Things that give you the sh1ts

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Re: Things that give you the sh1ts

Postby Dutchy » Fri Nov 01, 2019 9:24 am

Booney wrote:
Dutchy wrote:Every professional job requires some unpaid after hours work, Teaching seems one of the few vocations that are very vocal about having to do this.

FWIW Teachers do work hard and I respect them and the job they do, my sister is a teacher and my son wants to be one.

I don't think their union represents their profession very well publicly.


If teachers got $120k a year I'd tell them to shoosh, the fact they don't AND they have to put up with 30 or more snot gobblers every day I reckon they deserve some breaks.

As for the 12 weeks of holidays a year, I can assure you they spend most of that wrapping up one term and preparing for the next.

All that aside, their union is extremely poor at speaking on their behalf, absolutely agreed.


As I said I know they do a power of work, not arguing that, but the whinging we hear in the media is way over the top.

As for the $120k, they are not that far off that figure currently.
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Re: Things that give you the sh1ts

Postby Booney » Fri Nov 01, 2019 9:24 am

amber_fluid wrote:
Lightning McQueen wrote:
amber_fluid wrote:Bloody petrol prices today!

$1.26 near my work, $1.57 is the best around your neck of the woods.


It was a $1.71 at most near me yesterday.
First time ever I didn’t fill up to the top.
I don’t normally care too much about petrol prices but that was ridiculous.


Same, I can't put anything under 95 octane in mine, that was $1.92 yeaterday, 98 octane was $1.99 :shock:

Mind you, standard unleaded in the UK is around $2.45/litre at the moment.
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Re: Things that give you the sh1ts

Postby Booney » Fri Nov 01, 2019 9:25 am

Dutchy wrote:
Booney wrote:
Dutchy wrote:Every professional job requires some unpaid after hours work, Teaching seems one of the few vocations that are very vocal about having to do this.

FWIW Teachers do work hard and I respect them and the job they do, my sister is a teacher and my son wants to be one.

I don't think their union represents their profession very well publicly.


If teachers got $120k a year I'd tell them to shoosh, the fact they don't AND they have to put up with 30 or more snot gobblers every day I reckon they deserve some breaks.

As for the 12 weeks of holidays a year, I can assure you they spend most of that wrapping up one term and preparing for the next.

All that aside, their union is extremely poor at speaking on their behalf, absolutely agreed.


As I said I know they do a power of work, not arguing that, but the whinging we hear in the media is way over the top.

As for the $120k, they are not that far off that figure currently.


Again, that's poor representation.
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Re: Things that give you the sh1ts

Postby amber_fluid » Fri Nov 01, 2019 9:30 am

I know 3 teachers, 2 here and 1 in Melbourne.
None are even close to $120k.

One of them has been a teacher for 20 years.
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Re: Things that give you the sh1ts

Postby Booney » Fri Nov 01, 2019 9:31 am

amber_fluid wrote:I know 3 teachers, 2 here and 1 in Melbourne.
None are even close to $120k.

One of them has been a teacher for 20 years.


Yeah, I'm not sure where that figure comes from.
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Re: Things that give you the sh1ts

Postby Dutchy » Fri Nov 01, 2019 9:32 am

Put a teacher in a rural area and add up the allowances etc
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Re: Things that give you the sh1ts

Postby heater31 » Fri Nov 01, 2019 9:33 am

amber_fluid wrote:I know 3 teachers, 2 here and 1 in Melbourne.
None are even close to $120k.

One of them has been a teacher for 20 years.
Leadership teachers (Principals and Deputy) aren't far off that. Regular teachers in the metro area would be $80-90k. Country teachers might be on bonus payments and staff in disadvantaged schools.
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Re: Things that give you the sh1ts

Postby amber_fluid » Fri Nov 01, 2019 9:35 am

heater31 wrote:
amber_fluid wrote:I know 3 teachers, 2 here and 1 in Melbourne.
None are even close to $120k.

One of them has been a teacher for 20 years.
Leadership teachers (Principals and Deputy) aren't far off that. Regular teachers in the metro area would be $80-90k. Country teachers might be on bonus payments and staff in disadvantaged schools.


$80k is close to the mark for a teacher in Adelaide.
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Re: Things that give you the sh1ts

Postby Booney » Fri Nov 01, 2019 9:35 am

heater31 wrote:
amber_fluid wrote:I know 3 teachers, 2 here and 1 in Melbourne.
None are even close to $120k.

One of them has been a teacher for 20 years.
Leadership teachers (Principals and Deputy) aren't far off that. Regular teachers in the metro area would be $80-90k. Country teachers might be on bonus payments and staff in disadvantaged schools.


Precisely.
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Re: Things that give you the sh1ts

Postby The Dark Knight » Fri Nov 01, 2019 9:39 am

Booney wrote:
amber_fluid wrote:
Lightning McQueen wrote:
amber_fluid wrote:Bloody petrol prices today!

$1.26 near my work, $1.57 is the best around your neck of the woods.


It was a $1.71 at most near me yesterday.
First time ever I didn’t fill up to the top.
I don’t normally care too much about petrol prices but that was ridiculous.


Same, I can't put anything under 95 octane in mine, that was $1.92 yeaterday, 98 octane was $1.99 :shock:

Mind you, standard unleaded in the UK is around $2.45/litre at the moment.

Yeah I don't think we can complain too much about petrol prices just yet, the Europeans are paying at least 1.70 Euro per litre, it was 2 Euro in Greece.

Still was surprising to come home and see petrol at $1.70 on Victoria road, never seen that before so it felt bizarre.
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Re: Things that give you the sh1ts

Postby Bum Crack » Fri Nov 01, 2019 9:50 am

Booney wrote:
heater31 wrote:
amber_fluid wrote:I know 3 teachers, 2 here and 1 in Melbourne.
None are even close to $120k.

One of them has been a teacher for 20 years.
Leadership teachers (Principals and Deputy) aren't far off that. Regular teachers in the metro area would be $80-90k. Country teachers might be on bonus payments and staff in disadvantaged schools.


Precisely.

Not bad money for 9 months work.
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Re: Things that give you the sh1ts

Postby Booney » Fri Nov 01, 2019 9:53 am

Bum Crack wrote:
Booney wrote:
heater31 wrote:
amber_fluid wrote:I know 3 teachers, 2 here and 1 in Melbourne.
None are even close to $120k.

One of them has been a teacher for 20 years.
Leadership teachers (Principals and Deputy) aren't far off that. Regular teachers in the metro area would be $80-90k. Country teachers might be on bonus payments and staff in disadvantaged schools.


Precisely.

Not bad money for 9 months work.


:lol:
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Re: Things that give you the sh1ts

Postby westcoastpanther » Fri Nov 01, 2019 10:42 am

Teachers are notoriously tight as well, I'd go as far as to say they are a strange breed. Used to do their tax returns and they come in with a shoe box full of receipts for $3 - $5 for lollies and stuff they'd bought. Who could be stuffed
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Re: Things that give you the sh1ts

Postby Jim05 » Fri Nov 01, 2019 10:57 am

Booney wrote:
amber_fluid wrote:
Lightning McQueen wrote:
amber_fluid wrote:Bloody petrol prices today!

$1.26 near my work, $1.57 is the best around your neck of the woods.


It was a $1.71 at most near me yesterday.
First time ever I didn’t fill up to the top.
I don’t normally care too much about petrol prices but that was ridiculous.


Same, I can't put anything under 95 octane in mine, that was $1.92 yeaterday, 98 octane was $1.99 :shock:

Mind you, standard unleaded in the UK is around $2.45/litre at the moment.

A few weeks ago when I was in NZ it was $2.08 in Christchurch but in Queenstown and surrounding towns it was $2.83
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Re: Things that give you the sh1ts

Postby Pag » Fri Nov 01, 2019 3:47 pm

Booney wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
Booney wrote:
Dutchy wrote:Every professional job requires some unpaid after hours work, Teaching seems one of the few vocations that are very vocal about having to do this.

FWIW Teachers do work hard and I respect them and the job they do, my sister is a teacher and my son wants to be one.

I don't think their union represents their profession very well publicly.


If teachers got $120k a year I'd tell them to shoosh, the fact they don't AND they have to put up with 30 or more snot gobblers every day I reckon they deserve some breaks.

As for the 12 weeks of holidays a year, I can assure you they spend most of that wrapping up one term and preparing for the next.

All that aside, their union is extremely poor at speaking on their behalf, absolutely agreed.


As I said I know they do a power of work, not arguing that, but the whinging we hear in the media is way over the top.

As for the $120k, they are not that far off that figure currently.


Again, that's poor representation.

*deep breath*

I'm happy to clarify a few things (off the top of my head), this may vary slightly from school to school and public to private systems. For context, I work in a severely disadvantaged school in the northern suburbs (to answer a previous query, country teachers can receive financial allowances based on their distance away from the Adelaide CBD, all metro teachers are on the same pay rates, regardless of whether you’re in Davoren Park or Burnside. Principals pay is calculated on complexity x number of students).

The main aspect (or at least should be) of a teacher's job is to plan, implement and assess learning for six lessons per day. As well as ensuring it is engaging for students, hands-on for kids with different learning styles, and incorporates use of ICT in some way, the learning needs to fits with the year level (or levels) we are teaching of the Australian Curriculum (ACARA), ensuring we are incorporating an ATSI perspective, Asian connections and cross-curricular priorities according to ACARA. We also then need to individualise/modify/change the learning outcomes, tasks and assessments for students with verified disabilities (of which I have seven in my current class), with English as a Second Language (of which I have eight in my class), for students who are not working at the year level for that particular (the majority of the rest, I have only four students working at year level for English and Maths), as well as for students working above year level who need to be stretched. Classroom management is also key so students (and families) clearly know routines, expectations and structures. Bearing in mind that not all the 30 kids we get are engaged and eager to learn, and the rates of trauma that students are bringing with them to the classroom are increasing each year (drug/alcohol abuse at home, domestic violence, child addictions etc all contributing factors).

Other responsibilities include:
- Analysing and interpret student achievement data to inform future planning and pedagogies
- Writing, monitoring and updating Negotiated Education Plans for students with verified disabilities (seven I mentioned earlier), and the same for Individual Learning Plans for all ATSI students (of which I have three students) and the same for students under the Guardianship of the Minister (of which I have three also).
- Applying for extra funding for other students who may need support with Literacy, Numeracy or their well-being.
- Developing behaviour plans for students presenting with extreme and challenging behaviours.
- Following up continuous non-attendance including home visits, meeting with attendance officers etc.
- Organising, planning and implementing two excursions per year, ensuring the outcomes match ACARA as mentioned in the top paragraph.

- Supervising students on yard duty 1x 15-20 minute session per day.
- Attending one 1.5 hr staff meeting per week.
- Holding Parent/Teacher interviews for all students in Terms 1 & 3, and writing formal reports for all students in Terms 2 and 4.
- Dealing with conflicts and bullying/harassment between students (eating in to break times for teachers or learning time for students).
- Mandatory reporting of instances of child neglect/abuse to the Department for Child Protection.
- Completing 37.5 hours of outside-hours training & development on an annual basis.

Added aspects (specific to my role as a Year 6/7 Teacher, on top of the above):
- Organise, plan and implement an annual Year 6/7 three-day camp.
- Organise, plan and run an annual Year 7 Graduation celebration/dinner/disco.
- Organise, collate and have printed a Seniors Yearbook on an annual basis
- Organise and manage Year 7 ‘Seniors’ uniform on an annual basis
- Organise, plan and implement an annual Year 7 Aquatics excursion (in lieu of swimming lessons)
- Organise and manage the transition process for Year 7s to local high schools

I also have been involved with SAPSASA School Sport in the Playford region across the last four years, organising coaching the district footy team (with after school trainings etc). Completely a choice thing from my end, but a teacher from the district has to do it or it doesn't happen for kids.

The bolded aspects are what teachers want improved with the next CBA. It is becoming increasingly difficult (and time-consuming) to deal with these factors, so much paperwork to deal with, that I have actually seen teachers decide not to apply for funding to help a student because of the amount of hoops they are expected to jump through (with no guarantee of the support/funding being provided).

The first paragraph I mentioned (ie pure teaching and learning) is a 40-hour per week job by itself, absolute minimum. Add on all the other dot points and the hours per week add up quickly. People talk about the 12 weeks of holidays. One week across the year is taken up with training and development mentioned (down to 11 weeks), we actually go back a week before kids in January to set-up new classrooms (down to 10 weeks), a class of 30 reports takes me approx. 40 hours (down to 9 weeks), and we do it twice a year (down to eight weeks). I would spend 3-4 days in each lot of holidays during the year finalising grades from the term prior (as kids hand up assignments in the last week, even when due 5-6 weeks beforehand), and organising the next terms curriculum (3-4 days x 3 = -2 weeks, down to six). The 12 weeks, as good as it looks on paper, is actually a myth for most teachers. There are poor and lazy teachers out there, as there are in every profession/trade, but for the majority, six is a more realistic number.

This is not a sob story by any means, just trying to state some facts from a teacher perspective. Myself and the majority of teachers at our site aren’t overly fussed about the pay increase, but the bolded points above are becoming harder and harder to manage due to red tape increasing, as well as the number of students bringing complexity into the classroom that the government aren’t willing to support appropriately. I agree in that sometimes I don’t think our union gets our message across well-enough. But I also feel the general public go a bit harder on teachers due to the ’12 weeks’ myth, and because everyone went to school so has an opinion. Just because I drive across a bridge each day, doesn’t mean I’d know the ins and outs of an engineer’s work.
Last edited by Pag on Mon Nov 04, 2019 10:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Things that give you the sh1ts

Postby Booney » Fri Nov 01, 2019 3:56 pm

Excellent Pag, excellent.

My wife runs an OHSC and Vac Care program in a school that would be classed, in basic terms, of being in a lower socioeconomic part of Adelaide's inner North West. The changes, behavioral changes, she's seen across the board with students and parents has been stark in the 12 years she's been in the role. The load put on her can be immense and I see it first hand the impact that can have on her.

Kudos to you for what you do and the post above. I hope people read it in detail and they consider their position on the matter somewhat.
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Re: Things that give you the sh1ts

Postby Bum Crack » Fri Nov 01, 2019 4:39 pm

Booney wrote:Excellent Pag, excellent.

My wife runs an OHSC and Vac Care program in a school that would be classed, in basic terms, of being in a lower socioeconomic part of Adelaide's inner North West. The changes, behavioral changes, she's seen across the board with students and parents has been stark in the 12 years she's been in the role. The load put on her can be immense and I see it first hand the impact that can have on her.

Kudos to you for what you do and the post above. I hope people read it in detail and they consider their position on the matter somewhat.

Na.
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Re: Things that give you the sh1ts

Postby Bum Crack » Fri Nov 01, 2019 4:50 pm

Booney wrote:Excellent Pag, excellent.

My wife runs an OHSC and Vac Care program in a school that would be classed, in basic terms, of being in a lower socioeconomic part of Adelaide's inner North West. The changes, behavioral changes, she's seen across the board with students and parents has been stark in the 12 years she's been in the role. The load put on her can be immense and I see it first hand the impact that can have on her.

Kudos to you for what you do and the post above. I hope people read it in detail and they consider their position on the matter somewhat.

Get off the grass. Lost me when holidays were being deducted because of having to do some reports and overtime lol. That's what I'm getting at. Welcome to the real world. That's what most people have to do. It's a reality of working. The thing is, most other people don't whinge about it.
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Re: Things that give you the sh1ts

Postby bennymacca » Fri Nov 01, 2019 5:08 pm

Teachers and farmers are the only two types of workers that continually try and tell everyone else how hard their job is, like if they say it enough times it must come true

to be fair im not saying either of them aren't tough, but both groups get incredibly indignant if you dare to say anything negative about them, no matter if its in jest or not.

of course teachers do out of hours work, but its just plain BS to claim that you don't have more holidays than others

its like Public service workers. the jokes are only there because there is an element of truth to them
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Re: Things that give you the sh1ts

Postby SANFLFAN » Fri Nov 01, 2019 5:28 pm

Teachers are defensive because so many people are getting stuck into them all the time. Public servants and teachers take more flak then all other occupations combine.
My daughter is a new teacher in a small country school and she does all that Pag said above and a whole lot more community involvement stuff etc. She works 7 to 5 every day, has a meeting or function after hours at least twice a week and spends most of her breaks on marking and preparation. She has never visited me on a weekend without bringing work with her.
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