Teachers pay dispute

[Booney]

In turn with lower population comes less revenue for State Governemt, less when the Federal Government slices up the coin...

[Q.]

Teachers are moulding the future of this country, that is what separates it from other professions. It is important to attract the brightest and the best people capable of delivering a high standard of education.

[A Mum]

If teachers want to be paid like they are in other states .... then move there and leave us alone.

I know people are getting tired of the whole 'teachers strike' issues etc, and yes would be good just to be resolved and get it over and done with.... but if they do move to other states and 'leave us alone' what will happen is the best teachers will be the ones that leave the state and we will get 'left overs'. It's a bit of a mess I think, and not what we want/need for our kids

In relation to Booney, mine didn't go to school either today. I didn't really know about the fact that the strike had been called off until late last night, by that time my kids were in bed, so I've just let it be.

Got a text message from the automated school texting system at 8.22am this morning stating strike cancelled. school as normal. busses running as usual. which is fine, but the bus they catch is at 8am

[Rik E Boy]

Teachers....pay em
Nurses....pay em
Child Care workers....pay em

Fat Cat executives with golden handshakes.....**** em

regards,

REB

[Dutchy]

Are teachers subject to annual performance reviews like many other professions?

Dont open that can of worms again!!!

Although I didnt get a straight answer last time, the answer is no they dont and the teachers believe they should be immune from this for some reason

to me it seems the simple solution, performance = extra pay....like a normal business

IMO teachers should not be getting paid for today, but that wont happen

They have stuffed up big time here, or at least their union has, mixed messages everywhere, Union comes out and says its more about the future of education in this state than the money, yet as per this thread its about the $$$$

Thank god we went private with my lad

[Booney]

"Thank God we went private with my lad" , the thinking behind this has always baffled me,as for some reason people seem to think a Private Education in some way ensures a better result.

In this case it may help with the disruption caused by this dispute but IMO in most other cases is a load of BS.

[zipzap]

Are teachers subject to annual performance reviews like many other professions?

Dont open that can of worms again!!!

Although I didnt get a straight answer last time, the answer is no they dont and the teachers believe they should be immune from this for some reason

Yes you did. Yes they do. No they don't.

Thank god we went private with my lad

Agreed.

[Hondo]

If teachers want to be paid like they are in other states .... then move there and leave us alone.

I know people are getting tired of the whole 'teachers strike' issues etc, and yes would be good just to be resolved and get it over and done with.... but if they do move to other states and 'leave us alone' what will happen is the best teachers will be the ones that leave the state and we will get 'left overs'. It's a bit of a mess I think, and not what we want/need for our kids

I was tongue-in-cheek slighty because the simple fact is that a very small % of teachers would actually move for the sake of 18% v 14% pay rise. Where I work, we have been involved in many relocations both to and from Adelaide. While money is one of the important factors in people's, it's rarely the MOST important. The decision of where you live is influenced by where your family is, lifestyle, cost of living, what you are used to and, of couse, salary. But when it comes to the crunch, it's family and lifestyle that seal the deal either way.

It's yet another bluff by the Union and another disservice (IMO) they are doing to their members in trying to convince everyone of this potential mass exodus of teachers. Some may go, but most will stay.

[mick]

SA teachers are the worst paid in the country, by a long shot. Whether or not the cost of living here is less is irrelevant - the fact is it's becoming increasingly difficult to attract the better, brighter candidates (and push out the tired baby boomers but that's another story) as evidenced by the fact that the TER for teaching has dropped markedly in recent years.

EVERY profession is lower paid here in SA - that's life.

I know for a fact that Engineers & Accountants get $20K - $30K more in WA, QLD and NSW. Why not just move there? Well, in those states you have to pay up to 100% more to buy an equivalent house in an equivalent location (distance from city). If teachers want to be paid like they are in other states .... then move there and leave us alone.

Secondly, EVERY profession in EVERY state is finding it hard to find better candidates. There's a skills shortage everywhere.

The Union has got themselves and their members into a riled up, fantasy land and they have made promises to the members that can't deliver. To quote Top Gun ... "they are writing cheques they can't cash". The irony is that it's taken so long that now they are negotiating when the world is on the verge of recession and the Govt budget is taking a hammering. If 21% seemed like a good idea when things were booming 12 months ago, now they've been caught with their pants down.

Most people I speak to are completely over the word "teachers". I think it's time we picketed the office of the Union!

Bravo couldn't agree more. They are very well paid for people with a basic degree. I know many people with muliple higher degrees who work harder and get paid less. Teachers who don't like the pay here should move, they can use the extra pay to service the larger mortgage they will require

[Dogwatcher]

And what about the teachers who want a better deal for their students and the schools they are working in, I guess they should just get stuffed too Mick....

[mick]

And what about the teachers who want a better deal for their students and the schools they are working in, I guess they should just get stuffed too Mick....

Much of this dispute is about, the union calling the shots with regard to funding. The government wants to give school Principals the right to hire and fire and full control over budgets. If they really cared so much they would moderate their wage demands so the excess would result in more resources for the schools. This dispute is about union control and wages. I despise the Rann government but they should be applauded in standing up to this mob.

[Dogwatcher]

I don't disagree that the Union has been stubborn on this occasion. They over stepped the mark.
But the government is also being stubborn.
The EB offers they have given have not been fair.

If I was a teacher, I'd be very pis*ed at the body that is supposed to be protecting their rights.
The union has done a poor job of handling the strikes and they haven't put their points across very well.

[Rik E Boy]

SA teachers are the worst paid in the country, by a long shot. Whether or not the cost of living here is less is irrelevant - the fact is it's becoming increasingly difficult to attract the better, brighter candidates (and push out the tired baby boomers but that's another story) as evidenced by the fact that the TER for teaching has dropped markedly in recent years.

EVERY profession is lower paid here in SA - that's life.

I know for a fact that Engineers & Accountants get $20K - $30K more in WA, QLD and NSW. Why not just move there? Well, in those states you have to pay up to 100% more to buy an equivalent house in an equivalent location (distance from city). If teachers want to be paid like they are in other states .... then move there and leave us alone.

I am not an Engineer or an Accountant but I made the move to Qld four years ago and I earn about twice what I was earning in 2004. We bought our house in Eastern Heights for 220k. As an Adelaide person I lived in Richmond/Mile End/Marleston/Kurralta Park. If you can find a three bedroom house in one of those suburbs for that price four years ago then I would be very surprised indeed. In fact, I couldn't believe how much housing costs had gone up in Adelaide the last time I came home. Eastern Heights is probably about Elizabeth away in terms of distance from Brisbane but man I would not want to live in BrisVegas, it is a traffic choked hole to me. By your reckoning I should have paid about 440k for my house, I think I may have snaffled a bargin here.

If I stayed in Adelaide I'd be earning about 30 grand a year and I'd either be out at Salisbury East or Elizabeth Downs or renting and paying top dollar to live in my home burb. I love Adelaide but I had to leave it and so have many other South Australians. The point that zip zap makes is a pertinent one. The (teaching and other professional) talent will move on and leave you alone and the people who will be disadvantaged by this are young South Australians. Love it or leave it? Mate some people have to love it AND leave it. Surely it's a situation that needs to be addressed.

regards,

REB

[Dutchy]

And what about the teachers who want a better deal for their students and the schools they are working in, I guess they should just get stuffed too Mick....

Im not sure its their role to do this though DW, surely the Education Dept have people and strategies in place always looking at this?

[Rik E Boy]

Bravo couldn't agree more. They are very well paid for people with a basic degree. I know many people with muliple higher degrees who work harder and get paid less. Teachers who don't like the pay here should move, they can use the extra pay to service the larger mortgage they will require

Small thinking = a smaller state.

regards,

REB

[Dutchy]

"Thank God we went private with my lad" , the thinking behind this has always baffled me,as for some reason people seem to think a Private Education in some way ensures a better result.

In this case it may help with the disruption caused by this dispute but IMO in most other cases is a load of BS.

Never said that Booney, dont put words in my mouth FFS....I was referring to the stuffing around all public school parents have had to put up especially today, while private schools go on uneffected, for that Im grateful

There are numerous reasons for our decision to go private but thats for another day and not related to this debate....

[Dogwatcher]

And what about the teachers who want a better deal for their students and the schools they are working in, I guess they should just get stuffed too Mick....

Im not sure its their role to do this though DW, surely the Education Dept have people and strategies in place always looking at this?

How is it not their role to ensure that their working conditions are at the least maintained?
You're right though, the Education Dept does have people and strategies in place looking at this - but sadly they usually result in budget cuts and increasing class sizes being considerations.

[Hondo]

I am not an Engineer or an Accountant but I made the move to Qld four years ago and I earn about twice what I was earning in 2004. We bought our house in Eastern Heights for 220k. As an Adelaide person I lived in Richmond/Mile End/Marleston/Kurralta Park. If you can find a three bedroom house in one of those suburbs for that price four years ago then I would be very surprised indeed. In fact, I couldn't believe how much housing costs had gone up in Adelaide the last time I came home. Eastern Heights is probably about Elizabeth away in terms of distance from Brisbane but man I would not want to live in BrisVegas, it is a traffic choked hole to me. By your reckoning I should have paid about 440k for my house, I think I may have snaffled a bargin here.

If I stayed in Adelaide I'd be earning about 30 grand a year and I'd either be out at Salisbury East or Elizabeth Downs or renting and paying top dollar to live in my home burb. I love Adelaide but I had to leave it and so have many other South Australians. The point that zip zap makes is a pertinent one. The (teaching and other professional) talent will move on and leave you alone and the people who will be disadvantaged by this are young South Australians. Love it or leave it? Mate some people have to love it AND leave it. Surely it's a situation that needs to be addressed.

You'd pay about $350-$450K in the areas you mentioned in Adelaide. How much would you pay in Brisbane if you lived 10km from the CBD? In Perth for example, you'd be paying close to $400K to get a house that's further out than Elizabeth. Homes close to Perth CBD (10-15km) are in excess of $1m You said it yourself, in QLD you don't want to live close to the CBD. Here, close to the CBD there's not the same traffic and people conjestions and not the same exhorbitant price tags.

1- Sounds like a bargain for $220K, well played .. but it was 4 years ago what would it cost you now?
2- If you were working here on $30K you'd be getting paid about the same as a receptionist.

Don't get me wrong - if you are prepared to move your family and live a fair way away from CBD's you could easily be financially better off for moving interstate. But the numbers of people who would actually do it for the sake of an extra 4% pay rise over 3 years are very few IMO. That's my point. Remember 4% is the current negotiating difference yet the Union wants to make sweeping statements about teachers walking out of SA

I speak from experience I could have moved my family to Perth last year for more money but elected to stay here for a variety of personal reasons that I felt were more important.

[wycbloods]

I could write so so much about this, but I;ll start off with brevity:

1. Just because you go to Uni doesn't entitle every graduate to be paid the same.
2. Teachers should not be negotiating budget allocations - that is not the domain of enterprise bargaining. It's like a Holden plant demanding that Head Office commit a minimum funding allocation to their particular business. In any case, a commitment has been given that no school will receive less than what they get.
3. 12 weeks of holidays and out of hours activities. Other's get 4 weeks of holiday and out of hours work demands too. For example, most public servants have a clause that says "reasonable overtime/additional hours must be worked as required".
4. Police, Firefighters, Ambulance Staff, Doctors, Teachers and Nurses have had significant pay rises when compared to other professions. Go and ask other public servants about what pay rises they have got since 2001 or so?
5. As a result of (4) the state has a significant wages bill that leaves little buffer to absorb the effect of the "GFC". Teachers are demanding 18% for 3 years with 7% up front, plus a funding model that meets their satisfaction. What they aren't prepared to say is - who should miss out on pay rises or agency funding to satisfy their claim?
6. A teacher on $75k a year is paid the same as a level 3 lawyer at the DPP. They do Jury trials for major indictable (criminal) offences. There are 5 levels of lawyer before they peak prior to the management level. They have to go through annual performance reviews. Their performances are accounted in the media. They get harrassed in the street and at home and other places by the criminal underworld in nasty ways. They are responsible for making decisions that affect peoples lives - victims and perpetrators - in ways that can never be changed. Wrong decision - big problems. Bad day at work for a teacher? Unlikely in most cases to have a lifelong effect on one or more people. So make your choice - teacher for $75K or prosecutor for $75K?

*from the son of TWO career teachers, now retired.

Every worker in the country covered by an Award or and EBA has this kind of clause. The difference between most workers and the teachers is that the general workforce get paid for the overtime. What is a 'reasonable' amount of overtime or additional hours to you squawk? I am sure the additional unpaid hours that teachers put in a far greater than most other professions, regardless of their so called 12 weeks holidays a year.

[Booney]

Thank god we went private with my lad

You did say that,and I did say 'in this case' to what is currently happening.