SA Footy

I don't know whether we have many regular users here, but this is an interesting one..

Cannabis link to bipolar development Addiction 2007; 102:1181-82, 1251-60.

Cannabis use is associated with a fivefold increase in the risk of a first diagnosis of bipolar disorder in adults, a prospective study suggests for the first time. Dutch researchers, who analysed data from more than 3000 adults, also found use of the drug more than five times in a lifetime was associated with a 1.6-fold increase in the risk of a first diagnosis of major depression.

Based on the findings, they estimated cannabis use might be associated with up to 6% of new cases of major depression and 34% of new cases of bipolar disorder over a three-year period. Although they had corrected for strong confounders, such as parental psychiatric history and childhood trauma, the researchers said the study could not demonstrate a causal relationship between cannabis use and mood disorders.

“However, considering the strength of the association, as well as indications of a dose-response and plausibility of a physiological mechanism, a causal relationship is more likely for bipolar disorder than major depression,” they said.

An accompanying editorial said this was the first prospective study to examine the associations between cannabis use and the full spectrum of mood and anxiety disorders. It said although the results were intriguing further confirmation was needed.
“And in particular, consideration needs to be given to potential mechanisms that may underlie any association between infrequent lifetime cannabis use and the subsequent development of mood disorders in adulthood,” it stated.

Heard it all before!... (YAWN!)

I think this has some creditability especially for those who have read Michael Slater's book than after one small puff in England all his personal issues came to light and the beginning of the end of his Test career

Will have to read the 2nd half tomorrow, got the munchies real bad maaaan...

A mate of mine suffers with quite serious mental illness to the point where he now has to live with 24 hour supervision from his parents at age 31. He had some issues but seemed to be coping ok until he became a mary jane addict and his illness just went completley out of control, I have absolutley no doubt what so ever that smoking weed caused that to happen....

Sojourner wrote:A mate of mine suffers with quite serious mental illness to the point where he now has to live with 24 hour supervision from his parents at age 31. He had some issues but seemed to be coping ok until he became a mary jane addict and his illness just went completley out of control, I have absolutley no doubt what so ever that smoking weed caused that to happen....

Mull only, no other substances?

if your loose in the first place and you hit it hard every day of course its going to cause issues just like any other drug that people become depended on. You never get to see reality it all becomes a haze

Constance_Perm wrote:Will have to read the 2nd half tomorrow, got the munchies real bad maaaan...

Hooray CP the Hippie Man !!

Constance_Perm wrote:

Sojourner wrote:A mate of mine suffers with quite serious mental illness to the point where he now has to live with 24 hour supervision from his parents at age 31. He had some issues but seemed to be coping ok until he became a mary jane addict and his illness just went completley out of control, I have absolutley no doubt what so ever that smoking weed caused that to happen....

Mull only, no other substances?

There was obviously a predisposition to mental instability exacerbated by heavy drug use

Constance_Perm wrote:Mull only, no other substances?

Afraid so!

There is quite a lot of research to suggest that mary jane does cause mental illnesses like Bi-Polar and Schitzophrenia to be made worse yet it is most likely as suggested an issue with a pre-disposition

Sojourner wrote:

Constance_Perm wrote:Mull only, no other substances?

Afraid so!

There is quite a lot of research to suggest that mary jane does cause mental illnesses like Bi-Polar and Schitzophrenia to be made worse yet it is most likely as suggested an issue with a pre-disposition

Was that always the case mate, or more so these days because of the genetically modified strains of cannabis and the increased potency?

Like any substance of abuse, it has to have a downside:

Drink heaps every day- Stuffs the Liver
Smoke heaps every day- goodbye lungs
Mull up every day- mind F$%ked.

But as with all these- it may affect 1 person, yet have no affect on another. Its all in the genetics...

I'm glad they have found a potential link- I have seen a few mates who use regularly go off the rail and claim it has nothing to do with the green... and others who have cut it out have become better blokes for it.

Personally I cant stand the stuff- particularly when people cone up right next to you at a concert etc...the stuff stinks!

I was not going to comment further unless there was some interest in the issue, but there seems to be.

It appears that a lot of people can use the MJ without a lot of trouble except perhaps becoming a bit vague and befuddled over time - becoming a "head" [pot-head] in 1970s terms. There has been a lot of evidence suggesting the "vulnerable" - those with genetic predispostions to depression, paranoia, Bipolar Disorder, and Schizophrenia - were the only ones likely to be made seriously unwell. The incidence of that genetic predisposition in the general community, using strict criteria for diagnosis, is about 8% for depression, 2% for Bipolar Disorder and 0.8% for Schizophrenia. However, those figures can be increased if you count the marginally predisposed - in Bipolar Disorder the incidence including the marginal group is estimated at 6% rather than 2%.

Also, the MJ of today is stronger than the old stuff due to plant selection and hydroponic techniques, so it may be having more impact.

There is only one study I have found suggesting MJ use increases the risk of getting a psychiatric disorder above the genetic risk and thus can be accused of acting as a causative rather than an unmasking agent. That was a study of kids under 17 using MJ daily, that revealed a risk of getting Schizophrenia increased substantially above the genetic lottery. Speculatively this is assumed to be something to do with its effect on the immature brain.

I personally know of a number of cases where children and spouses of heavy users have developed bipolar condition. I smoked a bit myself in my Uni days, but my opinion now is that it is a potentially dangerous drug and I wouldn't touch it now. Drug experimentation can come back and bite you, an aquantance of mine experimented ONCE with injecting heroin, found out about 20 years later he has hepatitis C almost certainly as a result of that one incident. Today I am of the opinion that all drugs should be legal, so that the quality can be controlled and most importantly they can be taxed. It would also remove the stigma attached to drug users and would put many criminals out of business. I often wonder about strong anti-drug politicians do they have a vested business interest in keeping these substances illegal?

mick wrote: Today I am of the opinion that all drugs should be legal, so that the quality can be controlled and most importantly they can be taxed. It would also remove the stigma attached to drug users and would put many criminals out of business.

That will never, ever work.

If the Government legalised drugs and imposed a tax on them what do you think criminals will turn around and do? Make their own drugs cheaper than the legally available ones, by diminishing the quality!!
Look at it this way - if you were a heavily addicted crack user, whose drugs would you buy when you need a fix? The legal, high quality and expensive cocaine, or the cheap crack from your local dealer?
If you were a teenager popping E's at a night club, would you pay $100 for a "legal" pill or $20 for a disco biccie from the Asian bloke standing at the back of the room?

Legalising drugs would just indefinitely compound the many issues that are caused by drugs in the first place. The "stigma" attached to these types of drugs is 100% warranted, it becomes fact.

A pharmaceutical company should be able to produce "E" for 50 cents a pill or less, if mass producing it on a government contract, but given the fact that the occasional user will have their Serotonin level go sky high, their body temperature follow suit, and poach part of their brain, the liability issue would be a killer as well as the drug..

Back yard boys probably run it up for less than a dollar a pill too as they don't have to invest in Pharmaceutical level computer controlled temperature equipment to pass Pharmaceutical regulations.

The real reason the "legalise drugs" push can't win is the fear of loss of productivity in industry, welfare dependence by inactivated users, and increased road and industrial accidents due to residual effects on judgement. Sure these all happen with alcohol too, and I expect if it were a new product in our society it would be on the banned list too. And a government could be accused of legalising drugs to keep the people docile - a new "Opiate of the masses" to excite the activists.

The tax issue? Yes, a former acquaintance of mine who had Schizophrenia suggested he had the solution for our economic woes back in the 1980s - "Just put a government run Heroin dispenser next to the government run Poker machine on every street corner."

Constance_Perm wrote:Was that always the case mate, or more so these days because of the genetically modified strains of cannabis and the increased potency?

Not really sure to be honest Constance, could well be the case though!

On the other side of the coin, I have a friend who was a Baptist minister for most of his life who has a condtion called periphial neuropathy which somehow causes him to have bad nerve pain in his fingers and that standard pain killers dont touch, after a particuarly bad time of it his son suggested that he try Mary Jane flavoured Biscuits which a mate of his had access to, long story short his pain is no longer and he feels it has actually gone some way towards curing the condition. Cons is that he has put on about 15kilos though!

Sojourner wrote:On the other side of the coin, I have a friend who was a Baptist minister for most of his life who has a condtion called periphial neuropathy which somehow causes him to have bad nerve pain in his fingers and that standard pain killers dont touch, after a particuarly bad time of it his son suggested that he try Mary Jane flavoured Biscuits which a mate of his had access to, long story short his pain is no longer and he feels it has actually gone some way towards curing the condition. Cons is that he has put on about 15kilos though!

Yes that is true. Toxic substances can have beneficial effects, and this should be explored.
In the 19th century it was found that an extract of the poisonous Digitalis purpurea plant, extracted from the ground up plant in alcohol, could be used to treat heart failure. "Tincture of Digitalis" was in use right into the 1960s, until a chemist worked out that two active components could be isolated, one of which had most of the benefits and one of which caused most of the toxic effects - nausea, vomiting, green vision. They were named Digoxin and Digitoxin, and Digoxin replaced the tincture. Subsequently synthetic versions of Digoxin were developed that had even less unpleasant effects.

Sojourner wrote:

Constance_Perm wrote:Was that always the case mate, or more so these days because of the genetically modified strains of cannabis and the increased potency?

Not really sure to be honest Constance, could well be the case though!

I doubt that any scientific reports dating beyond twenty years ago would have been able to accurately document links. Even the scientific method in modern reports is questionable.

However, the selective breeding has led to the market being dominated by quick finishing indicas (too make fast cash) that have very high levels of THC, giving that extremely munted feeling. Other strains such as sativa or haze have a higher ratio of cannibidols (which are 'better' for you) to THC and are more stimulating, but traditionally don't grow as prolifically.

It's not even high THC levels that would put me off, but rather the added chemicals (nitrates and hormones) that are awash in most cannabis. What effect are these having on the brain? How could they be linked to incidences of mental illness? As yet, I believe it's largely undocumented.

So, if I were to be a smoker, give me some outdoor sativa anyday.