when do we start preparing for 2009

[GetTheSherrin]

Have to agree with dutchy on this REB, having a quality leggie is much more effective than an offie. bailey may not be there yet but i believe that when warne retires* he should be ready. warne himself has said that bailey is awesome.

im not convinced that c.white will spend too much time in an aussie jumper.

how is s.katich going and b.hodge, seem like the forgotten men in aus. at the mome. whats their chances of a come back??

* quick note on warnes retirement. has anyone else noticed how he mentioned retiring in pretty much every time he's been spoken to on camera. could he retire earlier than we think, hope not..

[power01]

I think come 2009 we will face a very similar English side that came out this year:

Strauss - copped a couple of shocking decisions, but will still be around
Cook - looks the goods, and will have a fine career
Bell - Sherminator is getting better all the time
Pietersen - superstar
Collingwood - like Tassie said, someone Pietersen/Flintoff can bat around
Flintoff - twice the player at home than he is overseas
G. Jones/Read - don't know who will be the keeper come 2009
S. Jones - will play if 100% fit
Hoggard - England's Glenn McGrath (nowhere near the same league, but consistent nevertheless)
Harmison - see Flintoff
Panesar - will be the best spinner England has ever had


As for Australia, I honestly have no idea who will be around in 2009. What I do know is that at least three will definitely be there: Ponting, Hussey & Clarke.

Gee some big calls there Pietersen - superstar, no way not yet, no doubt very much a quality player and an enormous future but hardly a Superstar yet...........Panesar - will be the best spinner England has ever had, another huge call way to early to make statements like that.....sure he looks good but to say the best ever way way to early........

[blink]

Gee some big calls there Pietersen - superstar, no way not yet, no doubt very much a quality player and an enormous future but hardly a Superstar yet...........Panesar - will be the best spinner England has ever had, another huge call way to early to make statements like that.....sure he looks good but to say the best ever way way to early........

Not that big power01! By 2009 Pietersen will be a superstar, no doubt.

As for Monty - he has played 11 tests and taken 40 wickets so far in his career. England's top spinner in terms of number of wickets is Jim Laker, who finished with 193 wickets from 46 tests. I think it is safe to say that by the time Monty is done, he would have taken more than that!

[power01]

Gee some big calls there Pietersen - superstar, no way not yet, no doubt very much a quality player and an enormous future but hardly a Superstar yet...........Panesar - will be the best spinner England has ever had, another huge call way to early to make statements like that.....sure he looks good but to say the best ever way way to early........

Not that big power01! By 2009 Pietersen will be a superstar, no doubt.

As for Monty - he has played 11 tests and taken 40 wickets so far in his career. England's top spinner in terms of number of wickets is Jim Laker, who finished with 193 wickets from 46 tests. I think it is safe to say that by the time Monty is done, he would have taken more than that!

Sure You'll find Underwood took close to 300 wickets....................

[scoob]

RR Do I think 2009 is a lost cause? Not on your life but as Dutchy said England have a relatively young side so most of thier players will be going around again in 2009 if not in the side on the fringes putting pressure on the blokes in the side.

2005 showed that players like Harmy, Hoggard and Flintoff are much more effective on their home soil compared to here and chuck in S Jones and Panasar and they have a quality attack that can take 20 Australain wickets, compared to out here.

Strauss has copped a few stinkers this series, (like Katich and Martyn did in 2005), Cook can play, Bell is getting better Collingwood is someone they can bat around and Flintoff is capaable of coming in and smashing quick runs like we saw yesterday and at Edgebaston in 2005 which wihilst not consistant test match batting in 2 hours he can set up a test match win like Gilchrist dd on Saturday night.

We have to find replacements for Langer, Hayden, McGrath and Gilchrist and to a lesser extent (as they might still be on the scene) Warne and Lee, up to six replacements required it is un-likely that all six repalcements will come in and hit their straps straight away like Hussey has.

So we have the ability and talent to win but until we see how the likes of Jaques, North, Paine, Rodgers, Birt, Johnson, White, Bailey, Cosgrove et al perform CONSISTANTLY at the top level there has to be a question mark over us.

Gee how did we win the ashes 3-0???? You make them sounds like the invincibles, remember they did only scrap home over there last time. Replacements needed for langer, mcgrath, and maybe gilchrist...rest will play on...work out peiterson and we retain the ashes!

By the way, whoever goes next time they will never be as complacent as the 2005 squad was ever again...dont know what you are all worrying about!

[Adelaide Hawk]

Gee some big calls there Pietersen - superstar, no way not yet, no doubt very much a quality player and an enormous future but hardly a Superstar yet...........Panesar - will be the best spinner England has ever had, another huge call way to early to make statements like that.....sure he looks good but to say the best ever way way to early........

Not that big power01! By 2009 Pietersen will be a superstar, no doubt.

As for Monty - he has played 11 tests and taken 40 wickets so far in his career. England's top spinner in terms of number of wickets is Jim Laker, who finished with 193 wickets from 46 tests. I think it is safe to say that by the time Monty is done, he would have taken more than that!

Sure You'll find Underwood took close to 300 wickets....................

297 in fact. I guess some people don't classify him as a true spinner.

[blink]

Officially his style was slow medium.

[am Bays]

Gee how did we win the ashes 3-0???? You make them sounds like the invincibles, remember they did only scrap home over there last time. Replacements needed for langer, mcgrath, and maybe gilchrist...rest will play on...work out peiterson and we retain the ashes!

By the way, whoever goes next time they will never be as complacent as the 2005 squad was ever again...dont know what you are all worrying about!

Good point about compalcency Scoob, my points centre around the fact that the Commonwealth invitational XI are a better side on English soil, their players aren't bad and have performed on the big stage, ours (apart from Ponting, Hussey, Clarke, Clark, Warne and Lee) havent yet...

I feel confident that we have the players that can win the ASHES but it takes time to learn how to play test cricket in most cases half our side may not have learnt that by July 2009.

[Rik E Boy]

Sure You'll find Underwood took close to 300 wickets....................

Good call poower. Yep, 'deadly' Derek took 297 wickets at 25.83 in his test career. However, since Bodyline (to keep up the statistical theme from another thread), the following English spin bowlers had a better bowling and batting average (Underwood's batting average was only 11) than Underwood.


Headley Verity 144 wickets at 24.37
Jim Laker 193 wickets at 21.24
Tony Lock 174 wickets at 25.58

They play a lot more tests these days than when those blokes play so the test for Monty will be the bowling average..his aggregate will only ever be measured against Murali and Warne. Interesting to note that Underwood flogs contemporaries Fred Titmus, John Emburey and Phil Edmonds and the less said about Such, Croft, Giles and that idiot Tuffnel the better.

Still..go green you Pommy gits...Grimmett, O'Rielly, Benaud, Mallett, Warne. Game over.

regards,

REB

[Rik E Boy]

Officially his style was slow medium.

Cricinfo seems to have a bob each way on this. I have seen him play and even though he was quicker than your average spinner, I would still classify him as a spin bowler, but that is just my view.

regards,

REB

[giffo]

Why worry about spinners. I'd love a replica 70/80's Windies lineup with 5 quicks. No stuffing about, just blast 'em out!

[blink]

Cricinfo seems to have a bob each way on this. I have seen him play and even though he was quicker than your average spinner, I would still classify him as a spin bowler, but that is just my view.

regards,

REB

Having never seen Underwood play (he played his last test & ODI in '82 - over 3 years before I was born) I will take your word for it REB!

As for my call on Monty, I should have said he has the capacity to be England's greatest spin bowler, instead of will be.

I still stand by what I said about Pietersen, he is already a superstar.

[Rik E Boy]

Why worry about spinners. I'd love a replica 70/80's Windies lineup with 5 quicks. No stuffing about, just blast 'em out!

I see the subtlety of the great game is lost on some

regards,

REB

[power01]

Why worry about spinners. I'd love a replica 70/80's Windies lineup with 5 quicks. No stuffing about, just blast 'em out!

I see the subtlety of the great game is lost on some

regards,

REB

Very True REB......but in this case it proved to be a lethal bowling combination...............Still fondly Remember seeing Garner, Holding, Roberts, Marshall, Croft etc etc and to say they where intimidating to batsmens would be and understatement.....Still Love the Big Bird!!!....Legend......

[Dutchy]

Why worry about spinners. I'd love a replica 70/80's Windies lineup with 5 quicks. No stuffing about, just blast 'em out!

I see the subtlety of the great game is lost on some

regards,

REB

Very True REB......but in this case it proved to be a lethal bowling combination...............Still fondly Remember seeing Garner, Holding, Roberts, Marshall, Croft etc etc and to say they where intimidating to batsmens would be and understatement.....Still Love the Big Bird!!!....Legend......

once off never to be seen again...

[Rik E Boy]

Funny, I thought they only ever had four quicks in the one side, not five.

regards,

REB

[Adelaide Hawk]

Have to agree with dutchy on this REB, having a quality leggie is much more effective than an offie. bailey may not be there yet but i believe that when warne retires* he should be ready. warne himself has said that bailey is awesome.

im not convinced that c.white will spend too much time in an aussie jumper.

how is s.katich going and b.hodge, seem like the forgotten men in aus. at the mome. whats their chances of a come back??

* quick note on warnes retirement. has anyone else noticed how he mentioned retiring in pretty much every time he's been spoken to on camera. could he retire earlier than we think, hope not..

Simon O'Donnell is trying to spread this stupidity of Warne announcing his retirement after his 700th Test wicket at the MCG. Then straight after that Warne stated he wanted to be part of an Australian team that defeated England 5-0. I think SOD's way off the mark with this one.

On Cullen Bailey, I have been predicting a Test cap for him since I first saw him bowl about 4 years ago. With a little more 1st class experience under his belt he's going to be a class leggie.

As for C.White, could play a lot of Test cricket if he gives away the Vic captaincy, tosses his bowling in the bin where all garbage belongs, and concentrates on his batting. That is one area where he is very good. As a leggie, forget it. The reason for the captaincy remark is he has a tendency to bat himself too low in the order. He needs to bat 4 and make big 100s if he's to force his way into the Aussie team.

[Adelaide Hawk]

Tony Lock 174 wickets at 25.58

Lucky to get that many considering his action. Not as bad as Murali, so today he would be legal, but back in the 50s he was a dead set chucker. He did manage to re-model his action later on and by the time he came to play with WA his action was quite good.

[power01]

Just on the West Indies............What a line-up...70's - 80's.........I loved watched these guys, the Kings of Cool and Great Cricketers to boot.........only thing the buggers always beat us!!!!!!!...


Colin Croft, Joel Garner, Larry Gomes, Gordon Greenidge, Desmond Haynes, Michael Holding, Alvin Kallicharran, Malcolm Marshall, Viv Richards, Andy Roberts, Lawrence Rowe, Clive LLoyd





What a bowling attack......what do they say no retreat no surrender!!!........imagine facing these guys!!!

ps: hard to compare different era and all but wonder how they would go against the current Aussie Team??????, Million Dollar Question?

[Rik E Boy]

I reckon they'd flog our ar5e. Bowling attacks the world over where a lot better than what gets served up today. While we would be able to restrict their batting stars their attack would smash our batsmen.

regards,

REB