King William Road / Sheffield Shield

[The Sleeping Giant]

HOME GAMES

SA 387
QL 465
SA 9/194

WA 434
SA 601
WA 3/202

TA 291
SA 397
TA 7/390 DEC
SA 4/208

SA 6/511 DEC
VIC 309
VI 7/332


AWAY GAMES

SA 222
WA 230
SA 326
WA 210

VI 118
SA 343
VI 404
SA 3/183

NS 373
SA 426
NS 148
SA 4/100

SA 403
QL 135
SA 6/202 DEC
QL 5/471

ADELAIDE OVAL GAMES
106 WKTS
4721 RUNS
44.53 AVE PER WICKET

AWAY GAMES
140 WKTS
4294 RUNS
35.28 AVE PER WKT

The remarkable games were WA V SA games
40/988 in Perth
The very next game
23/1237 Adelaide

Aware that this year there have been 3 drawn games at AO. Are you taking into account things like players available, the weather (hot summer = drier pitch + dry air = tough bowling conditions) and drop in pitch? Blaming the pitch for SA woes is a cop out in my opinion. How do explain SA having the lowest drawn game percentage and highest loss percentage?

I have to put this disclaimer in. Not having ago at you personally mal. Just putting forward my opinion that there are more factors than the pitch for SA having limited success for decades.

[mal]

I always thought the Adelaide Oval wicket was one of the most even in world cricket. Bit in it for the quicks early, nice for batting after, then spinners get some help later on.

Mal, you forgot that they are also drop in pitches now.

Sleepy. you forgot , we are discussing 4 day Sheffield Shield pitches

[The Sleeping Giant]

Cool story bro, but how do explain South Australia having the lowest percentage of drawn Sheffield Shield matches of the 6 states in history?

How do you explain South Australia having the highest losing percentage of Sheffield Shield games of the 6 states in history?

Part of the possible explanation [apart from very recent times]
Our batsman bat on featherbeds and accumulate lots of easy runs on KW Road
There is more seam movement on some other decks , our batsman find it hard at times to adjust
Its easier for batters from interstate to adjust to Adelaide Oval

I agree with this mal.

I think the main reason for our lack of success is mainly due to not producing good enough cricketers.

[The Sleeping Giant]

I always thought the Adelaide Oval wicket was one of the most even in world cricket. Bit in it for the quicks early, nice for batting after, then spinners get some help later on.

Mal, you forgot that they are also drop in pitches now.

Sleepy. you forgot , we are discussing 4 day Sheffield Shield pitches

I haven't mentioned test cricket have I?

[mal]

HOME GAMES

SA 387
QL 465
SA 9/194

WA 434
SA 601
WA 3/202

TA 291
SA 397
TA 7/390 DEC
SA 4/208

SA 6/511 DEC
VIC 309
VI 7/332


AWAY GAMES

SA 222
WA 230
SA 326
WA 210

VI 118
SA 343
VI 404
SA 3/183

NS 373
SA 426
NS 148
SA 4/100

SA 403
QL 135
SA 6/202 DEC
QL 5/471

ADELAIDE OVAL GAMES
106 WKTS
4721 RUNS
44.53 AVE PER WICKET

AWAY GAMES
140 WKTS
4294 RUNS
35.28 AVE PER WKT

The remarkable games were WA V SA games
40/988 in Perth
The very next game
23/1237 Adelaide

Aware that this year there have been 3 drawn games at AO. Are you taking into account things like players available, the weather (hot summer = drier pitch + dry air = tough bowling conditions) and drop in pitch? Blaming the pitch for SA woes is a cop out in my opinion. How do explain SA having the lowest drawn game percentage and highest loss percentage?

I have to put this disclaimer in. Not having ago at you personally mal. Just putting forward my opinion that there are more factors than the pitch for SA having limited success for decades.

SA has less population than VI +_ NSW
That already makes it harder to compete against those 2 teams ?

SA overall record is poor because we generally have inferior teams as a rule over a long period of time?

SA has a inferior infrastructure to other states ?


Could be a lot if things
But its the lack of talent that might be the biggest prob

HOWEVER
The thread is to do with :
The SA team has a disadvantage , on most other states playing on flat decks

[mal]

I always thought the Adelaide Oval wicket was one of the most even in world cricket. Bit in it for the quicks early, nice for batting after, then spinners get some help later on.

Mal, you forgot that they are also drop in pitches now.

Sleepy. you forgot , we are discussing 4 day Sheffield Shield pitches

I haven't mentioned test cricket have I?

You didn't have to
You are describing a 5 day Test match pitch
The decks I've seen in the SS games over a long period of time are different
SS decks are nice and flat , easy to bat on, and not much assistance to any bowlers, too often
Either that or its a coincidence that sides bat well at the venue

[The Sleeping Giant]

Fair enough.

I'm saying SA isn't disadvantaged by the pitch.

Pitch is the same for both sides. SA has the worst shield record in the history of the game.

[mal]

Fair enough.

I'm saying SA isn't disadvantaged by the pitch.

Pitch is the same for both sides. SA has the worst shield record in the history of the game.

Think Think Think
YES the pitch is the same for both sides
Both sides bat well at Adelaide oval
Whats does this mean ?
Harder to get 6 point results


LAST SEASON
LOOK at the results in Tasmania last season
Both sides batted on a crapp pitch in the games in Tassie
Bowlers dominate from both sides
Easier to get 6 point games

I cant make this any clearer

[The Sleeping Giant]

Neither can I mal. Neither can I.

Shall we call it a draw?

[mal]

Here is a snippet written about 100 years ago
The title was headed Adelaide Pitch against the Sydney pitch

Such Adelaide Oval wickets made it impossible for bowlers to make the ball bite and making run getting easier
SA batsmen nurtured on these decks are disadvantaged when they play on the Sydney pitch
The Sydney pitch covered in short grass finds the ball nipping back from the pitch
SA batsmen were at a disadvantage and more than once has a strong SA eleven ''curled up"" on the Sydney Ground

This was documented in the early 1900's

[The Sleeping Giant]

No draw then?

SA making excuses for over 100 years.

Two of the draws at Adelaide Oval this season have gone right down to the last session. If SA were a bit more talented or a bit more adventurous, they might have won these games.

[mal]

Neither can I mal. Neither can I.

Shall we call it a draw?

How about this

A: SA players have had less talent than most opponents most of the time in SS history
B: SA is at some to considerable disadvantage playing on a batters deck, compared to other states
C: We are both attacking posters, we don't play for draws , both continue for a result !

[The Sleeping Giant]

LOL.

All of the above.

I do know you are passionate about your redbacks. Being a North Adelaide supporter, I understand your frustration.

Here is a couple of questions for you.

Would you like to see Shield games at AO last for 2 1/2 days?

Would you like to see a more attacking captain (like Hookesy) in charge?

[mal]

Yes I would rather see 2.5 day results than 2 point games
As for attacking captains yes , but Botha is doing a good job as well

[The Sleeping Giant]

Yes I would rather see 2.5 day results than 2 point games

Sorry. Silly question. Forgot you like T20.

Thats fair enough. I like games that go right down to the wire.

[Grahaml]

Would you like to see a more attacking captain (like Hookesy) in charge?

Hookesy was definitely attacking but he loved his flat AO decks.

[Grahaml]

For me the criticism of the pitch isn't regarding how many results it gets but that it's too good for batting early. Not great test match cricket when it's 3 days when you can't bowl, 1 day or a decent contest and a final day where you can't bat on it. I want a decent contest between bat and ball for 5 days. Maybe first morning a little harder for batting, then a little easier and better for spinners later on but at all times, good batsmen should be able to make runs, seamers should be able to get some movement and spinners should have something too.

Any stats on day 1 stumps scores would probably be a far better indication of the point than a win/loss/draw stat.

[scoob]

I blame Chuck... SACK HIM FFS!!!!!

[Ecky]

Cool story bro, but how do explain South Australia having the lowest percentage of drawn Sheffield Shield matches of the 6 states in history?

How do you explain South Australia having the highest losing percentage of Sheffield Shield games of the 6 states in history?

you have given a big insight into the answer of the first question with the second.

Looking at the % of drawn matches in a state's history is an almost meaningless statistic in itself, as this is influenced by the ability of the teams participating and the overall change in the % of drawn matches in different eras which is relevant as different states have been in the competition for different periods.

What Mal is trying to quantify is the chance that a pitch will produce a draw in a match in this era with all other factors (eg ability of the teams, attacking nature of captains etc.) being equal. This obviously has an effect on the chance of a team winning the Shield under the current points system.

You are confusing things by introducing other factors which may be very interesting but are irrelevant to the particular debate that Mal wants to have! (I think!)

[Stumps]

Yes the pitch is flat. Which is why we shouldn't have enforce the follow on. With vic having something to chase there was always more chance of getting the 20 wkts. Who cares if they won outright
Thought it was a Bad decision at the time and was proven