Banning of Jumps Racing

[CK]

Before I start, in no way, shape or form do I advocate any form of cruelty to animals. I find it very hard to watch when a horse is injured or killed in racing (or indeed, any animal dying at all). I posted it in the "Other Sports" forum, rather than the Gambling Forum, because its looking specifically at the sport itself.

The recent debate over jumps racing, however, is reaching peak proportions and I would be interested to hear the views of sports fans on this one.

My understanding is that a higher number of horses die as a result of competing at eventing/equestrian events than the proportion of runners to deaths in jumping/hurdle/steeple racing. I also understand - and if anyone can refute this, please do so - that the percentage of deaths compared to total runners is actually higher in flat racing than jumps racing.

The biggest concern I have by far, as an animal lover, is that, if jumps racing is banned, then there also ends the chances of horses that are too slow to win on the flat, having a second chance through being able to compete in hurdle racing to increase their chances of paying the bills for owners. With high costs of feed, vet bills agistment etc, then many owners will simply not be able to afford to keep their horses, once the horse's ability to return dividends to the owners is reduced.

Put simply - there is a very real and genuine likelihood that banning jumps racing will increase the number of horse deaths massively; because people will choose not to keep their horses and then send them to the knackery/doggers (think back to a horse like River Amos, bought for $300 from the knackers, and winning the Great Eastern Steeple). It seems very strange that the number of animal activists who are actively protesting for the sport's banning, have overlooked this very real and pertinent point.

There is absolutely no doubt that horses DO die in hurdle racing and DO get injured; Clearview Bay and Taken At The Flood are recent examples of this. Their deaths, and that of many others, is tragic and terrible. My real and genuine concern however, is the deaths of horses that are otherwise sound and healthy WILL increase due to people not being able to afford them, pure and simple. Surely this cannot be considered a fair alternative? Is there also a school of thought that many horses appear (and yes, we do not know what they are thinking) to thrive on hurdle racing and appear to enjoy it?

Again - I love animals dearly and the thought of them dying is awful. So is the thought of many, many more dying as a result of this knee jerk reaction of late.

What are your thoughts?

[FlyingHigh]

You raise some interesting points there CK about those horses not good enough for normal racing. It is something I hadn't considered, because, whilst I'm not usually one to side with any of the do-gooders, I do now believe it should be banned. This is unfortunate because it will obviously take away from some great traditions such as Oakbank.

[Iron Fist]

There are some very fair points made there, some which i had heard before but still very fair.
Im not a big horse gambler at all but to think that horses are going to die is not good.
Im guessing the animal activists that want to ban it have the idea that these horses will be sold to farmers or people that want to have a horse to ride round??
surely there is to many racing horses for that idea to work??
think of the positives though, at least we will have plenty of glue! (sorry had to say it)

[MagicKiwi]

No animals should be used in sport for our gratification and this is a major step forward to those of us that advocate for the prevention of cruelty to animals both locally and worldwide in all arenas.

[CK]

No animals should be used in sport for our gratification and this is a major step forward to those of us that advocate for the prevention of cruelty to animals both locally and worldwide in all arenas.

Like I mentioned - I'm not advocating cruelty whatsoever, MK - but it DOES concern me deeply that as a result of this decision, MANY more horses MAY die as a result of it.

[heater31]

No animals should be used in sport for our gratification and this is a major step forward to those of us that advocate for the prevention of cruelty to animals both locally and worldwide in all arenas.

Like I mentioned - I'm not advocating cruelty whatsoever, MK - but it DOES concern me deeply that as a result of this decision, MANY more horses MAY die as a result of it.

That is my only concern too that they will die far more inhumanely in the back paddock of a farm somewhere at least if they are racing then it has more rules and regs to control it

[bayman]

No animals should be used in sport for our gratification and this is a major step forward to those of us that advocate for the prevention of cruelty to animals both locally and worldwide in all arenas.

i agree with the dancing bears we've seen on tv & the like, I'll possibly agree with circus' even though the circus will have aniMALs well looked after & fed but as for racing horses (or dogs) these athletes are well looked after, kept fit, fed with the best food going (yet people in the world are starving)

i believe & some trainers i know have said the same thing it is the new so called safety obstacles that are the problem because before the new jumps the horses when schooled would jump but they've learnt that today all they have to do is skim through the jump rather than jumping which leads the horse to not respect the jump & make a mistake

are you going to ban aintree ?

these horses (thoroughbreds) would in time become extinct because breeders wouldn't breed from them if you banned all racing

did you know if a horse doesn't want to run & or jump IT WONT

are we going to ban trot races as well because 2 local pacers got injured recently while in trackwork & had to be HUMANELY PUT TO SLEEP ( these two horses magic technique & cleverlator) didn't jump a hurdle)

are you going to ban other equestrian sports like showjumping which is an olympic sport

NO MK, LETS ALL PUT PEOPLE OUT OF WORK & WORK THAT MOST LOVE DOING, THEN THEY'LL BE ON THE DOLE & YOU & I WILL BE PAYING MORE TAX TO START WITH

if this comes in i'm going to invest in an abbatoirs business because they'll be making a fortune

GET IN THE REAL WORLD FFS

[bayman]

BTW IN TROTS THERE IS A WHIP PAD SO WHEN YOU SEE A DRIVER USING THE WHIP HE/SHE ISN'T ACTUALLY HITTING THE HORSE BUT HITTING A PAD

[Ash59]

I posted the following on the gambling site.

"I'll say straight out - I love the jumping caper. Looking objectively, there's no doubt the risk of injury or death to horses does increase compared to flat racing. However, the question of banning it because of cruelty to animals just doesn't wash with me.

If people are opposed to racing full stop, then that's their opinion and I'm happy for them to have it, even if I don't agree with it. However, I'm not sure I follow the logic associated with the banning of the jumps. Asking a horse to jump is not inherently cruel. Neither is asking them to race. Yes, there is greater risk. But will banning jumping racing increase or decrease the life span of the horses involved?

For my money, there should be some changes. Race only May to August when the tracks are soft. Make the jumps bigger, the races longer and encourage a European style of racing, where they basically hack the first part of the race and the tempo builds. Those horses that can't accelerate at the business end of the race are pulled up."


I notice in the press the president of the jumps association advocates using live hedges, citing that New Zealand has not had a jumping fatality for ten years where hedges are in use. I agree entirely... and I believe steeple jumps should be a minimum of 4 ft 4 ins (132 cm if my maths is right...).

[Dog_ger]

Ban all gambling

[heater31]

It will continue

http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0,22606,25500597-5005962,00.html

[bayman]

Ban all gambling

how would mal pay his bills ?

[Dirko]

Is it my imagination or do the jumps appear much lower then what they used to look like. Almost appears as if the horses just gallop through them instead of pacing, and jumping equestrian style over the old style high ones. Looks as if they just don't jump anymore and hence clip their legs and fall. I could be wrong, but someone in the know would be able to clarify.

BTW, I like Jumps !!

[Ash59]

Just read the news report. What difference will strand barriers make? Can't believe the things they focus on.

[bayman]

Just read the news report. What difference will strand barriers make? Can't believe the things they focus on.

the reasoning is that horses are trained to race out from the barriers stalls where as from a strand start the tempo is/would be slower

(this was according to eric musgrove today 19/5/09 on radiotab, he further stated that there is 21 countries that have jumping races & only australia, new zealand & japan use barrier stalls to start the races)


sjabc, yes they are sMALler & this is a huge problem because as i've mentioned horses are not stupid & although schooled they learn to skim through them rather than jump

[Dirko]

sjabc, yes they are sMALler & this is a huge problem because as i've mentioned horses are not stupid & although schooled they learn to skim through them rather than jump

Thanks Bayman that's what I thought. Well why don't the dickheads make 'em higher, stop jumps to re adjust horses, and continue once the horses have got used to the higher jumps.

[Ash59]

Thanks Bayman,

That makes some sense now that I think about it. However, in many distance races the jockeys snag the horses back after they jump out of the gates so no reason the jumps hoops can't do the same.

Just been watching some replays of Friday's racing from Stratford (on the attheraces website). Four of the seven races were at least 5400 metres. Only 2 or three horses fell and none were hurt.

[MagicKiwi]

NO MK, LETS ALL PUT PEOPLE OUT OF WORK & WORK THAT MOST LOVE DOING, THEN THEY'LL BE ON THE DOLE & YOU & I WILL BE PAYING MORE TAX TO START WITH

if this comes in i'm going to invest in an abbatoirs business because they'll be making a fortune

GET IN THE REAL WORLD FFS

I'd like to show you the real world bayman but it would be wasted on you. ATTANTION: Mods - remind me not to post an opinion that might upset this tool.

[bayman]

NO MK, LETS ALL PUT PEOPLE OUT OF WORK & WORK THAT MOST LOVE DOING, THEN THEY'LL BE ON THE DOLE & YOU & I WILL BE PAYING MORE TAX TO START WITH

if this comes in i'm going to invest in an abbatoirs business because they'll be making a fortune

GET IN THE REAL WORLD FFS

I'd like to show you the real world bayman but it would be wasted on you. ATTANTION: Mods - remind me not to post an opinion that might upset this tool.

i do know a bit about this & you are wrong as a the rent a crowd protesters that were in melbourne recently, i believe there were almost 1,000 jumps participants outside the vrc (some were at work) when the decision to continue was being discussed & 21 protesters showed up.....show me the real world & i'll show you what happens to horses at the abbatoirs (it isn't nice either) & i'd rather be a tool than a blinded bat

[Dutchy]

My first horse I owned broke her leg in a flat race, very sad but thats the nature of racing - well not even racing, it could have done the same thing in the paddock, so not cruel at all

Interesting that when a jumps horse loses its jockey 95% of the time they continue running with the field and jump the hurdles