SA Footy

Hey ladies, gents.

Just after some advice.

Yesterday my wife got a call at home about our next door neighbour. I wont mention the organisation concerned but they identified themselves as ".... from Sydney". They started asking questions about our neighbour's personal circumstances, whether they'd moved out, whether anyone was home, why they weren't answering the phone etc. The main reason for calling was because 'they weren't answering their phone'.

My wife did the right thing and said "that's none of your business". They asked if we could pass their name onto the next door neighbour. We didn't disclose if the neighbours lived there but said yes we'd put the name and number in the letterbox and it was up to them to call you back if they still lived there.

I start walking next door, and the people across the road, and the neighbours on the other side of the house concerned are walking to the house with notes as well. 4 houses in our street were called about this particular house.

I rang this orgnisation late yesterday and asked "why are you calling houses in our street?", they said again that they'd tried to call this particular house several times with no answer. I said to them "but their affairs have nothing to do with us", they said that they normally use this technique to get people in touch with them. I asked them if they considered that they'd been not only invading our privacy, but were harrassing us with phone calls. I asked them what would happen if we kept getting phone calls from you and this guys response was initially "don't answer your phone" and then when quizzed said "just feel free to hang up on us".

Between our neighbours we now realise that this organisation is a debt collection agency from Sydney.

I would consider that a massive invasion of privacy now that we know the debt collectors are after one of our neighbours.

So back to the subject title....have I got grounds to make a complaint, and if so, who to?

Yes this is a sad thing in today's society .I don't have any easy answers for you but why not contact consumer affairs they may have an answer .
Pass the companies name on to consumer affairs .

Yes, consumer affairs are the place to report them, and possibly the Privacy Commissioner - or whatever the title is.

I have mixed feelings about pursuing debtors. On the one hand you feel for those who are genuinely struggling, but on the other hand there are those who run up debt, knowing they have no capacity or intention to pay, and are deliberately stealing your time when they contract for services.

Harrassing neighbours is a bit over the top though. Perhaps you should send them an account for "Consultancy Fees", followed up with a notice from your debt collector!

Psyber wrote:Yes, consumer affairs are the place to report them, and possibly the Privacy Commissioner - or whatever the title is.

I have mixed feelings about pursuing debtors. On the one hand you feel for those who are genuinely struggling, but on the other hand there are those who run up debt, knowing they have no capacity or intention to pay, and are deliberately stealing your time when they contract for services.

Harrassing neighbours is a bit over the top though. Perhaps you should send them an account for "Consultancy Fees", followed up with a notice from your debt collector!

I have mixed feelings re people who run up "debts".As a long time employed person who has never earned huge amounts of money .This job 14 years last job 13 years.
I find it very funny or hard to believe certain people that get granted credit .In my case I was lucky enough to get a low interest home loan back 20 years ago.Then the bank manager laughed when I went in for a normal home loan.Never the less he gave me the low interest loan (almost paid off now) but left me with the statement until you pay off this loan you will never get another loan .And he in fact was and is correct.When we as a family needed to buy something ie a CAR to get me to work (public transport is a joke)to pay my bills I was knocked back.Even trying to get a PC many years ago as a rent to buy from a big computer shop was a big fat "NO".
All this has lead my wife and I to pay cash for every thing .We can not get credit we save money up .Of course we have never tried Finance companies but family and friends have and I will not go that path.
So no credit rating but at least when we pay cash for products we get nice big fat DISCOUNTS as will happen shortly on a big purchase.

I think myself lucky that I am a bad credit risk .Slow and Steady may be boring for some but it will win the day in the end .And what I own will always be mine and not a creditor!!

Mickyj wrote: I have mixed feelings re people who run up "debts".As a long time employed person who has never earned huge amounts of money .This job 14 years last job 13 years.
I find it very funny or hard to believe certain people that get granted credit .In my case I was lucky enough to get a low interest home loan back 20 years ago.Then the bank manager laughed when I went in for a normal home loan.Never the less he gave me the low interest loan (almost paid off now) but left me with the statement until you pay off this loan you will never get another loan .And he in fact was and is correct.When we as a family needed to buy something ie a CAR to get me to work (public transport is a joke)to pay my bills I was knocked back.Even trying to get a PC many years ago as a rent to buy from a big computer shop was a big fat "NO".
All this has lead my wife and I to pay cash for every thing .We can not get credit we save money up .Of course we have never tried Finance companies but family and friends have and I will not go that path.
So no credit rating but at least when we pay cash for products we get nice big fat DISCOUNTS as will happen shortly on a big purchase.

I think myself lucky that I am a bad credit risk .Slow and Steady may be boring for some but it will win the day in the end .And what I own will always be mine and not a creditor!!

Yes Micky you are right! My parents never went into debt and always paid cash or went without. My father bought his first car - a second hand Cortina - when he retired.

I've borrowed to invest, or for business, but only because I have been fortunate enough to have the income to support it. Ironically, because I can afford the loan the ANZ always give me an interest concession of 0.7% or so... The tragedy is often among those who can get credit and are offered more than they can carry, at increasingly high interest rates, until they are borrowing on credit cards at 20% plus. I really think lending institutions should be required by law to not lend amounts to people that they have no hope of paying for, and to wear the loss if they do so. That may restrain housing cost inflation, and other price inflation too. It seems a better option than allowing an open go then increasing interest rates and squeezing those who should never have been lent so much in the first place.

Psyber wrote:

Mickyj wrote: I have mixed feelings re people who run up "debts".As a long time employed person who has never earned huge amounts of money .This job 14 years last job 13 years.
I find it very funny or hard to believe certain people that get granted credit .In my case I was lucky enough to get a low interest home loan back 20 years ago.Then the bank manager laughed when I went in for a normal home loan.Never the less he gave me the low interest loan (almost paid off now) but left me with the statement until you pay off this loan you will never get another loan .And he in fact was and is correct.When we as a family needed to buy something ie a CAR to get me to work (public transport is a joke)to pay my bills I was knocked back.Even trying to get a PC many years ago as a rent to buy from a big computer shop was a big fat "NO".
All this has lead my wife and I to pay cash for every thing .We can not get credit we save money up .Of course we have never tried Finance companies but family and friends have and I will not go that path.
So no credit rating but at least when we pay cash for products we get nice big fat DISCOUNTS as will happen shortly on a big purchase.

I think myself lucky that I am a bad credit risk .Slow and Steady may be boring for some but it will win the day in the end .And what I own will always be mine and not a creditor!!

Yes Micky you are right! My parents never went into debt and always paid cash or went without. My father bought his first car - a second hand Cortina - when he retired.

I've borrowed to invest, or for business, but only because I have been fortunate enough to have the income to support it. Ironically, because I can afford the loan the ANZ always give me an interest concession of 0.7% or so... The tragedy is often among those who can get credit and are offered more than they can carry, at increasingly high interest rates, until they are borrowing on credit cards at 20% plus. I really think lending institutions should be required by law to not lend amounts to people that they have no hope of paying for, and to wear the loss if they do so. That may restrain housing cost inflation, and other price inflation too. It seems a better option than allowing an open go then increasing interest rates and squeezing those who should never have been lent so much in the first place.

I agree with what you have said Psyber.
The amount of people I know that go out and spend and spend and spend on credit and never own what they have bought.Then get given more credit to go out and keep buying .
Most but not all have well paid jobs or in the case of couples both work.They will go away on trips etc when on leave and then look at me as the poor cousin cause I as don't go away when on leave .Funny I bet I have more fun staying home and going fishing . Sometimes I have seen or heard about their credit card debts not worth the effort IMHO.
Not to mention I am the guy they hate to ask for donations as I never take money to work !!!
And here I feel guilty about lunch at the footy from the BBQ
The wife calls us Asset rich Money poor

Mickyj wrote: The wife calls us Asset rich Money poor

Much better than the other way around.
Once people owe multi-thousands on credit cards at huge interest rates it is almost impossible to get back out from under short of destroying the credit cards and pouring everything into paying them off first.
All my income goes straight into a mortgage offset account, and I expect to be able to discharge my mortgage soon. Then I'll think about the two cars we own that are more than 12 years old - both have only 140K Km on the clock so are probable good for a while with some minor repairs I think. We got 13 years out of an early 1980s Range Rover, and it was only the English electricals that pensioned that off.

Psyber wrote:

Mickyj wrote: The wife calls us Asset rich Money poor

Much better than the other way around.
Once people owe multi-thousands on credit cards at huge interest rates it is almost impossible to get back out from under short of destroying the credit cards and pouring everything into paying them off first.
All my income goes straight into a mortgage offset account, and I expect to be able to discharge my mortgage soon. Then I'll think about the two cars we own that are more than 12 years old - both have only 140K Km on the clock so are probable good for a while with some minor repairs I think. We got 13 years out of an early 1980s Range Rover, and it was only the English electricals that pensioned that off.

Your better than me Psyber I bought a brand new laser in 1981 I think .Owned it for 20 yrs then got a sigma now own a 96 falcon on gas .Lots more k's on the clock than yours but the LPG lasts me longer than Petrol did in the sigma.Go figure I was going through 40 bucks a week before petrol got over a dollar 20 .Now I just put in 20 bucks a week no worries .
Five more years and this Process worker will finally own this house

Mickyj wrote:

Psyber wrote:

Mickyj wrote: The wife calls us Asset rich Money poor

Much better than the other way around.
Once people owe multi-thousands on credit cards at huge interest rates it is almost impossible to get back out from under short of destroying the credit cards and pouring everything into paying them off first.
All my income goes straight into a mortgage offset account, and I expect to be able to discharge my mortgage soon. Then I'll think about the two cars we own that are more than 12 years old - both have only 140K Km on the clock so are probable good for a while with some minor repairs I think. We got 13 years out of an early 1980s Range Rover, and it was only the English electricals that pensioned that off.

Your better than me Psyber I bought a brand new laser in 1981 I think .Owned it for 20 yrs then got a sigma now own a 96 falcon on gas .Lots more k's on the clock than yours but the LPG lasts me longer than Petrol did in the sigma.Go figure I was going through 40 bucks a week before petrol got over a dollar 20 .Now I just put in 20 bucks a week no worries .
Five more years and this Process worker will finally own this house

Good for you mate. I did a bit of process work as a student - packing Ash, calcium chloride, and [ugh] caustic soda crystals at ICI, Osborne.
After two weeks on the last and I was coughing blood so they moved me to hooking-on for the mobile crane.
Next year I took less money to be a Bus Conductor - it seemed a safer option!

Psyber wrote:

Mickyj wrote:

Psyber wrote:

Mickyj wrote: The wife calls us Asset rich Money poor

Much better than the other way around.
Once people owe multi-thousands on credit cards at huge interest rates it is almost impossible to get back out from under short of destroying the credit cards and pouring everything into paying them off first.
All my income goes straight into a mortgage offset account, and I expect to be able to discharge my mortgage soon. Then I'll think about the two cars we own that are more than 12 years old - both have only 140K Km on the clock so are probable good for a while with some minor repairs I think. We got 13 years out of an early 1980s Range Rover, and it was only the English electricals that pensioned that off.

Your better than me Psyber I bought a brand new laser in 1981 I think .Owned it for 20 yrs then got a sigma now own a 96 falcon on gas .Lots more k's on the clock than yours but the LPG lasts me longer than Petrol did in the sigma.Go figure I was going through 40 bucks a week before petrol got over a dollar 20 .Now I just put in 20 bucks a week no worries .
Five more years and this Process worker will finally own this house

Good for you mate. I did a bit of process work as a student - packing Ash, calcium chloride, and [ugh] caustic soda crystals at ICI, Osborne.
After two weeks on the last and I was coughing blood so they moved me to hooking-on for the mobile crane.
Next year I took less money to be a Bus Conductor - it seemed a safer option!

My job is not that interesting or dangerous mate but it is as boring as hell . But they put money in my account and that's all that matters Keeps the wolves from the door just

It's illegal for debt collectors to embarrass a debtor by letting neighbours know about their situation. I'm not sure whether the situation you describe is illegal or not.

I'm not sure exactly which organisation regulates debt colectors and I think there is some overlap between the ACCC, ASIC and the SA office of Business and Consumer Affairs. The ACCC would be a good place to start and if they are not the right agency they'd tell you which one was.

The situation is legal, provided they do not disclose any specific details to any third party.

If they continue to call then they could be in breach of the debt collection guidelines set out in the Trade Practices Act (I can send you these if you wish, but they are hardly an exciting read). By calling lots of neighbours they don't need to bother one in particular too often. Perfectly legitimate debt collection practice.

Mickyj, Psyber, Big Shrek and Smac... thanks!

Mickyj, Psyber - my old man told me right from the start to get into debt to make money. To do that, I had to get a credit rating. He advised me borrow for my second car and pay it off before time. I did.

He then advised me to buy an investment unit. A kid on about $6000 in his first job... I couldn't even contemplate a mortgage of $70000. Two years later, on a bit better money, I signed on the dotted line. I'd just turned 21 and had a $70000 mortgage.

This mentality has held me in great stead in the past and into the future. Yes, you can get yourself into all sorts of trouble getting into debt, but if you make that money work for you, you're better off in the long run.

I've got an 18mth old daughter and I'll be telling her the same thing. Get into "good" debt (not credit card debt) early.

Shrek, Smac - I'll definitely try those options, thanks. I fear that what they've done is legal unfortunately. Ethically not right but since when have debt collection agencies been ethical in their dealings?

They disclosed only who they were after, but not actual circumstances around why they were after this person. It's a shame that instead of the old "knock on the door" that credit companies used to do, they start harrassing us.

After speaking to the next door neighbour last night, they don't even know where this person is, let alone all the debt they're wracking up.

If anything comes of it, I'll update this post.

I have been on the other end of this, having to chase people who simply don't pay small debts because they figure you can't afford to collect them. They knowingly contract services they have no intention of paying for. Increasingly, small businesses are starting to have to demand money up front - for example. for major dental work, and writing legal reports as I did.

The problem with the "Knock on the door" is that, in Vic. at least, these cold calls are outsourced to licenced agents and it costs $45 a shot whether they find the person or not, and often while they suspect they have found the person the person denies their identity and multiple calls may be needed to confirm it before a summons can be issued. By contrast the collection agencies staff do it for the 20% [negotiable] they charge on the debt no matter how many calls they make. So, if 1000 people owe you $200 you don't pay for house calls.

Similarly in Victoria they have "eased court congestion" by astronomically increasing the fees to lodge a debt claim. In that scenario, the economics are against simply getting an order for payment of a debt. Although all those finding and sueing costs are usually then awarded against the debtor, you then find the experienced evaders disappear again. So, what you do is find them any way you or the debt collector can, and, in the past, I was happy to let a receptionist, whose daughter was a police officer, "mysteriously" find new addresses for me, and pass them on. Once they have the contact details the debt collectors try to coerce the debtor into paying by pointing out that once they are on a list as being pursued for debt they may find difficulty getting credit in future.

With the persistent evaders, the temptation to use the Hells Angels who guarantee to collect any debt for 50% is sometimes strong....

ring leon byner 5AA - he will get you onto the right people