SA Footy

Posted: **Mon Jan 21, 2008 8:30 pm**

There was a legitimate discussion about why is it racist to call black people black but not racist to call white people white.

I think that is a legitimate discussion (a stupid one, but legitimate none the less) and can continue on this thread.

I have concerns about the way it was addressed initially as it showed this website in a poor way IMHO as it was one sided and in itself could be deemed as racist (I know I did).

I also wont enter into the discussion as I know the answer and its a pretty simple one, hopefully some can work it out themselves.

But feel free to carry on the discussion here. No racist posts will be tolerated and will be deleted. For other posters, I'd prefer discussions like this didn't occur on a footy site in the future but its up to everyone what they post.

Cheers.

Posted: **Mon Jan 21, 2008 8:54 pm**

I've seen Blacks racially abused by Whites, and I've seen Whites racially abused by Blacks, I've seen Whites from one culture racially abuse Whites from another culture, it's all racial abuse, none is worse than the other, wouldn't it be so easy if everyone could forget the past and just get on with life.

Posted: **Mon Jan 21, 2008 9:05 pm**

Why are people so unkind....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hb69b5JoAd0

Posted: **Tue Jan 22, 2008 1:42 am**

We were told at uni, and I think its absolute crap and just as racist as any comments that could be made, but its is ok for 'blacks' for call us whites but not ok for us to call them 'blacks' because they are the minority group, and therefore the term "white" or its variations has a different meaning for them than the term "black" or its variations has for us. Pretty bad for a university to be pushing such a racist view.

Posted: **Tue Jan 22, 2008 3:08 am**

Unfortunately it's not as simple as white against black and vice versa. Try going to some areas of the UK and putting afro-caribbeans and asians in the same room and see what happens.

I count myself lucky in that as a kid my parents had a very diverse group of friends including afro-caribean, Indian, Scottish, Welsh, American and they were also a mix of religions and skin shades. I've always tried to judge people as individuals...some I like, some I don't...they can be bright green and worship sofa's for all I care.

But at the same time we were subjected to what I guess you could call racism at school by other white kids because we happen to have a German surname so we got every reference to the Nazi's, physical and verbal, that you can think of even though the entire family emigrated here in the mid 19thC. Didn't help being half Irish in the midst of the 'troubles' during the 1960's and 70's either.

I don't think racism will ever go away...we have to learn how to live with it.

Regards
JAS

Posted: **Tue Jan 22, 2008 6:20 am**

Jas We shouldn't have to live with Racism. The South Africans are a top example of how bad things can become if you were English South African or a rooniek there were places that you couldn't go and same for the Boer's. That country nearly killed itself on it's fighting. We all need to get along the problem is some races live in there own little communities with in suburbs and don't mix with others. Now how are we all supposed to be Australia's when we don't mix together.

Posted: **Tue Jan 22, 2008 6:29 am**

I agree with a lot you have said JAS. It's more about different cultures/beliefs than the colour of peoples skin. A lot of groups have probably forgotton why they dislike another group, a bit like the prodestants and catholics in Ireland, they have all been brought up to hate each other.

Since moving to Adelaide 26 years ago for work I have worked with Aboriginals, people from many different European and Asian backgrounds, South Americans etc. etc. I have had less differences of opinions with most of those people than I have had with some other white Anglo Saxons.
My kids have gone to school and played sport with many Greeks, Italians, Sudaneese as well as many kids from other races, most have got on well with each other, as have their parents.

Posted: **Tue Jan 22, 2008 6:32 am**

JAS wrote:
I don't think racism will ever go away...we have to learn how to live with it.

I think it could go away, but I don't think it ever will. As well as our own issues, we also have people from other cultures bringing their differences to Aus. with them. Some of them have far more deep seated hatred of each other than we could ever understand.

Posted: **Tue Jan 22, 2008 8:21 am**

Ian wrote:
JAS wrote:I don't think racism will ever go away...we have to learn how to live with it.

I think it could go away, but I don't think it ever will. As well as our own issues, we also have people from other cultures bringing their differences to Aus. with them. Some of them have far more deep seated hatred of each other than we could ever understand.

That's the problem. Also going back to my Pa's generation, he had a deep seated hatred for the Japanese (WW2) and fought them in Papua. Lost a brother & sister, and hated anything Japanese. Of course this anger that he carried with him for the rest of his life and his views were passed onto his kids (my Mum included). Although my Mum, knew better and grew up believing such, it is easy to see how a parents hatred/racist view could be passed onto their children.

Posted: **Tue Jan 22, 2008 8:28 am**

Distinguishing one person from a group by colour isn't racist.
It's what you do after that which can be.

Posted: **Tue Jan 22, 2008 5:59 pm**

Dissident wrote:Distinguishing one person from a group by colour isn't racist.
It's what you do after that which can be.

Correct - its when its used to pre-judge (pre-jud-ice) someone negatively because of their colour

Or, even worse, used as an insult against them

The important thing is that its based on the POV of the person receiving the comment .... even tho to someone else the word maybe non-offensive. That's why we have to be so careful.

I think its great its being debated at length at the moment because the more we talk about the more educated we all get about it - which hopefully helps even just a little bit

Posted: **Tue Jan 22, 2008 6:19 pm**

Racism can be stopped and eliminated with education and communication. However prejudice is another matter that will never be eliminated because we disciminate on all sorts of levels in society from how we dress, money we make,what car we drive and which Footy team we go for and thats just a start.

Racism,I think is not just limited to the Anglo-saxon decendents but is rampant in all races. Having worked in Hospitality for over 10 years a lot of the time when an Aboriginal was asked to leave the premises because of a legitimate reason their first response was to yell out Racism. A lot of minority groups in my experience are guilty of more racism than white anglo-saxons.

treat people as individuals no matter what they look like.

Like i told my customers I don't discriminate, I hate everybody!!

Posted: **Wed Jan 23, 2008 9:21 pm**

Racism is only one form of prejudice and abusive discrimination. It is just the one so many focus on.

I really dislike the meat pie advertisement that discriminates against the guys in the restuarant next door eating a nice lunch with a glass of, possibly, a nice Chardonnay. Social-ism in its worst form. It acts to induce social prejudice and hatred, and should be banned, but it is tolerated because it picks on a group who are not currently benefitting from political correctness!

Posted: **Thu Jan 24, 2008 1:43 pm**

can anyone tell me what is actually racist?

If I suffer misfortune, and use an axclamation (nigger), is that racist?
If I say one of the pakis/poms/curry munchers scored 100, & it was a great knock, is that racist?
If someone comes up to me wanting to start a fight, & I say f**k off monkey/bosch/dago, is that racist?

I tend to class racism as not hiring someone because of their race, not slecting someone in a sporting team because of their race, bashing someone because of their race etc...

I play in a footy club, where their are many colours & creeds.
we are able to joke about many differences, without offending each other (ie a guy who is a Lebanese-Muslim gets "Punk'd" with comments about bombs/backpacks/jews etc). At the same time, whilst he doesn't mind joking with his team-,mates, he would not tolerate that from the opposition.

My annoyance is directed towards those who play the race card too flippantly- & this goes across all groups (ie someone says Tendulkar is the best batsmen, & I say "no, Ponting is", & they reply "well you're just racist" or as above, someone gets removed from licensed premises for being intoxicated, & play the race card...)

Racism isn't black or white.

Posted: **Thu Jan 24, 2008 1:54 pm**

Punk Rooster wrote:can anyone tell me what is actually racist?

If I suffer misfortune, and use an axclamation (nigger), is that racist?
If I say one of the pakis/poms/curry munchers scored 100, & it was a great knock, is that racist?
If someone comes up to me wanting to start a fight, & I say f**k off monkey/bosch/dago, is that racist?

IF I Tell FC she's a spinster because she's over 30?

I tend to class racism as not hiring someone because of their race, not slecting someone in a sporting team because of their race, bashing someone because of their race etc...

I play in a footy club, where their are many colours & creeds.
we are able to joke about many differences, without offending each other (ie a guy who is a Lebanese-Muslim gets "Punk'd" with comments about bombs/backpacks/jews etc). At the same time, whilst he doesn't mind joking with his team-,mates, he would not tolerate that from the opposition.

My annoyance is directed towards those who play the race card too flippantly- & this goes across all groups (ie someone says Tendulkar is the best batsmen, & I say "no, Ponting is", & they reply "well you're just racist" or as above, someone gets removed from licensed premises for being intoxicated, & play the race card...)

Racism isn't black or white.

Posted: **Thu Jan 24, 2008 1:57 pm**

Punk Rooster wrote:I tend to class racism as not hiring someone because of their race, not slecting someone in a sporting team because of their race, bashing someone because of their race etc...

To me, that's discrimination (because of race), but not racism?
Then again if you DO that, you could be considered a racist..

*shrug*

It's extremely grey...
(Hmm, can I say grey?)

Posted: **Thu Jan 24, 2008 2:00 pm**

It's a good question Punky and I'd imagine many of us have different views on what qualifies as racist or not.

I recall talking to a bloke at work who'd only been in Oz from England for a few months ... We all used to crack English/Pommy jokes and he took them in the spirit intended, as we also did when he had a crack back at us based on our Aussiedom - What did surprise me one day, when talking with him about cricket, I said "Naa the Paki's are too undsicplined to ever be the best" ... He visibly shuddered at my comment and I quizzed him as to why, to which he replied "You can't say that!" with a look of disbelief on his face (He actually repeated it a few times)

I kinda scratched my head wondering what I'd said wrong, and it was the use of the word "Paki's" ... My intention had only ever been to shorten the word Pakistan, as we do with so many words here, certainly no offensive connotation as there was zero intent to slag them.

Now had I been inadvertently racist with my remark, or had he been overly sensitive?

Posted: **Thu Jan 24, 2008 2:03 pm**

I am on a YahooGroup cricket group, and we've talked about "paki" a lot.

To us, it's just a shortened version of Pakistani, but in England, and other parts (ie sub continent) it's considered extremely racist.

Posted: **Thu Jan 24, 2008 2:17 pm**

Dissident wrote:I am on a YahooGroup cricket group, and we've talked about "paki" a lot.

To us, it's just a shortened version of Pakistani, but in England, and other parts (ie sub continent) it's considered extremely racist.

So should he learn to accept the comment here in Australia, or do we/I need to change to avoid being labelled racist?

Will the terms chick/sheila/lass etc., earn us the term sexist?

Posted: **Thu Jan 24, 2008 2:27 pm**

Constance_Perm wrote:
Dissident wrote:I am on a YahooGroup cricket group, and we've talked about "paki" a lot.

To us, it's just a shortened version of Pakistani, but in England, and other parts (ie sub continent) it's considered extremely racist.

So should he learn to accept the comment here in Australia, or do we/I need to change to avoid being labelled racist?

Will the terms chick/sheila/lass etc., earn us the term sexist?

I don't know ...

He's not from Pakistan... neither are you .. you are saying it to yourselves... but not a Pakistani person.

Maybe just because HE thinks it's racist, doesn't mean it is?

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