Teachers 15.75% with 5 months of back pay.

[zipzap]

That's just what happens in the real world.

The real world. Here we go again.

[FlyingHigh]

That's just what happens in the real world.

The real world. Here we go again.

Exactly. Aren't we all part of the real world?

[FlyingHigh]

One thing Ive never been able to get a grip of is what do teachers actually get paid?

BAND 1 TEACHERS at 1/10/07 (note - current rates are now +3.75% from 9/2/09 and +4% from 1/10/09)

Step 1 = $49605 (graduate entry)
2 52165
3 54724
4 57280
5 59845
6 62403
7 64961
8 68422
AST 1/KEY TEACHER (fall back) 70492
AST 2 73791
BAND 2 PROMOTIONAL CLASSIFICATIONS
COORDINATOR 1 70492
COORDINATOR 2 73507
COORDINATOR 3 76829
ASSISTANT PRINCIPAL 1 77703
ASSISTANT PRINCIPAL 2 82291
BAND 3 PRINCIPALS/ DEPUTY PRINCIPALS
PC01 78576
PC02 83741
PC03 88908
PC04 94073
PC05 99242
PC06 104408
PC07 109575
PC08 114740

I'd hardly call these wages excessive.
Four years study at 40 hours a week, having to do another 15-20 hours on top just to earn similar money to apprentices who get paid for their 40 hours.
Come out with HECS debt up to 15-20,000.
Compare this to the wages of some positions where no substantial education is required, such as many mine workers and real estate agents. Remember tecahers often get sent to wherever just to get a job, those that go to the mines choose to do so.

[Bum Crack]

That's just what happens in the real world.

The real world. Here we go again.

Yeah, you're right. They are the only profession who put in extra hours in their job. How silly of me to think they aren't

[Bum Crack]

That's just what happens in the real world.

The real world. Here we go again.

Exactly. Aren't we all part of the real world?

Well stop making them out to be the only one's who work for their hard earned.

[Apachebulldog]

Dogger is spot the aged care workers in this state are grossly underpaid ie cleaners,kitchen staff, maintenance workers, 16,17 and 18 dollars per hour is not good enough now nusres well thats another story.

My other half is a supervisor in aged care and gets less than all the above mentioned something definetly wrong but the funny thing some of these facilities are owned by different church groups who have millions of dollars and guess what the CEO'S, admin staff etc are on top money plus company cars very interesting

[zipzap]

That's just what happens in the real world.

The real world. Here we go again.

Yeah, you're right. They are the only profession who put in extra hours in their job. How silly of me to think they aren't

Always get a chuckle the way some people equate unhappy people in suits sitting in a climate-controlled office cubicles surrounded by other unhappy people in cubicles with the 'real world'. I'd wager that teachers see more of the 'real world' than most, and it ain't always pretty. Some very scary individuals out there, and they breed.

[Mic]

That's just what happens in the real world.

The real world. Here we go again.

Exactly. Aren't we all part of the real world?

Well stop making them out to be the only one's who work for their hard earned.

He didn't.

[FlyingHigh]

That's just what happens in the real world.

The real world. Here we go again.

Exactly. Aren't we all part of the real world?

Well stop making them out to be the only one's who work for their hard earned.

Hang on, haven't you just implied that everyone else other than teachers work for their hard earned by saying teachers aren't part of the "real world"?
And what is the "real world" anyway? Either everyone helps contribute to the "real world" or there is no such thind as the "real world" because everyone has different perspectives, values and opinions, and so observes the world in their own unique way.

Of those pay figures Squawk put up, I believe the entry and second levels are rewarded generously, but what is the HECS rate? 4-5%, or on a sliding scale? Therefore for many you can take $2-2500 off those figures for the first few levels straight away for the majority of graduates.
After after that I reckon they're on the lower end of fair pay, and still fairly ordinarily compensated to many other jobs that don't require tertiary education.

[HH3]

lots of jobs are hard work and they dont get pay rises. im self emplyed, work anywhere from45 to 70 hours a week and im lucky if i get paid for 30.
yes it was my choice but it was the teachers choice to teach.

But mate, you are reliant on yourself and your will to make your business work. You can choose to work extra hours to make more profit for your business, or find new ways to do so.
Teachers have to ask to get more pay and look at the battle they go through to do that.

every industry has lazy workers but every industry assesses there workers and compensated them accordingly. perhaps its time teachers werent paid a flat rate but a rate determined by how good they actually are

I know some teachers that would agree with you on that.

I noted earlier in this thread that firefighters got a pay rise and didn't have to fight for it like the teachers did.
No votes in kicking around firefighters though is there....

How often are teachers' lives threatened though DW.
I can fully understand fireys getting a rise. That's a high-risk, dangerous job.

I agree. Firefighters and police get paid those amounts because of the danger they are put in every single day they work.

I plan on joining the police force in the next couple of months, and have wanted to be a police officer since school...nothing to do with the pay...to be honest, I had no idea what police got paid. Now that Im seriously looking into it, the amount is pretty attractive. But I know if I get accepted into the police force, Im going to be earning every cent. I know I will cop abuse, have to deal with drunk, violent, dangerous people every single day. I will have to attend motor accidents and possibly see the carnage...men, women and children who have lost their lives. I know I will have to notify families of deaths. These things aren't going to be much fun. So I think the higher wage for people in the police force is very warranted...

Cant wait to be cruisin' around in my BMW

[Squawk]

Always get a chuckle the way some people equate unhappy people in suits sitting in a climate-controlled office cubicles surrounded by other unhappy people in cubicles with the 'real world'.

Chris Robinson wears a suit, Jan Andrews a dress, but as for the rest of the administrative side of the Department, they dress like teachers coz most of them are ex-teachers (who still take a teaching salary in a non-teaching role and savour the full complement of school holidays every year).

[dedja]

Gee there are some muppets on this thread.
Just like clockwork, every time the T-word gets mentioned, bitter & jealous card-carrying members of the Big Bob fan club - who clearly had a bad experience in Biology (double meaning) - down tools and rise bunyip-like from the coal mine (Yorkshire, possibly) to grizzle about lazy teachers who snigger knowingly up their tweed sleeves while Joe the Plumber puts in 75 hours hard graft a week with no pay, no holidays and no 'spect.

Boo hoo, why should you get a payrise cos I didn't get one and my job's heaps harder, there's not enough hospitals...wah wah....
Take the chip off your shoulder, get off your bums and get organised and fight for it yourself if it's so important to you. Cripes alive, you sound like Port supporters!

FWIW the new arbitration ruling has introduced a Step 9 for teachers' salaries which is entirely PERFORMANCE BASED. ie to get any way near the top rate a teacher will have to undergo rigorous out of hours professional development and undergo stringent assessment of performance - which is as it should be and has always been the case for ASTs anyway.

That's a good start ... how does one get to step 8 would be my question.

[Mic]

Gee there are some muppets on this thread.
Just like clockwork, every time the T-word gets mentioned, bitter & jealous card-carrying members of the Big Bob fan club - who clearly had a bad experience in Biology (double meaning) - down tools and rise bunyip-like from the coal mine (Yorkshire, possibly) to grizzle about lazy teachers who snigger knowingly up their tweed sleeves while Joe the Plumber puts in 75 hours hard graft a week with no pay, no holidays and no 'spect.

Boo hoo, why should you get a payrise cos I didn't get one and my job's heaps harder, there's not enough hospitals...wah wah....
Take the chip off your shoulder, get off your bums and get organised and fight for it yourself if it's so important to you. Cripes alive, you sound like Port supporters!

FWIW the new arbitration ruling has introduced a Step 9 for teachers' salaries which is entirely PERFORMANCE BASED. ie to get any way near the top rate a teacher will have to undergo rigorous out of hours professional development and undergo stringent assessment of performance - which is as it should be and has always been the case for ASTs anyway.

That's a good start ... how does one get to step 8 would be my question.

Steps go up for every year of teaching and stop when you get to Step 8.

[dedja]

Gee there are some muppets on this thread.
Just like clockwork, every time the T-word gets mentioned, bitter & jealous card-carrying members of the Big Bob fan club - who clearly had a bad experience in Biology (double meaning) - down tools and rise bunyip-like from the coal mine (Yorkshire, possibly) to grizzle about lazy teachers who snigger knowingly up their tweed sleeves while Joe the Plumber puts in 75 hours hard graft a week with no pay, no holidays and no 'spect.

Boo hoo, why should you get a payrise cos I didn't get one and my job's heaps harder, there's not enough hospitals...wah wah....
Take the chip off your shoulder, get off your bums and get organised and fight for it yourself if it's so important to you. Cripes alive, you sound like Port supporters!

FWIW the new arbitration ruling has introduced a Step 9 for teachers' salaries which is entirely PERFORMANCE BASED. ie to get any way near the top rate a teacher will have to undergo rigorous out of hours professional development and undergo stringent assessment of performance - which is as it should be and has always been the case for ASTs anyway.

That's a good start ... how does one get to step 8 would be my question.

Steps go up for every year of teaching and stop when you get to Step 8.

Give the man a cigar ... so there is no merit, no applying for a 'promotion', no accountability. just turn up to get 7 consecutive pay rises.

I'd be interested whether there are any other public service jobs which are treated the same.

[Dog_ger]

Dogger is spot the aged care workers in this state are grossly underpaid ie cleaners,kitchen staff, maintenance workers, 16,17 and 18 dollars per hour is not good enough now nusres well thats another story.

My other half is a supervisor in aged care and gets less than all the above mentioned something definetly wrong but the funny thing some of these facilities are owned by different church groups who have millions of dollars and guess what the CEO'S, admin staff etc are on top money plus company cars very interesting

I think I know your Very Hard Working Wife Appache.

An underpaid saint of this industry.

A person of "VERY HIGH RESPECT"

Like Yourself

[RustyCage]

"How about the children" is actually a fair comment.

As in the coverage of the issue I've seen in the past few days, neither the union or government has commented on the 'conditions' that were also part of the debate. What happened to those?

BS - the reason the union asks for a high ball figure is because the government will offer a low ball figure (as generally they know the public will support them in that because, again, teachers are easy to have a kick at).

The union did stuff up this time though in forcing this one to drag on.

It's a pain in the backside that we are still waiting for the main part of the announcement to come out. There are a lot of teachers angry with the union for the way they have stuffed this all up. Like many teachers, I'd love to use a lot of the money from the payrise for better working conditions, mainly more SSO time so the students that really need the specialised one on one help are able to get it, as well as better teaching resources in schools.

[RustyCage]

It always amuses me that there is an assumption if a job pays more then you get better people. Its really a load of crap you just attract more greedy people.

I would support the teachers in striking if it would mean a better education for the kids but it is always about money money money.
The problem with the education system is that there are far too many bureaucrats and not enough teachers, teaching in schools.

of course the union receives more money if their members are paid more

Firstly, the only people it is always about money for is the media, the politicians, and people in the community that don't understand, and in most cases, are too ignorant to really listen or research what the real issues are.

Second point in bold, the crap the union has to go through for a pay rise is hardly worth it for the extra amount from the 0.8% of the income we pay as union fees.

[dedja]

I think the union needs to be made accountable by their members ... they have certainly botched this negotiation and think that public bully-boy tactics played out in the media will always win the day. Well the government didn't blink and took the matter to arbitration and the poor teachers were left hanging for ages. Even worse, the union alienated a large number of parents who may have been initially sympathetic to their cause. The campaign to hold rolling strikes completely turned parents against them as many had to take time off work with little notice to look after their children because the schools were closed.

This dispute could have easily been resolved much earlier but the union, even during the Global Financial Crisis, didn't read the situation well enough.

My sister has been a teacher for 35 years so I get to hear that side of the story. Also I have 3 kids in school and my wife and I are active parents on school committees and governing councils, so we have a reasonable understanding of the issues and conditions that teachers work under.

Let's hope that the union acts in better faith next time around and turns down the billigerence.

[RustyCage]

Thats just the thing dedja, the people running the union would be high fiving themselves and patting each other on the back right now, they will put what ever spin they need to put on it to make it look like they have done a great job, when in fact they have just alienated everyone with their hard line stance. The rolling strikes really messed us around as much as anyone.

[dedja]

Yes I suspect you're right about the high fives.

Funny how quick unionists are to call strike action when they know that their members will be docked pay whilst their own pay is safe and secure during a strike.