Campaign to change the Australian flag - should we?

[SABRE]

Lets dispose of the myth that people fought under the Australian flag:

Throughout World War One and Two, most Australians (which includes my great grandfathers, great uncles and great great uncles) fought under the Union Jack (and also in the Boer War).
If Australians didn't fight under the Union Jack, which was most common, they fought under the Australian red ensign.
Those who fought in the Korean War (including my grandfather) most likely would have fought under either of those flags also.

I'm pretty certain that only those who have fought for Australia in Vietnam fought under the current Australian flag, as it was only officially proclaimed as our flag in 1954.

I don't mind the debate about the flag but this Ted Bullpitt theory about "my grandparents fought under that flag" annoys me as it incorrectly plays on peoples' emotions regarding the flag.

I tend to agree DW. I stand to be corrected, but I'm pretty sure we've never marched into
a major skirmish with the current flag. My uncle went to New Guinea under the Red Ensign
and my naval grandfather went everywhere in WW2 under the White Ensign.
As far as I know the bluey is only a relatively recent blow-in. A Johnny-come-lately, if you will.
I'm open to any good design in our true national colours - Wattle Gold and Bottle Green.
Has a nice ring to it...We love the wattle and the bottle.

Pretty sure the boys in ALL wars marched off to Waltzing Matilda by choice too. Not the current dirge.

[Ronnie]

To answer your question about "who benefits from these yearly calls"....we do. By being able to debate our various viewpoints.
And Australia Day should be about volunteers etc (it's feels all right doesn't it?) but it should also be about taking a look at our past, present and future and questioning the good and bad parts of our culture and history.
Hence, it's a perfect time to bring up the flag debate, the anthem or the Republican vote.

Me, I reckon change the flag, leave the anthem and consider republicanism.

I agree that in a democracy these things should be discussed, nothing to be afraid of in that. No one should pretend that everything is fine and rosy and beyond discussion.
I guess i would say however that excessive navel gazing does no one any good.
I would be disappointed if Australia Day was overshadowed by endless debate about the flag every year which is what some people seem to have in mind. Debate which really goes nowhere in the light of current community sentiment and the requirement that any change to the flag can only happen via referendum.

[devilsadvocate]

Lets dispose of the myth that people fought under the Australian flag:

Throughout World War One and Two, most Australians (which includes my great grandfathers, great uncles and great great uncles) fought under the Union Jack (and also in the Boer War).
If Australians didn't fight under the Union Jack, which was most common, they fought under the Australian red ensign.
Those who fought in the Korean War (including my grandfather) most likely would have fought under either of those flags also.

I'm pretty certain that only those who have fought for Australia in Vietnam fought under the current Australian flag, as it was only officially proclaimed as our flag in 1954.

I don't mind the debate about the flag but this Ted Bullpitt theory about "my grandparents fought under that flag" annoys me as it incorrectly plays on peoples' emotions regarding the flag.

Fair enough - My Grandfather who fought in the Navy did so under the white ensign. The flag has been around in its current design since 1901, so it's not as though it was invented in 1954.

But when the debate regarding a change to the flag invariably raised its head, he was adamant it should remain as it is.

I agree with him - what are the benefits of changing it?

I can't think of one.

[cripple]

Lets dispose of the myth that people fought under the Australian flag:

Throughout World War One and Two, most Australians (which includes my great grandfathers, great uncles and great great uncles) fought under the Union Jack (and also in the Boer War).
If Australians didn't fight under the Union Jack, which was most common, they fought under the Australian red ensign.
Those who fought in the Korean War (including my grandfather) most likely would have fought under either of those flags also.

I'm pretty certain that only those who have fought for Australia in Vietnam fought under the current Australian flag, as it was only officially proclaimed as our flag in 1954.

I don't mind the debate about the flag but this Ted Bullpitt theory about "my grandparents fought under that flag" annoys me as it incorrectly plays on peoples' emotions regarding the flag.

Fair enough - My Grandfather who fought in the Navy did so under the white ensign. The flag has been around in its current design since 1901, so it's not as though it was invented in 1954.

But when the debate regarding a change to the flag invariably raised its head, he was adamant it should remain as it is.

I agree with him - what are the benefits of changing it?

I can't think of one.

I am neither here or their with this, but possible benefits include,

1. better representation of current australia
2. less connection to the UK on the world stage
3. not have our flag confused with New Zealands from a distance
4. Give us something truly unique that has a strong identity, like the canadian maple leaf or seth efrican rainbow flag.
5. allow us to look to the future whilst respecting the past but not clinging onto it for the sake of it

[CK]

For what its worth, I don't really see the need to change it. Unless we become a republic, the Union Jack signifies our ties with Great Britain (rightly or wrongly); the stars signify the states, and the colours are striking. For what its worth, I don't see any real reason for it to be anything different.

Some of the ideas (not floated here) of putting a boxing kangaroo on a green background as our flag would make us look like a cartoon nation. Probably for the same reason I'm not sold on Waltzing Matilda as a national anthem (not saying that Advance Australia Fair is the perfect song either) - not sure if projects the right message to the world about our country.

[redden whites]

We have had 2 diggers in our family who actually both kinda went anti the traditional RSL stance with the flag.They believed they fought for freedoms which include the right to change the flag( growing independent nation) and when immigration issues arise they also applied that to accepting those fleeing the exact thing they saw(war) and the oppression they fought against .Not the traditional RSL stance also .

I wonder what the Anzac Cove veterans who lie on the other side of the world would think of the Union Jack on the flag with regard to the British sending them into machine guns as a distraction for other landings elsewhere or Churchills reluctance to allow Australian troops to go home to fight the Japanese.

Myself would vote for it to be removed.I would not replace it with anything that represents a section of the community at all(aboriginal flag or the like) that to me is just as selective as the Union Jack .

Leave it blue with the Federation star and the Southern Cross if I had a choice.

[Leaping Lindner]

We have had 2 diggers in our family who actually both kinda went anti the traditional RSL stance with the flag.They believed they fought for freedoms which include the right to change the flag( growing independent nation) and when immigration issues arise they also applied that to accepting those fleeing the exact thing they saw(war) and the oppression they fought against .Not the traditional RSL stance also .

I wonder what the Anzac Cove veterans who lie on the other side of the world would think of the Union Jack on the flag with regard to the British sending them into machine guns as a distraction for other landings elsewhere or Churchills reluctance to allow Australian troops to go home to fight the Japanese.

Myself would vote for it to be removed.I would not replace it with anything that represents a section of the community at all(aboriginal flag or the like) that to me is just as selective as the Union Jack .

Leave it blue with the Federation star and the Southern Cross if I had a choice.

What he said - almost word for word. Including the two grandfathers (One in WW1 and the other in WW2) who had pretty similiar opinions of the flag. Grandpa Lindner was at Gallipoli and later at the trenches in france and saw many of his mates slaughtered. Not a big fan of the inbred, syphilitic, barking mad english generals playing toy soldiers with thousands of australian lives.

[Psyber]

I've been for a Republic and for updating the flag since the 1960s, but I couldn't in conscience vote for the model offered at the last referendum.
I felt we needed a plan to restrict the power of the ruling party over our rights and monitor them, not one that gave them carte blanche.
I figured in they appointed a head of state they'd get the "Yes" man they wanted.

The figures here are evenly divided: http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/poll ... -1,00.html

[Thiele]

I rather just leave as it is

[once_were_warriors]

I love the flag as it represents Australia and its past

I'd love a new flag even more if the Union Jack was gone as it would represent where Australia is now.

Star of Federation where the Union Jack is , maintain the southern cross.

[Strawb]

I would get rid of the union jack and leave it blank. Or why don;t we go for the Eureka Flag and have all stars 7 pointed stars.

[Dogwatcher]

We have had 2 diggers in our family who actually both kinda went anti the traditional RSL stance with the flag.They believed they fought for freedoms which include the right to change the flag( growing independent nation) and when immigration issues arise they also applied that to accepting those fleeing the exact thing they saw(war) and the oppression they fought against .Not the traditional RSL stance also .

I wonder what the Anzac Cove veterans who lie on the other side of the world would think of the Union Jack on the flag with regard to the British sending them into machine guns as a distraction for other landings elsewhere or Churchills reluctance to allow Australian troops to go home to fight the Japanese.

Myself would vote for it to be removed.I would not replace it with anything that represents a section of the community at all(aboriginal flag or the like) that to me is just as selective as the Union Jack .

Leave it blue with the Federation star and the Southern Cross if I had a choice.

I too am very much in support of this post.

[fish]

I've got to admit I wouldn't mind pissing off the Union Jack.

[JK]

We have had 2 diggers in our family who actually both kinda went anti the traditional RSL stance with the flag.They believed they fought for freedoms which include the right to change the flag( growing independent nation) and when immigration issues arise they also applied that to accepting those fleeing the exact thing they saw(war) and the oppression they fought against .Not the traditional RSL stance also .

I wonder what the Anzac Cove veterans who lie on the other side of the world would think of the Union Jack on the flag with regard to the British sending them into machine guns as a distraction for other landings elsewhere or Churchills reluctance to allow Australian troops to go home to fight the Japanese.

Myself would vote for it to be removed.I would not replace it with anything that represents a section of the community at all(aboriginal flag or the like) that to me is just as selective as the Union Jack .

Leave it blue with the Federation star and the Southern Cross if I had a choice.

I too am very much in support of this post.

I 4 am in agreeance with it.

[JAS]

I reckon most here couldn't give a stuff what you do with your flag or would do we give you money, in which case change it and we'll keep the cash

Seriously though I reckon it would be a hugely expensive exercise if you did as I doubt you could change one type of flag eithout having to also change all the others you use that incorporate a Union Flag (only a Jack when at sea) and there seems to be quite a few...multiply that by the numbers in use of each one either as a flag or on printed material etc.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Australian_flags

Regards
JAS

[Moe]

We have had 2 diggers in our family who actually both kinda went anti the traditional RSL stance with the flag.They believed they fought for freedoms which include the right to change the flag( growing independent nation) and when immigration issues arise they also applied that to accepting those fleeing the exact thing they saw(war) and the oppression they fought against .Not the traditional RSL stance also .

I wonder what the Anzac Cove veterans who lie on the other side of the world would think of the Union Jack on the flag with regard to the British sending them into machine guns as a distraction for other landings elsewhere or Churchills reluctance to allow Australian troops to go home to fight the Japanese.

Myself would vote for it to be removed.I would not replace it with anything that represents a section of the community at all(aboriginal flag or the like) that to me is just as selective as the Union Jack .

Leave it blue with the Federation star and the Southern Cross if I had a choice.

I too am very much in support of this post.

After reading all posts on this subject, i agree most with these people.
Although keeping the Union Jack would mantain our beginnings, I think that the plain Southern Cross on a bblue background would describe our Country to perfection. We are simple, stylish, to the point & don't care what anyone else thinks about us. Happy Australia Day
I 4 am in agreeance with it.

[tigerland09]

Leave it how it is. If we were to become a republic im sure there would be alot of people who would want the union jack to stay or not change the flag at all because of its history.

[dedja]

I've got to admit I wouldn't mind pissing off the Union Jack.

LOL ... and the Poms that came with it.

[westozfalcon]

Lets dispose of the myth that people fought under the Australian flag:

Throughout World War One and Two, most Australians (which includes my great grandfathers, great uncles and great great uncles) fought under the Union Jack (and also in the Boer War).
.

Isn't that a pretty good reason to leave the Union Jack on the Australian flag?

[devilsadvocate]

We have had 2 diggers in our family who actually both kinda went anti the traditional RSL stance with the flag.They believed they fought for freedoms which include the right to change the flag( growing independent nation) and when immigration issues arise they also applied that to accepting those fleeing the exact thing they saw(war) and the oppression they fought against .Not the traditional RSL stance also .

I wonder what the Anzac Cove veterans who lie on the other side of the world would think of the Union Jack on the flag with regard to the British sending them into machine guns as a distraction for other landings elsewhere or Churchills reluctance to allow Australian troops to go home to fight the Japanese.

Myself would vote for it to be removed.I would not replace it with anything that represents a section of the community at all(aboriginal flag or the like) that to me is just as selective as the Union Jack .

Leave it blue with the Federation star and the Southern Cross if I had a choice.

Hadn't thought about it like that. Great post!