock your head off.

[Hondo]

I have only seen some highlights of the west indies sides but i would wonder how their bowlers would go with the more attacking nature of the batsman of the modern era. How do you think they would go with guys looking to attack them more and score at up to 4 runs an over instead of 2 or 2 and a half?

Its pretty hard to attack when you've got guys like Garner, Marshall and Holding trying to knock your head off.

Yes, it wasn't really a conscious choice the batsman made back then

Greg Chappell describes WSC as the hardest cricket he ever played - just surviving (in a batting sense) was an achievement.

Very few bad balls

[am Bays]

The 00-01 side would have no hope of winning a series against those great WI teams.
SLATER
LANGER
HAYDEN
They would be constant failures

PONTING
M WAUGH
S WAUGH
GILCHRIST
Would make runs at times

LEE
would be smashed

GILLESPIE
would be ok but not a force

MCGRATH
would get wickets [as did Lillie but we still lost most times v WI]

WARNE
he would be the trump card and get wickets

Quite simply if Mcgrath/Warne bowled the WI cheap enough then
those great WI bowlers would rise to the occasion and bowl us out for less.

WI would win 4-1 0r 3-2 if WARNE gets big bags of wickets

CRAP

A team with lesser depth can draw a series i.e the 81-82 team (same # of guns (G Chappell/ M Waugh, AB/ S Waugh, K Hughes/ R Ponting, Marsh/Gilchrist, Lillee/McGrath) but the 00-01 having far greater depth at the top of the order and far better bowling depth/quality)

Mate the 00-02 side would more than match the Windies of 1980-85 because solid opening attack (esp LAnger) who can blunt Marshall and Garner.

The Windies of the early 80s also won games on reputation and scare tactics i.e. attack the rib cage they didn't actually bowl people out they wore them out by forcing them into rash shots and or pushing them back and back and back and then pitching the odd one up as surprise.

LAnger, S Waugh and Ponting showed they have the games for fast bowling and the bottle to take it on and wear the odd one or 50.

IMHO The 80-85 Windies would win in Perth and Brisbane but we would win in Sydney (as we always have except for 92-92 and 96-97 (rain), Melbourne and Adelaid the last two because of Warne.

over there they would arguably win 2-1 or 3-1 we are a silly chance of drawing 2-2 but I'd doubt we'd beat them over there.

[smithy]

[am Bays]

I wonder how much time Greig spent polishing his "crrrrush hulmet" before he went out to bat.....

[spell_check]

By the late 80's the Windies were starting to lose their superiority of a decade prior.

Murray Bennett and Bob Holland dominated them 4 years earlier in Sydney; Bruce Yardley took 10 wickets against them in Sydney in 81/82. They loved the bouncy tracks, but their batsmen were vulnerable at the spinning pitches.

[GWW]

By the late 80's the Windies were starting to lose their superiority of a decade prior.

Murray Bennett and Bob Holland dominated them 4 years earlier in Sydney; Bruce Yardley took 10 wickets against them in Sydney in 81/82. They loved the bouncy tracks, but their batsmen were vulnerable at the spinning pitches.

yes they were vulenerable in Sydney but by the same token were more dominant in Perth than what they were vulnerable in Sydney.

[am Bays]

They weren't dominant in Perth they were bloody scarey!!!!!!