SA Footy

With the opening of another Best XI thread, it was inevitable that the name Muttiah Muralitharan would eventually cop a mention, and the first response was this:

Rik E Boy wrote:As for putting in the chucker you reckon that's cricket but I don't. Richards is the spinner in my world XI.

regards,

REB

So the question is there. Does Muralitharan, a man whose name sits at the top of the Test wicket takers list, deserve to be considered amongst a list of players for the safooty.net Best XI?
133 Test matches saw him scalp 800 wickets exactly. The next best is the other man vying for the position of spinner in this hypothetical team, Shane Keith Warne.
My thoughts personally, which won't be liked by all, are that Muttiah Muralitharan was called, by both Darrel Hair and Ross Emerson, for throwing. When Muralitharan was tested biomechanically, it was found that he did not have an illegal action.
Warne on the other hand was found guilty, and suspended for, banned substance use.
One guy was found to pass all Tests, and is called a cheat, a chucker, and generally most think his record should have an asterisk next to it. The other was banned for drug use. He is apparently the best spinner ever.

On the other argument, a purely statistical one, Muralitharan was, as a player from the sub continent, given more overs to ply his craft on spin suited, spinning decks, in Galle, Hyderabad, Calcutta and many more. Warne was not, and his impressive record has a noticeable blow out against India.
Muralitharan snared 89 wickets (11 matches), 105 wickets (22 matches), 80 wickets (16 matches), and 87 wickets (14 matches), against Bangladesh, India, Pakistan and Sri Lanka respectively.
Of 800 wickets, 176 alone between the minnows of Bangladesh and India, Warne loses just 17 of his 708 wickets to the minnows.
Murali 624 wickets versus 691 Warne wickets.

This is without delving into the statistic of Home tests against other nations on the dust bowls, either.

I think Warne is better justified to be in the World XI if one is done, but not because Muralitharan is a dodgy thrower, because Warne performed better, IMO.

Thoughts?

Media Park wrote:With the opening of another Best XI thread, it was inevitable that the name Muttiah Muralitharan would eventually cop a mention, and the first response was this:

Rik E Boy wrote:As for putting in the chucker you reckon that's cricket but I don't. Richards is the spinner in my world XI.

regards,

REB

So the question is there. Does Muralitharan, a man whose name sits at the top of the Test wicket takers list, deserve to be considered amongst a list of players for the safooty.net Best XI?
133 Test matches saw him scalp 800 wickets exactly. The next best is the other man vying for the position of spinner in this hypothetical team, Shane Keith Warne.
My thoughts personally, which won't be liked by all, are that Muttiah Muralitharan was called, by both Darrel Hair and Ross Emerson, for throwing. When Muralitharan was tested biomechanically, it was found that he did not have an illegal action.
Warne on the other hand was found guilty, and suspended for, banned substance use.
One guy was found to pass all Tests, and is called a cheat, a chucker, and generally most think his record should have an asterisk next to it. The other was banned for drug use. He is apparently the best spinner ever.

On the other argument, a purely statistical one, Muralitharan was, as a player from the sub continent, given more overs to ply his craft on spin suited, spinning decks, in Galle, Hyderabad, Calcutta and many more. Warne was not, and his impressive record has a noticeable blow out against India.
Muralitharan snared 89 wickets (11 matches), 105 wickets (22 matches), 80 wickets (16 matches), and 87 wickets (14 matches), against Bangladesh, India, Pakistan and Sri Lanka respectively.
Of 800 wickets, 176 alone between the minnows of Bangladesh and India, Warne loses just 17 of his 708 wickets to the minnows.
Murali 624 wickets versus 691 Warne wickets.

This is without delving into the statistic of Home tests against other nations on the dust bowls, either.

I think Warne is better justified to be in the World XI if one is done, but not because Muralitharan is a dodgy thrower, because Warne performed better, IMO.

Thoughts?

MP, interesting thoughts. You omit to mention that the Sub continent ganged up on the rest of the cricketing world and had the rule changed from straight arm to 15 degree bend, I would think mainly to accomodate Murali, but they had a fair swag of bent arms on the sub continent. Plus can anyone convince me that Botha does not chuck it, no way. Probably goes without saying that SKW mastered the more difficult art of leg spin, rather than the easier control of the off spinner, have you ever noticed that most keepers bowl off spin, must be easy.

No-one gifts wickets and to get 800 against anyone with international ability is still a massive effort.
Murali always had his skeptics hounding him hence he would be under pressure every delivery of his career.
Warney was amazing and a cult hero to many (including myself), but murali edges him IMO

Groover wrote:No-one gifts wickets and to get 800 against anyone with international ability is still a massive effort.
Murali always had his skeptics hounding him hence he would be under pressure every delivery of his career.
Warney was amazing and a cult hero to many (including myself), but murali edges him IMO

Interesting to hear anyone from Aus placing him in front of SKW. Big call, not sure I would say that in the front bar of the Brahma Lodge Hotel though.

Warne bowls. End of story.

regards,

REB

Murali is a chucker. Needs an asterisk next to his "bowling" stats.

Completely forgetting the debate regarding murali's action.

MP, your stats for both bowlers speak volumes of the talent of both players.

Murali relished the opportunity of bowling 50 over innings to snare his wickets, and the sub continent was kind to murali, given the experience he generated bowling on sub continent decks growing up.

I only rate warne higher due to his ability to achieve remarkable results bowling in traditionally seam-friendly conditions. Never saw murali snare 40 wickets in a series against england. I thought watching both players, something was always going to happen, but warne just managed to swing unwinnable games in favour of australia more so than murali (most likely as batsman knew playing SL that see out murali, runs will come at the other end, against warne/mcgrath and warne/lee, you didnt have that luxury and warne just worked them over in the end.

Groover wrote:No-one gifts wickets and to get 800 against anyone with international ability is still a massive effort.
Murali always had his skeptics hounding him hence he would be under pressure every delivery of his career.
Warney was amazing and a cult hero to many (including myself), but murali edges him IMO

Just because use have the same action

The blokes a chucker end of thread!

Rik E Boy wrote:Warne bowls. End of story.

regards,

REB

Murli was deemed a bowler, only after they changed the rules to suit his action.
Then he goes and bowls a doosra which is banned and deemed illegal.

Warne all the way for me.

he probably wouldnt make an Xl picked by australians, but i would be interested to see an international poll as to who was the better bowler

Media Park wrote:With the opening of another Best XI thread, it was inevitable that the name Muttiah Muralitharan would eventually cop a mention, and the first response was this:

Rik E Boy wrote:As for putting in the chucker you reckon that's cricket but I don't. Richards is the spinner in my world XI.

regards,

REB

Muralitharan snared 89 wickets (11 matches), 105 wickets (22 matches), 80 wickets (16 matches), and 87 wickets (14 matches), against Bangladesh, India, Pakistan and Sri Lanka respectively.


Thoughts?

Murali took 87 wickets against Sri Lanka? Surely that in itself should raise some questions?
Anyway, he is a chucker...

The best chucker the world will ever see ... truely hair raising

Lmao beefy

Mr Beefy wrote:

Media Park wrote:With the opening of another Best XI thread, it was inevitable that the name Muttiah Muralitharan would eventually cop a mention, and the first response was this:

Rik E Boy wrote:As for putting in the chucker you reckon that's cricket but I don't. Richards is the spinner in my world XI.

regards,

REB

Muralitharan snared 89 wickets (11 matches), 105 wickets (22 matches), 80 wickets (16 matches), and 87 wickets (14 matches), against Bangladesh, India, Pakistan and Sri Lanka respectively.


Thoughts?

Murali took 87 wickets against Sri Lanka? Surely that in itself should raise some questions?
Anyway, he is a chucker...

Sorry mate! Zimbabwe!

I can only see advantages for the quicker bowlers with a bent arm action to gain more pace, Murali didn't do this, he has taken the most test wickets, end of story.

The rules regarding the number of ° a bowlers arm is allowed to flex was changed to accomdate Murali and ensure there was no sub-continent melt down that would have transpired if he had been banned.

So long as people like me and REB tell our children about Murali and what actually happened and in turn their children ( all things going well ) then those who did not get to witness him in action will always be dubious about his record. As TSG stated, an * should adorn his record.

Warne was and still is the best spin bowler the world has ever seen.

He has certainly left a legacy...all the kids growing up on the sub-continent now bowl spin with a bent arm.

Booney wrote:The rules regarding the number of ° a bowlers arm is allowed to flex was changed to accomdate Murali and ensure there was no sub-continent melt down that would have transpired if he had been banned.

So long as people like me and REB tell our children about Murali and what actually happened and in turn their children ( all things going well ) then those who did not get to witness him in action will always be dubious about his record. As TSG stated, an * should adorn his record.

Warne was and still is the best spin bowler the world has ever seen.

What Booney said - cheating chucker

Quichey wrote:He has certainly left a legacy...all the kids growing up on the sub-continent now bowl spin with a bent arm.

And us aussies watch cricket with a bent arm.

Murali bowled with a bent arm, in other words chucked it in order to get more speed through the air. If he didnt throw it his air speed would have been only about 60 km/h. You could spin it a metre but at that pace all batsman would have come down the track and plonked him over his head.
The rule was relaxed to appease the sub-continents accusations that he was being discriminated against on racial grounds.(utter crap imo as he threw it!).This rule has allowed blokes like Botha to chuck it as well and how he hasnt been banned is beyond me.

Warne changed cricket for the better, a bit like the Windies whole team in the 80's. He made it exciting to watch the battle between bat and ball like no other. Took some brilliant catches, made important runs, and added some personality to a very stagnant game at the time. Along with that one of the nicest blokes i've ever met.

So its a no-brainer! He's the best spin bowler ever. He will be in ALL world XI's like Bradman for ever.