Are trams worth the $6M we paid for them?

[dedja]

Noticed the article in today's chipwrapper about the cost of the aircon refit for the first lot of new trams ...

http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/stor ... 01,00.html

TRANSADELAIDE has spent a hefty $3.5 million fixing air-conditioning units in its troubled tram fleet over the past two years.

The cost equates to $318,000 per tram or about $63,600 to upgrade each airconditioning unit across the three-year-old 11-tram Bombardier Flexity Classic fleet.

The costly replacement program was prompted by chronic shortcomings in the $5.5 million German-made trams - which started appearing on city tram tracks in January 2006 - and couldn't cope with Adelaide's sweltering summer heat.

...

Mr Ridgway wanted assurances from Transport Minister Patrick Conlon that a new generation of Alstom Citadis trams, bought from Spain for $36m, would not face similar problems.

So is it good value for money if each tram costs around $6M each? ... jeez, for that money you could get a few fighter jets.

What would a bus be worth, maybe $200k-$300K at most? So for the $70M-$100M that we have paid for 11 trams and creating new routes (a couple of Kms here and there), surely that money could have been better spent on modernising the bus fleet (currently no O'Bahn bus has aircon, although that is changing soon ... and yes I know buses are managed by private contracts now) and developing priority lanes, etc. Or bringing forward the spend to modernise and electrify the rail network.

Is it just me?

[Punk Rooster]

does anyone see the irony....

we're currently building an $x million overpass on South Rd, Glandore, & at the same time, we're putting a tramline through a major Port Rd intersection!

[Psyber]

Yes it may have made more sense to have invested in electric buses with Solar panels on the roof to help keep the batteries topped up..
I'd support anything to get diesel vehicles off the road in view of the fact that diesel engines spew cancer causing agents in their exhausts. [Biodiesels do too.]

Once we have enough electrical power generation, though, petrol stations and petrol engines can be converted to function with hydrogen fuel which is clean.

[Ian]

Yes it may have made more sense to have invested in electric buses with Solar panels on the roof to help keep the batteries topped up..
I'd support anything to get diesel vehicles off the road in view of the fact that diesel engines spew cancer causing agents in their exhausts. [Biodiesels do too.]

Once we have enough electrical power generation, though, petrol stations and petrol engines can be converted to function with hydrogen fuel which is clean.

Psyber, things aren't always what they seem, you need to look at the whole picture

There is a electric bus currently going around, promoted as green but leaving a bigger carbon foot print and costing more to run than a diesel one, batteries aren't as reliable as was expected and are very costly to purchase and create a shit load of emissions to produce.

[heater31]

Hopefully this second batch of trams have better air con than the last lot since we bought them off Spain which would not be foreign to hot days. but as with everything else with media mike I aint holding my breath. He only tells us what we want to hear not what we should

[Psyber]

Yes it may have made more sense to have invested in electric buses with Solar panels on the roof to help keep the batteries topped up..
I'd support anything to get diesel vehicles off the road in view of the fact that diesel engines spew cancer causing agents in their exhausts. [Biodiesels do too.]

Once we have enough electrical power generation, though, petrol stations and petrol engines can be converted to function with hydrogen fuel which is clean.

Psyber, things aren't always what they seem, you need to look at the whole picture

There is a electric bus currently going around, promoted as green but leaving a bigger carbon foot print and costing more to run than a diesel one, batteries aren't as reliable as was expected and are very costly to purchase and create a s***t load of emissions to produce.

Agreed, Ian..
I'm not a big fan of hybrid cars either, for the same reasons, but I really don't like filling the air I have to breathe with carcinogens - that's why I said "I'd support anything" to get rid of the diesel fumes.
Hydrogen fuel is definitely my preferred option, and I'd have preferred to see the money go that way, as it is in Germany.
Sorry I wasn't clear

[Ian]

I think there is still a very long way to go with hydrogen, in the mean time, the latest diesels are far cleaner than diesels have ever been, I know they aren't a long term solution but you have to work with what is available at the time.

[Psyber]

I think there is still a very long way to go with hydrogen, in the mean time, the latest diesels are far cleaner than diesels have ever been, I know they aren't a long term solution but you have to work with what is available at the time.

It is not all that far off.
The German government and BMW are jointly rolling out a hydrogen fueling chain at fuel stations now and BMW are selling hydrogen powered cars in Europe.
Petrol fueled cars are easily converted to run on hydrogen - diesels not so easily I understand.
What is needed is an adequate electrical supply to extract hydrogen from sea water and compress it.
A Thorium fission plant next to any desalination station would do it, and would power the desalination system more cheaply than AGL too.

[Sojourner]

There has been some discussion of electrifying the O'Bahn network, effectivley making the O'Bahn buses the same as the old Trolley Buses we used to have of which some still remain at the St Kilda Tram Museam. Modern Trolley Buses however do not need to be continiously on the cabled electric power as they also run on batteries which take them off the grid, hence the busway could be electrified but no cabling would need to be placed in the city streets which might be appealing to some.

[redden whites]

does anyone see the irony....

we're currently building an $x million overpass on South Rd, Glandore, & at the same time, we're putting a tramline through a major Port Rd intersection!

Won't the tram cross that intesection with the Port Rd traffic on a green light just like it runs down King William St with the traffic now??? Thus having no effect on the traffic compared to the South rd level crossing shutting down traffic flows every 7.5 min during peak times which will soon be no more???

[oldfella]

Mate,

the tram crossing will stop/delay the right turn movements to head north & south - given that these are rather large then queueing and potential delays to east-west movements are also a potential.

Every Government wants its memorial?

[Iron Fist]

I dont see why there needed to be a tram line put down pt road
there is a perfectly good train line 100m across from it
spend the cash on doing up the trains and train stations and we wouldnt have the traffic hold ups
and could have spent some of that money on more important things!

[Psyber]

I needed to go from Victoria Drive to the western end of Currie St yesterday afternoon.
It was a bit of a nuisance not being able to do a right turn from King William Street into Currie Street, and having to drive around Victoria Square.
Next time I'll look at going out of Victoria Drive at the Frome Street end I guess...
[I might have walked if I hadn't been on my way to Wingfield afterwards and a bit short of time.]

[hotpies]

I dont see why there needed to be a tram line put down pt road
there is a perfectly good train line 100m across from it
spend the cash on doing up the trains and train stations and we wouldnt have the traffic hold ups
and could have spent some of that money on more important things!

I agree. All they need is a train station near the entertainment centre with a secure walking path from it to port road. They are spending hundreds of millions just so a couple of hundred people can get on the tram after concerts a couple of times a week. Apparantly the long term plan is to extend it all the way down port road to port adelaide and semaphore...what a waste of money since the north haven train line already services this area!

[MightyEagles]

I dont see why there needed to be a tram line put down pt road
there is a perfectly good train line 100m across from it
spend the cash on doing up the trains and train stations and we wouldnt have the traffic hold ups
and could have spent some of that money on more important things!

I agree. All they need is a train station near the entertainment centre with a secure walking path from it to port road. They are spending hundreds of millions just so a couple of hundred people can get on the tram after concerts a couple of times a week. Apparantly the long term plan is to extend it all the way down port road to port adelaide and semaphore...what a waste of money since the north haven train line already services this area!

I heard that they were going to extend it to AAMI Stadium, which will be great for football fans.

[Dirko]

I needed to go from Victoria Drive to the western end of Currie St yesterday afternoon.
It was a bit of a nuisance not being able to do a right turn from King William Street into Currie Street, and having to drive around Victoria Square.
Next time I'll look at going out of Victoria Drive at the Frome Street end I guess...
[I might have walked if I hadn't been on my way to Wingfield afterwards and a bit short of time.]

I cannot work out why they don't allow hook turns like they do in Melbourne. Works a treat, and never had a problem with driving in Melbourne using them.

[Iron Fist]

I dont see why there needed to be a tram line put down pt road
there is a perfectly good train line 100m across from it
spend the cash on doing up the trains and train stations and we wouldnt have the traffic hold ups
and could have spent some of that money on more important things!

I agree. All they need is a train station near the entertainment centre with a secure walking path from it to port road. They are spending hundreds of millions just so a couple of hundred people can get on the tram after concerts a couple of times a week. Apparantly the long term plan is to extend it all the way down port road to port adelaide and semaphore...what a waste of money since the north haven train line already services this area!

they have brompton which is directly across the road
about a 400m walk, do it up and maybe look at a sky walk or something of the sort
this tram shit is crap!
they would have been much better to put it down henley beach rd to the square as there is no rail trasnport around that area!

[Zelezny Chucks]

I needed to go from Victoria Drive to the western end of Currie St yesterday afternoon.
It was a bit of a nuisance not being able to do a right turn from King William Street into Currie Street, and having to drive around Victoria Square.
Next time I'll look at going out of Victoria Drive at the Frome Street end I guess...
[I might have walked if I hadn't been on my way to Wingfield afterwards and a bit short of time.]

I cannot work out why they don't allow hook turns like they do in Melbourne. Works a treat, and never had a problem with driving in Melbourne using them.

Adelaide drivers are useless as is imagine the chaos this would cause.

[Punk Rooster]

I dont see why there needed to be a tram line put down pt road
there is a perfectly good train line 100m across from it
spend the cash on doing up the trains and train stations and we wouldnt have the traffic hold ups
and could have spent some of that money on more important things!

I agree. All they need is a train station near the entertainment centre with a secure walking path from it to port road. They are spending hundreds of millions just so a couple of hundred people can get on the tram after concerts a couple of times a week. Apparantly the long term plan is to extend it all the way down port road to port adelaide and semaphore...what a waste of money since the north haven train line already services this area!

I heard that they were going to extend it to AAMI Stadium, which will be great for football fans.

only if it goes to Prospect...