Teachers 15.75% with 5 months of back pay.

[Mic]

Re: the MySchool website, aren't the results of students' tests results confidential and therefore should not be posted on a public website?

The school I work at gets compared to some interstate private schools. There is no explanation as to how 'similar schools' are selected. There is a link that says it explains it, but all it does is take you to a glossary of terms that doesn't explain anything.

[dedja]

Re: the MySchool website, aren't the results of students' tests results confidential and therefore should not be posted on a public website?

The school I work at gets compared to some interstate private schools. There is no explanation as to how 'similar schools' are selected. There is a link that says it explains it, but all it does is take you to a glossary of terms that doesn't explain anything.

Individual results are confidential but trends within a result set aren't by the looks of it.

I agree about the similar schools assessment ... I've tried to understand the ICSEA definition and it has me stumped so far. Maybe Rudd wrote the definition himself?

[Mic]

Re: the MySchool website, aren't the results of students' tests results confidential and therefore should not be posted on a public website?

The school I work at gets compared to some interstate private schools. There is no explanation as to how 'similar schools' are selected. There is a link that says it explains it, but all it does is take you to a glossary of terms that doesn't explain anything.

Individual results are confidential but trends within a result set aren't by the looks of it.

I agree about the similar schools assessment ... I've tried to understand the ICSEA definition and it has me stumped so far. Maybe Rudd wrote the definition himself?

If a school has a severely dyslexic student, it is likely that they would be the only one in the lower/lowest bands for English. Wouldn't be too hard for anyone who knows that dyslexic student to work out that the low result belongs to them.

[dedja]

Also, there are some schools that discourage lower performing students from peforming the NAPLAN tests to distort the results.

Have a look at Campbelltown Primary School (no, this is not my girls school). They scored exceptionally well in the Year 3 results, until you look at the participation rate which was 54%, with 31% exempted and 15% absent, compared to the average participation rate of 94%, 2% exempted and 4% absent.

http://www.myschool.edu.au/Main.aspx?Pa ... choolId=SA G0000000710&DEEWRId=7028&CalendarYear=2009

Looks very suss ...

[dedja]

Re: the MySchool website, aren't the results of students' tests results confidential and therefore should not be posted on a public website?

The school I work at gets compared to some interstate private schools. There is no explanation as to how 'similar schools' are selected. There is a link that says it explains it, but all it does is take you to a glossary of terms that doesn't explain anything.

Individual results are confidential but trends within a result set aren't by the looks of it.

I agree about the similar schools assessment ... I've tried to understand the ICSEA definition and it has me stumped so far. Maybe Rudd wrote the definition himself?

If a school has a severely dyslexic student, it is likely that they would be the only one in the lower/lowest bands for English. Wouldn't be too hard for anyone who knows that dyslexic student to work out that the low result belongs to them.

Yes, that's a good point ...

[LPH]

My friend is a Primary School Teacher.
I am offended that you might refer to her as a "baby sitter".

A few stats for you...

28 kids; 20 boys, 8 Girls.

18 with Special Needs (3 'gifted & talented', 7 with 'Lysdexia' (get it? ), 1 Downs, 1 Discalular (can't use numbers), 2 with Autism/Aspergers (1 of these guys cries all day because he doesn't cope with change in routine), 3 severe learning difficulties - auditory processing, 1 with Authority Defiancy Disorder - last year slamed a kids hand in a door jam)

Of the remaining 11, 2 of the boys have behaviour problems because they hang around with 'Defiency Boy'.

1 child's mother has a Drug Habit & fails to collect her daughter some days & generally sends her to school without lunch or water bottle.

Seperate 'Running Records' for each child is almost impossible because of the 'crowd control issues'.

I think after a 4 year degree & 10 years of this, she's entitled to a pay rise, don't you???

[Squawk]

Getting a university degree is a minimum benchmark for an administrative/professional occupation these days. As far as I'm aware, the TER is pretty low for teaching as well, so arguably those doing the teaching degree are not amongst the brighest students going around. It's also low for nursing. These have been jobs that have attracted the average student. Average students training to teach the next generation of students = average outcomes. This wont be fixed by massive pay increases so give them the same as everyone else gets IMHO. Also, make progression through each step subject to meeting some specified quality standards - not just an automatic thing.

The other thing that isn't being mentioned is all the other benefits teachers get. For example, teaching in an isolated school. Do 7 years and get a paid term off. Do 10 years and get a paid year off. Take long service leave in terms 1 or 4, and get to tack school holidays on to either end. 12 weeks holiday which they all have to work through apparently - yet they don't have to present themselves to the school on each day excepting 4 weeks of genuine annual leave. Student free days.

[Squawk]

As for the myschool website, it doesn't go far enough. It should allow so-called league tables. Same should be the case for hospitals, aged care homes and any other service - public or private.

[Mic]

Getting a university degree is a minimum benchmark for an administrative/professional occupation these days. As far as I'm aware, the TER is pretty low for teaching as well, so arguably those doing the teaching degree are not amongst the brighest students going around. It's also low for nursing. These have been jobs that have attracted the average student. Average students training to teach the next generation of students = average outcomes. This wont be fixed by massive pay increases so give them the same as everyone else gets IMHO. Also, make progression through each step subject to meeting some specified quality standards - not just an automatic thing.

The other thing that isn't being mentioned is all the other benefits teachers get. For example, teaching in an isolated school. Do 7 years and get a paid term off. Do 10 years and get a paid year off. Take long service leave in terms 1 or 4, and get to tack school holidays on to either end. 12 weeks holiday which they all have to work through apparently - yet they don't have to present themselves to the school on each day excepting 4 weeks of genuine annual leave. Student free days.

That 'Country Incentives' scheme ended years ago, now they get extra money for their first 5 years, the amount ranging from almost nothing to a couple grand a year depending on how far from Adelaide the school is and how isolated it is.

[Squawk]

It's certainly outlined in the 2006-2009 enterprise agreement, Mic.

Subsidised housing in country locations is another benefit I think?

[Mic]

It's certainly outlined in the 2006-2009 enterprise agreement, Mic.

Subsidised housing in country locations is another benefit I think?

I'll reword that, unless you started teaching in the country in the year 2000 or before, you are unable to get the 6 years = 1 term leave, 8 years = 2 terms leave, 10 years = 1 year leave.

A deserved benefit because the houses are normally crap.

[zipzap]

Subsidised housing in country locations is another benefit I think?

Only if it's available which it very rarely is, particularly in the small tumbleweed towns that a new or contract teacher can get shipped off to with less than a day's notice. Until you enjoy the luxury of becoming permanent - which can take several to many years - the life of a contract teacher who is prepared to go bush can be pretty arduous with little support, despite the rosy picture painted here by some.

[dedja]

Subsidised housing in country locations is another benefit I think?

Only if it's available which it very rarely is, particularly in the small tumbleweed towns that a new or contract teacher can get shipped off to with less than a day's notice. Until you enjoy the luxury of becoming permanent - which can take several to many years - the life of a contract teacher who is prepared to go bush can be pretty arduous with little support, despite the rosy picture painted here by some.

Agreed ... no different to rural incentives for GPs which are required to ensure that enough staff are available.

[Squawk]

teachers also get free car parking at work... imagine if they were charged $10 or even $5 a day to park as part of going to work. That's a lot of coin that could be used to fund aged care.

[am Bays]

Not fussed either way with what the teachers got, I just wonder if they'll have to wait as long as the public servents for their actual pay rise. Our 2.5 % per year increase was ratified by the Commission on January 15 (IIRC) after being voted on before Xmas. Mid February we are still waiting fo it to flow through to our pay-packets. Have been informed by our pay officers that we will get the increase late February, the back pay in early March and $600 bonus 2nd pay in March. Is there anything important happening politically in March in this state??? When I worked in the NT and Victoria, used to take 1-2 pays after it was ratified for it to come through....

Got to say I'm happy with what we got even though it less than what other PS get in other states they don't have our cost of living though. Was quiet in a work today though....

Mic and Zippy if they're consistent expect your pay rises in April/May....

[Ian]

Not fussed either way with what the teachers got, I just wonder if they'll have to wait as long as the public servents for their actual pay rise. Our 2.5 % per year increase was ratified by the Commission on January 15 (IIRC) after being voted on before Xmas. Mid February we are still waiting fo it to flow through to our pay-packets. Have been informed by our pay officers that we will get the increase late February, the back pay in early March and $600 bonus 2nd pay in March. Is there anything important happening politically in March in this state???

we got the back pay last week

Got to say I'm happy with what we got even though it less than what other PS get in other states they don't have our cost of living though. Was quiet in a work today though....

don't be bluffed by the cost of living argument, the gap is closing quicker than most realise

[zipzap]

teachers also get free car parking at work... imagine if they were charged $10 or even $5 a day to park as part of going to work. That's a lot of coin that could be used to fund aged care.

[Yorkshire accent] Aye, if you were LUCKY! [/Yorkshire accent] Lots of city schools like mine don't have car parks making the morning wrestle with 4WDs and subsequent walk around the block with a crate of marked books another joy to look forward to every day

[gossipgirl]

Not fussed either way with what the teachers got, I just wonder if they'll have to wait as long as the public servents for their actual pay rise. Our 2.5 % per year increase was ratified by the Commission on January 15 (IIRC) after being voted on before Xmas. Mid February we are still waiting fo it to flow through to our pay-packets. Have been informed by our pay officers that we will get the increase late February, the back pay in early March and $600 bonus 2nd pay in March. Is there anything important happening politically in March in this state???

we got the back pay last week

Got to say I'm happy with what we got even though it less than what other PS get in other states they don't have our cost of living though. Was quiet in a work today though....

don't be bluffed by the cost of living argument, the gap is closing quicker than most realise

you have to be kidding, obviously you havent lived in Sydney or Melbourne recently

[Psyber]

you have to be kidding, obviously you havent lived in Sydney or Melbourne recently

I've had a couple of interesting cost of living experiences since my return to Adelaide.
1. I needed some business cards for my part time work - SNAP Printing Preston, Melbourne, 2/3 the price [including postage] of the local SNAP's pricing.
2. I needed 4 Pirelli Scorpion ATR tyres - Bob Jane, Glen Osmond Rd $260 ea, BJ City $250 ea, BJ Ferntree Gully, Melbourne, $215 ea - BJ City flexed down to $225 ea when I quoted the Melbourne price...

[FlyingHigh]

Getting a university degree is a minimum benchmark for an administrative/professional occupation these days. As far as I'm aware, the TER is pretty low for teaching as well, so arguably those doing the teaching degree are not amongst the brighest students going around. It's also low for nursing. These have been jobs that have attracted the average student. Average students training to teach the next generation of students = average outcomes. This wont be fixed by massive pay increases so give them the same as everyone else gets IMHO. Also, make progression through each step subject to meeting some specified quality standards - not just an automatic thing.
.

True, the TER is lower than other courses, but I'm sure that would be reflected if you compare these salary figures to doctors, vets, lawyers, accountants. If the "smarter" kids are being attracted to these professions, then that reflects how society values teachers and nurses.
Teachers aren't on there own in getting automatic progressions - not so long ago (and I think it still does) the award covering local government office workers had automatic progression of one step each year (or two if relevant tertiary qualifications) up to a certain level.
(And no, I am not a teacher).