Who is the "Greatest Ever Sportsman"?

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Re: Who is the "Greatest Ever Sportsman"?

Postby Booney » Wed Jan 31, 2018 11:37 am

teamdefense2017 wrote:My two bobs worth....and it is really hard because all mentioned are amazing sportsman!

On the surface Bradman's numbers suggest he was so significantly better than anyone before or since that he is the best.
He averaged twice as much as the next best. Not just averaging more, but twice as much.
Not sure any other sportsman can claim that?


He also played against only 4 teams in his time, 3 of which he played only 5 times.

His numbers v India and South Africa suggest they weren't particularly polished. His numbers against England look to be the most accurate reflection of his unquestionable talents.

Versus Mat Inns NO 100s50s 0s HS Runs Avg
England 37 63 7 19 12 6 334 5028 89.79
India 5 6 2 4 1 0 201 715 178.75
South Africa 5 5 1 4 0 0 299* 806 201.50
West Indies 5 6 0 2 0 1 223 447 74.50
Overall (4) 52 80 10 29 13 7 334 6996 99.94
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Re: Who is the "Greatest Ever Sportsman"?

Postby amber_fluid » Wed Jan 31, 2018 11:38 am

teamdefense2017 wrote:My two bobs worth....and it is really hard because all mentioned are amazing sportsman!

On the surface Bradman's numbers suggest he was so significantly better than anyone before or since that he is the best.
He averaged twice as much as the next best. Not just averaging more, but twice as much.
Not sure any other sportsman can claim that?


You’re right it really is hard to argue against Bradman with his statistics.
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Re: Who is the "Greatest Ever Sportsman"?

Postby Booney » Wed Jan 31, 2018 11:53 am

Bart Cummings was once asked which of the horses he had trained was the greatest :

"I don't compare champions, I just admire them".
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Re: Who is the "Greatest Ever Sportsman"?

Postby Lightning McQueen » Wed Jan 31, 2018 11:58 am

Booney wrote:
teamdefense2017 wrote:My two bobs worth....and it is really hard because all mentioned are amazing sportsman!

On the surface Bradman's numbers suggest he was so significantly better than anyone before or since that he is the best.
He averaged twice as much as the next best. Not just averaging more, but twice as much.
Not sure any other sportsman can claim that?


He also played against only 4 teams in his time, 3 of which he played only 5 times.

His numbers v India and South Africa suggest they weren't particularly polished. His numbers against England look to be the most accurate reflection of his unquestionable talents.

Versus Mat Inns NO 100s50s 0s HS Runs Avg
England 37 63 7 19 12 6 334 5028 89.79
India 5 6 2 4 1 0 201 715 178.75
South Africa 5 5 1 4 0 0 299* 806 201.50
West Indies 5 6 0 2 0 1 223 447 74.50
Overall (4) 52 80 10 29 13 7 334 6996 99.94


Struggled against the Windies.
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Re: Who is the "Greatest Ever Sportsman"?

Postby morell » Wed Jan 31, 2018 12:43 pm

The issue I have with Bradman is cricket isn't played by the majority of the sporting world. Half of Europe, China, Japan, South America and of course the US don't play cricket. Same argument can be used to refute Gretsky.

For mine it has to be someone from athletics, swimming, Soccer or Basketball.

Out of those it's Bolt, Phelps, Pele and Jordan.

I'd pick Jordan.
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Re: Who is the "Greatest Ever Sportsman"?

Postby jo172 » Wed Jan 31, 2018 12:52 pm

morell wrote:The issue I have with Bradman is cricket isn't played by the majority of the sporting world. Half of Europe, China, Japan, South America and of course the US don't play cricket. Same argument can be used to refute Gretsky.

For mine it has to be someone from athletics, swimming, Soccer or Basketball.

Out of those it's Bolt, Phelps, Pele and Jordan.

I'd pick Jordan.


Basketball barely counts as being played by the majority of the sporting world. Outside of America most of the rest of the world has only really seriously engaged with it in the last 30 years.

Swimming also tends to cut out all but first world countries.

Agree if you want to measure it by equality to access to the sports it needs to be Athletics/Soccer.

To go back to the Mundine thing Boxing has a relatively good claim too
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Re: Who is the "Greatest Ever Sportsman"?

Postby morell » Wed Jan 31, 2018 1:36 pm

Fair points, as always Jo.

I am resistant to pick athletics, to me it’s not really a sporty sport - if you know what I mean. I think team sports should take precedence as you have to interact with humans to achieve an outcome, against other humans who are trying to do the same thing. That’s where the sporting etymology comes from for mine. Then we creep into what is and is not “sport”. Darts? Snooker? Wrestling? Fishing? Weightlifting? MMA? Horse Racing?

I agree that Basketball has only gained worldwide prominence over the last 3-4 decades. I wouldn’t put forward Magic, Kareem, Chamberlain, Russell or Robertson for that very reason despite them being in that upper echelon of Basketball with MJ. But that’s also why I pick Jordan. He created a literal worldwide phenomenon and launched the sport into the mainstream in places never thought possible – such was his athleticism, competitiveness, dominance and brilliance.

He transcended the sport, in other words. The only other person I can think of that has done anything similar during my time is Conor McGregor.
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Re: Who is the "Greatest Ever Sportsman"?

Postby Wedgie » Wed Jan 31, 2018 1:44 pm

I rate Chamberlain higher than Jordan, they had to change rules because Wilt was so amazing.
Over 100 points in a game, 55 rebounds in a game, over 20,000 roots.......
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Re: Who is the "Greatest Ever Sportsman"?

Postby Spargo » Wed Jan 31, 2018 1:46 pm

morell wrote:Fair points, as always Jo.

I am resistant to pick athletics, to me it’s not really a sporty sport - if you know what I mean. I think team sports should take precedence as you have to interact with humans to achieve an outcome, against other humans who are trying to do the same thing. That’s where the sporting etymology comes from for mine. Then we creep into what is and is not “sport”. Darts? Snooker? Wrestling? Fishing? Weightlifting? MMA? Horse Racing?

I agree that Basketball has only gained worldwide prominence over the last 3-4 decades. I wouldn’t put forward Magic, Kareem, Chamberlain, Russell or Robertson for that very reason despite them being in that upper echelon of Basketball with MJ. But that’s also why I pick Jordan. He created a literal worldwide phenomenon and launched the sport into the mainstream in places never thought possible – such was his athleticism, competitiveness, dominance and brilliance.

He transcended the sport, in other words. The only other person I can think of that has done anything similar during my time is Conor McGregor.

If it wasn’t for Bird & Johnson, there might not have been an MJ as such. Those two resurrected and transcended a league that was on its knees & would’ve probably died if it had to wait for Jordan.
In a way, Jordan (who no doubt is the greatest basketballer of all time) was a byproduct of Larry & Magic.
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Re: Who is the "Greatest Ever Sportsman"?

Postby Wedgie » Wed Jan 31, 2018 1:50 pm

I preferred just prior to their era, Dr J, Moses Malone, Abdul Kareem Jamar, etc.
I lost interest in the NBA as Jordan became big.
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Re: Who is the "Greatest Ever Sportsman"?

Postby Dutchy » Wed Jan 31, 2018 1:51 pm

Kelly Slater - winning world championships in his 40's against kids half his age
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Re: Who is the "Greatest Ever Sportsman"?

Postby Lightning McQueen » Wed Jan 31, 2018 1:52 pm

Dutchy wrote:Kelly Slater - winning world championships in his 40's against kids half his age


And having to put up with a girls name.
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Re: Who is the "Greatest Ever Sportsman"?

Postby morell » Wed Jan 31, 2018 1:53 pm

Wedgie wrote:I rate Chamberlain higher than Jordan, they had to change rules because Wilt was so amazing.
Over 100 points in a game, 55 rebounds in a game, over 20,000 roots.......

He was competing against nerdy 6ft white dudes in an era with no three point line and basketball was a back blocks novelty.

He's a legend, but not in Jordan's league.
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Re: Who is the "Greatest Ever Sportsman"?

Postby morell » Wed Jan 31, 2018 1:55 pm

Spargo wrote:
morell wrote:Fair points, as always Jo.

I am resistant to pick athletics, to me it’s not really a sporty sport - if you know what I mean. I think team sports should take precedence as you have to interact with humans to achieve an outcome, against other humans who are trying to do the same thing. That’s where the sporting etymology comes from for mine. Then we creep into what is and is not “sport”. Darts? Snooker? Wrestling? Fishing? Weightlifting? MMA? Horse Racing?

I agree that Basketball has only gained worldwide prominence over the last 3-4 decades. I wouldn’t put forward Magic, Kareem, Chamberlain, Russell or Robertson for that very reason despite them being in that upper echelon of Basketball with MJ. But that’s also why I pick Jordan. He created a literal worldwide phenomenon and launched the sport into the mainstream in places never thought possible – such was his athleticism, competitiveness, dominance and brilliance.

He transcended the sport, in other words. The only other person I can think of that has done anything similar during my time is Conor McGregor.

If it wasn’t for Bird & Johnson, there might not have been an MJ as such. Those two resurrected and transcended a league that was on its knees & would’ve probably died if it had to wait for Jordan.
In a way, Jordan (who no doubt is the greatest basketballer of all time) was a byproduct of Larry & Magic.
They provided the backboard, perhaps, as for Jordan to be able to skyrocket he had to beat/go past people that were damn good too. Just like the above point about Wilt.
Last edited by morell on Wed Jan 31, 2018 1:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Who is the "Greatest Ever Sportsman"?

Postby Wedgie » Wed Jan 31, 2018 1:55 pm

morell wrote:
Wedgie wrote:I rate Chamberlain higher than Jordan, they had to change rules because Wilt was so amazing.
Over 100 points in a game, 55 rebounds in a game, over 20,000 roots.......

He was competing against nerdy 6ft white dudes in an era with no three point line and basketball was a back blocks novelty.

He's a legend, but not in Jordan's league.

He was competing against players like Bill Russell who were neither white, nerdy or 6 foot.
We will have to agree to disagree :)
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Re: Who is the "Greatest Ever Sportsman"?

Postby morell » Wed Jan 31, 2018 1:58 pm

Yeah and Russell was the only one to mitigate him

Jordan went against people as physically gifted as him every single night.
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Re: Who is the "Greatest Ever Sportsman"?

Postby Wedgie » Wed Jan 31, 2018 2:07 pm

Sorry mate, it's just an opinion and one I would never change. I grew up studying basketball and am not as influenced by the media as others may be.
My best mate agrees with you if that helps :)

I could never decide on a GOAT in regard to all sports people, there hasn't been a standout IMHO. At the end of the day people will pick their favourites not necessarily the best.
I'd find it a lot easier to put a top ten or twenty together though including people like Chamberlain, Pele, Bradman, Phelps, Woods, Federer, Bolt, Dietrich, etc.
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Re: Who is the "Greatest Ever Sportsman"?

Postby bennymacca » Wed Jan 31, 2018 2:08 pm

Why do you think it has to be someone from a team sport? Quite often those guys are a byproduct of their team too. If Jordan was in a shit team all his life there is no way he counts as the greatest.

Some of the individual sports are more “pure” - there is no subjectivity about usain bolt or Michael Phelps or Federer being the best in their respective sports because they have shown for years that they are better than their competition.

Cricket is more easily measured because even though it’s a team game almost all interactions are 1v1
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Re: Who is the "Greatest Ever Sportsman"?

Postby FlyingHigh » Wed Jan 31, 2018 2:16 pm

morell wrote:Fair points, as always Jo.

I am resistant to pick athletics, to me it’s not really a sporty sport - if you know what I mean. I think team sports should take precedence as you have to interact with humans to achieve an outcome, against other humans who are trying to do the same thing. That’s where the sporting etymology comes from for mine. Then we creep into what is and is not “sport”. Darts? Snooker? Wrestling? Fishing? Weightlifting? MMA? Horse Racing?

I agree that Basketball has only gained worldwide prominence over the last 3-4 decades. I wouldn’t put forward Magic, Kareem, Chamberlain, Russell or Robertson for that very reason despite them being in that upper echelon of Basketball with MJ. But that’s also why I pick Jordan. He created a literal worldwide phenomenon and launched the sport into the mainstream in places never thought possible – such was his athleticism, competitiveness, dominance and brilliance.

He transcended the sport, in other words. The only other person I can think of that has done anything similar during my time is Conor McGregor.


I used to feel like this, until I started to try to run a few marathons, and to see athletes run them in about 2 hour, or 3 minute clicks, and other athletes running 10000 in sub-30's blows you away as to how good they are.
Also, how much of your success depends on your teammates or your greatness when you are trying to name the best individuals.
How about relays? Teamwork is crucial even though the majority of the action comes down to performing indiviudally, much like batting in cricket.
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Re: Who is the "Greatest Ever Sportsman"?

Postby Wedgie » Wed Jan 31, 2018 2:22 pm

Do "E Sports" count?
My son gets my vote.
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