Lean muscle gain while training for football

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Lean muscle gain while training for football

Postby Alaska » Sat Feb 16, 2013 4:47 pm

Well I need a brand and an online store to buy a supplement for the 22 yo who is working out 5 days a week on weights to bulk up for the start of Footy season. He also runs three nights to keep the endurance up as this is his main weapon. But as he has matured he is now playing CHB and needs some more bulk.

He has just finished a bucket of Extreme Rapid Weight Gainer (vanilla) that seems to have the ingredients that kickinit is talking about.

What is the best value for money bucket for this boy to buy?
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Re: Duromine vs Professional athlete

Postby Q. » Sat Feb 16, 2013 5:57 pm

Alaska wrote:Well I need a brand and an online store to buy a supplement for the 22 yo who is working out 5 days a week on weights to bulk up for the start of Footy season. He also runs three nights to keep the endurance up as this is his main weapon. But as he has matured he is now playing CHB and needs some more bulk.

He has just finished a bucket of Extreme Rapid Weight Gainer (vanilla) that seems to have the ingredients that kickinit is talking about.

What is the best value for money bucket for this boy to buy?


Firstly, if he wants to gain muscle he needs to eat 250-500 calories over his daily maintenance while doing weights. On the days he does both weights and cardio (footy training) he's going to need to eat more than that (500-750)

Secondly, the weight gainer he's using is filled with sugars like Dextrose Monohydrate too boost the calories per serve. You are basically paying over $100 a tub for powder that is half sugar. Dextrose Monohydrate can be bought for about $5 a kilo or less.

Honestly, he should find his calories from food. Meaty pastas, meaty curries, sandwiches filled with tuna and avocado, even ice cream on those days where he does weights and trains for footy. Just feed the boy some solid meals.

I do recommend he use a protein shake, just a simple Whey Protein Concentrate (WPC) to hit help hit his protein requirement for the day. Perhaps one before breakfast and another before dinner. The timing isn't important - he doesn't need to have one after a workout as there is no such thing as a 'timing window', it's a myth. All that matters is that he gets his XXXX required calories in from the time he wakes to when his head hits the pillow. If he wants carbs in that shake then Powdered Oats mixes well with the WPC.

I highly recommend the Bulk Nutrients range as they use high quality, high purity ingredients and they're Australian. Banana WPC is my favourite, and I occasionally switch to Strawberry for a change but not often.

One more point. It's about eight weeks until Round 1. If his weights routine is excellent and his diet is good, then he might be able to gain about 2kg of muscle in that time. Anything more and it's just fat. I recommend he incorporates as much compound lifting (preferably heavy with low repetitions) - like bench press, squats, deadlifts or rackpulls, military press, pull ups - into his routine as they will help with his strength as well. He hasn't got a lot of time to gain muscle, but he could feasibly get his bench press up to bodyweight and his squat and deadlift near 1.5 x bodyweight, which is a reasonable strength for a young footballer.

Happy to answer any more questions.
Last edited by Q. on Sun Feb 17, 2013 3:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Duromine vs Professional athlete

Postby Squids » Sat Feb 16, 2013 6:33 pm

I thought you couldn't gain muscle when you still do cardio?

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Re: Duromine vs Professional athlete

Postby Q. » Sat Feb 16, 2013 7:52 pm

Squids wrote:I thought you couldn't gain muscle when you still do cardio?

srs question


You just need to adjust calorie intake for the increased output.
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Re: Duromine vs Professional athlete

Postby am Bays » Sat Feb 16, 2013 7:52 pm

Squids wrote:I thought you couldn't gain muscle when you still do cardio?

srs question


Concurrent training, how all athletic conditioners across the world in sports balance muscle mass/strength gains with aerobic power development in a single preaparation period.

In a nutshell, yes you can gain muscle when you do aerobic exercise you just don't get as much muscle mass gain as you would if you concentrate solely on weight training
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Re: Duromine vs Professional athlete

Postby Q. » Sat Feb 16, 2013 7:58 pm

am Bays wrote:In a nutshell, yes you can gain muscle when you do aerobic exercise you just don't get as much muscle mass gain as you would if you concentrate solely on weight training


This is because it's easy to judge required calories when you're just weight training. Hard to measure the calorie output of football training, so you probably end up not eating enough.

On days (like today for instance) where I do one session of intense cardio then a later session of weights training, I tend to eat whatever and as much as I can - Burger Foundry come at me!
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Re: Duromine vs Professional athlete

Postby am Bays » Sat Feb 16, 2013 8:05 pm

Q. wrote:
am Bays wrote:In a nutshell, yes you can gain muscle when you do aerobic exercise you just don't get as much muscle mass gain as you would if you concentrate solely on weight training


This is because it's easy to judge required calories when you're just weight training. Hard to measure the calorie output of football training, so you probably end up not eating enough.

On days (like today for instance) where I do one session of intense cardio then a later session of weights training, I tend to eat whatever and as much as I can - Burger Foundry come at me!


That too but at the elite level they eat enough, it's primarily due to fatigue and the inability to train at the same intensity (do the same amount of work) when you focus on one particular mode of physical activity.
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Re: Lean muscle gain while training for football

Postby whufc » Sat Feb 16, 2013 9:15 pm

Is it fair to say to build any muscle you need to be getting a basic ratio of eg

80kg person needs about 160g of protein a day

100kg person needs about 200g of protein a dY
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Re: Lean muscle gain while training for football

Postby am Bays » Sat Feb 16, 2013 9:41 pm

whufc wrote:Is it fair to say to build any muscle you need to be getting a basic ratio of eg

80kg person needs about 160g of protein a day

100kg person needs about 200g of protein a dY


That's 2.0 g of protein per Kg per day!!! I would suggest that is what is recommended by supplement companies so people dose up on their product. A fair portion of the nitrogen injested in that protein intake found fnds it way into St Vincent' Gulf

Actual studies suggest it is what is recommended is more like 1.3 to 1.8 g/kg of body mass e.g. Kreider RB,Miriel V, Bertun E (1993). Amino acid supplementation and exerciseperformance: proposed ergogenic value. Sports Medicine 16,190-209

East German studies in the 1980s showed that even with an average daily protein intake 0.8-1.0 g/kg in their weightlifters they still pissed a lot of down the toilet. However that could be due to the fact that in a mass limited sport (weight categories) muscle mass increase isn't necessarily what is important, it is their power

Sports Medicine is arguably the best review journal in the world and is highly reputable. The only journal that compares with it IMO is Exercise and Sports Science Reviews by the American College of Sports Medicine.

My opinion on these being the two best journals to read on any supject matter relating to sports nutrition, sports science, exercise prescription, biomechanics and sports injuries is verified here: http://sportsci.org/index.html.

Sports medicine also has a couple of good review articles on Concurrent training too from 1996.
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Re: Lean muscle gain while training for football

Postby Q. » Sun Feb 17, 2013 10:03 am

whufc wrote:Is it fair to say to build any muscle you need to be getting a basic ratio of eg

80kg person needs about 160g of protein a day

100kg person needs about 200g of protein a dY


It's roughly a pound of protein per pound of Lean Body Mass, not total body weight.

It's a guide rather than an absolute requirement.
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Re: Duromine vs Professional athlete

Postby kickinit » Sun Feb 17, 2013 12:34 pm

Squids wrote:I thought you couldn't gain muscle when you still do cardio?

srs question


can still do cardio just depends how much you want to eat. you can also lose weight without cardio, it's all about calories in vs calories out.
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Re: Lean muscle gain while training for football

Postby kickinit » Sun Feb 17, 2013 12:42 pm

Alaska wrote:Well I need a brand and an online store to buy a supplement for the 22 yo who is working out 5 days a week on weights to bulk up for the start of Footy season. He also runs three nights to keep the endurance up as this is his main weapon. But as he has matured he is now playing CHB and needs some more bulk.

He has just finished a bucket of Extreme Rapid Weight Gainer (vanilla) that seems to have the ingredients that kickinit is talking about.

What is the best value for money bucket for this boy to buy?


bulking powders are a waste as q said. I use gaspari myofusion imo its the best tasteing protein in australia. I perfer to make my own bulking powder, which is basically just banana or carb supplement.

can't buy myofusion from that states anymore so you can only buy it here. I have also had bb.com choc protein and thats pretty good. here the links he can get a 1kg of carbs and 1.5kg of protein delivered for $87 thats retty good value.

http://au.bodybuilding.com/store/univ/carbo.html
http://au.bodybuilding.com/store/bodybu ... togen.html
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Re: Lean muscle gain while training for football

Postby cheetah » Sun Feb 17, 2013 1:49 pm

Honestly this is such an eye opener! Just had a quick glance of websites. Kickinit or Q is it best 2 talk 2 people on website? Do they have the best info? Or could you please maybe post a daily diet intake when you are guys are trying 2 put on muscle?
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Re: Lean muscle gain while training for football

Postby Jase » Sun Feb 17, 2013 2:51 pm

Hi guys, I have finally joined the gym at the school I work at and want to get a weights/cardio plan to get, for want of a better term, sexy... :)

Seriously I dont want to get necessarily big, or strong I just want to get ripped...

I'm 5'11 and 86kg...

I want to do it without any supplements (can't afford them) so can someone recommend a training program?

In will be able to train 3-4 times a week but am currently struggling with a calf injury which has been hanging around for about 8 weeks die to re-injury...

Any help would be greatly appreciated...

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Re: Lean muscle gain while training for football

Postby heater31 » Sun Feb 17, 2013 3:43 pm

This thread has the most scientific mumbo jumbo I have ever seen around here :shock: .... My head hurts :lol:
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Re: Lean muscle gain while training for football

Postby Q. » Sun Feb 17, 2013 3:49 pm

heater31 wrote:This thread has the most scientific mumbo jumbo I have ever seen around here :shock: .... My head hurts :lol:


In the end it basically comes down to training hard, eating well, and getting a good sleep.
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Re: Lean muscle gain while training for football

Postby heater31 » Sun Feb 17, 2013 3:52 pm

Q. wrote:
heater31 wrote:This thread has the most scientific mumbo jumbo I have ever seen around here :shock: .... My head hurts :lol:


In the end it basically comes down to training hard, eating well, and getting a good sleep.



Under estimated part of any sort of recovery from Physical Exercise.
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Re: Lean muscle gain while training for football

Postby Q. » Sun Feb 17, 2013 3:59 pm

Jase wrote:Seriously I dont want to get necessarily big, or strong I just want to get ripped...


It would take you years to get 'big', but you should still train as if that is your aim in order to optimise the time spent in the gym.

Have you previously done much resistance training?
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Re: Lean muscle gain while training for football

Postby Jase » Sun Feb 17, 2013 4:19 pm

Q. wrote:
Jase wrote:Seriously I dont want to get necessarily big, or strong I just want to get ripped...


It would take you years to get 'big', but you should still train as if that is your aim in order to optimise the time spent in the gym.

Have you previously done much resistance training?


A little...

I'm really just after something along the lines of what weights exercises to do, how many, what sorts of weight...

Just as a starter to get back into it...

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Re: Lean muscle gain while training for football

Postby kickinit » Sun Feb 17, 2013 5:52 pm

Jase wrote:
Q. wrote:
Jase wrote:Seriously I dont want to get necessarily big, or strong I just want to get ripped...


It would take you years to get 'big', but you should still train as if that is your aim in order to optimise the time spent in the gym.

Have you previously done much resistance training?


A little...

I'm really just after something along the lines of what weights exercises to do, how many, what sorts of weight...

Just as a starter to get back into it...

Sent from my XT925 using Tapatalk 2


without taking up a whole page explaining everything have a look at this 12 week trainer. It's a pretty good basic plan that has help many before. if you've got any questions ask away.

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/kris-ge ... intro.html
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