The never ending No AFL in the SANFL whinge thread

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Re: The 2014 season no AFL in the SANFL whinge thread

Postby Dogwatcher » Mon May 19, 2014 11:02 am

I think those are things that we will have to deal with. I don't think it will be easy, by any measure.
I believe the national reserves comp/south-eastern reserves conference (SA and Vic sides) will feature on Pay TV. It will fill the void that Foxtel has tried to use the Cup competition to fill.
The 'reserves comp' will see the AFL on a par with the NRL.
I don't see it being a massive drawcard (who wants to watch reserves?) but...it does two things:
1) Provides content for Fox
2) Provides development opportunities at a more elite level than is currently occurring.

I think the fact this forum continues to be so popular and attracts so many people to discuss SANFL, means there will still be strong community support and a little bit of leverage to keep Channel 7 on board through sponsorship.
If it doesn't, so be it.

A number of our SANFL clubs are struggling financially anyway. $40k a year is very little extra in the coffers - that financial support isn't going to solve the problems that some clubs have. However, they will keep going. Financial problems aren't something new - clubs have faced them throughout their existence.

The SANFL has Football Park to work with, ensuring there will be funds to be directed to its members - the eight remaining clubs - into the future.

It will be a struggle. But for many SANFL fans it will be worth it. Ultimately, for the AFL clubs, I believe it will be worth it as well.

This AFL reserves team situation in the SANFL wasn't prompted about financial issues, it was prompted by the needs and desires of the AFL clubs.

This is also not just a challenge being faced by the SANFL but also the VFL.
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Re: The 2014 season no AFL in the SANFL whinge thread

Postby Dogwatcher » Mon May 19, 2014 11:04 am

There needs to be AFL money in the SANFL and all other grades for development of players for drafting purposes.
Any money the AFL sends downwards is, ultimately, to its own benefit.
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Re: The 2014 season no AFL in the SANFL whinge thread

Postby TimmiesChin » Mon May 19, 2014 11:10 am

Dogwatcher wrote:There needs to be AFL money in the SANFL and all other grades for development of players for drafting purposes.
Any money the AFL sends downwards is, ultimately, to its own benefit.


I agree with that, but at the moment from my understanding the two Adelaide clubs are at a competitive disadvantage because the majority of SANFL funding does not come directly from the AFL, but instead from them.

I think all SANFL funding should come directly from the AFL, and the clubs should be freed of this impost.... especially if you want to ramp up their costs by making them play elsewhere. It would also force the AFL to be more equitable with state leagues. Put it this way - I certainly dont think you will see a line item titles "VFL distribution" on a Collingwood financial statement.
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Re: The 2014 season no AFL in the SANFL whinge thread

Postby stan » Mon May 19, 2014 11:13 am

I think the issue with the strength of Port can be sorted out with a tweak of the rules. Say there top up players are all u/23 as it has been said before.
I believe this would be bring them back to field.

I also agree that we all wouldn't be as pissed if they were travelling as well as the crows. This I believe is the key. Bring them back to the field a bit and go from there.

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Re: The 2014 season no AFL in the SANFL whinge thread

Postby JK » Mon May 19, 2014 11:13 am

The SANFL should also be able to live off the value of land at West Lakes. Of course that's nice in theory, but most SANFL clubs have shown a penchant for living beyond their means to be competitive over the years, at some stage or another.
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Re: The 2014 season no AFL in the SANFL whinge thread

Postby bennymacca » Mon May 19, 2014 11:16 am

Unless reserves games are played at a completely different time to the afl games it won't be filling a void ala the foxtel cup. At present fox had uninterrupted footy all Saturday for instance. Where does a reserves game fit in?

And you are right, the interest would be pretty low. Probably the main driver for not doing it as it couldn't justify the cost.

Having said all that, I saw somewhere that running a reserves team is likely to cost an extra 300k per team.

That's 5.4 million a year across the whole comp. seems trifling given each team spends 20+ a year to run their main team.

Maybe that figure was not quite right, I'll try to find the reference
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Re: The 2014 season no AFL in the SANFL whinge thread

Postby Dutchy » Mon May 19, 2014 11:17 am

bennymacca wrote:
The thing is though, if port were also down the bottom there would be no whinging in this thread whatsoever. It would be "sucked in, this what you wanted." People worried about two (or three) sets of rules wouldn't say a word

Smells of a little sour grapes at this point in time. But also shows that it doesn't take much to turn a really bad side into a really good one. Bottom end depth vitally important.


Crap, people are just as pissed off about the Crows as they are about the Power, ladder positions are irrelevant in the argument IMO, both teams/clubs are wrecking the league competition just by being part of the fixture.

I said before the start of this that their competitiveness would all come down to the size of their AFL injury list, and thats the way it is playing out.
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Re: The 2014 season no AFL in the SANFL whinge thread

Postby stan » Mon May 19, 2014 11:18 am

TimmiesChin wrote:
dedja wrote:TC, the 2nd and 3rd points are completely irrelevant and have no relationship with AFL reserves teams in the SANFL.

Nice try though.


Well they do really.

Without them, the only relationship between the SANFL and AFL sides is the money the SANFL pulls from them out of Adelaide Oval. ... if you don't want them in, then I reckon all ties should be severed and the SANFL should work directly with the AFL, as I believe the VFL, and WAFL do.


Because at the moment it seems that without the money they are generating for footy in this state (and have been for a long time) the SANFL would not be a viable comp. financially.

I'd certainly be happy with a "No AFL in SANFL" ticket if it also involved a "No AFL money in SANFL"


Well there's the real point again. Its money. I think that money will bind the SANFL and the AFL sides together.

Perhaps if we had the previous model where AFL listed players played for Sanfl clubs and with the SANFL pulling all links to the SMA and thats also goes in regards to income and leave that split for SACA and the AFL clubs then having a "fee" from the AFL clubs for there players to play for the SANFL clubs. Gets the split right id you want them gone as well as provinding the development funds.
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Re: The 2014 season no AFL in the SANFL whinge thread

Postby Dogwatcher » Mon May 19, 2014 11:23 am

If the NRL has the money to run an under 23 comp (or whatever it is), which receives national coverage on Fox, then I'm pretty certain the AFL, which already bankrolls the NEAFL competition (which has teams in two states/one territory), can afford to operate a reserves/under 23/south-eastern conference.
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Re: The 2014 season no AFL in the SANFL whinge thread

Postby Dutchy » Mon May 19, 2014 11:27 am

Said it may times, NRL, Cricket and Soccer all can fund national reserves comps, funding cannot be the issue for the AFL if they are serious about development.

Makes you wonder if the SANFL farce this year will accelerate discussions on this point?
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Re: The 2014 season no AFL in the SANFL whinge thread

Postby TimmiesChin » Mon May 19, 2014 11:58 am

Dogwatcher wrote:If the NRL has the money to run an under 23 comp (or whatever it is), which receives national coverage on Fox, then I'm pretty certain the AFL, which already bankrolls the NEAFL competition (which has teams in two states/one territory), can afford to operate a reserves/under 23/south-eastern conference.


I'm not sure of the kick on effects of a full blown reserves comp though.
Would AFL lists then be increased to cover both sides, alternatively where would top up players come from.... ie would Adelaide contract an additional dozen top up players for their reserves side (hence directly competing with the SANFL for signatures) or would the AFL simply increase list size.
(An extra dozen top ups per AFL club would pull 216 additional players out of state leagues... and they would still need somewhere to play when not required for AFL reserves.)
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Re: The 2014 season no AFL in the SANFL whinge thread

Postby StrayDog » Mon May 19, 2014 12:06 pm

bennymacca wrote:
The thing is though, if port were also down the bottom there would be no whinging in this thread whatsoever. It would be "sucked in, this what you wanted." People worried about two (or three) sets of rules wouldn't say a word

Smells of a little sour grapes at this point in time. But also shows that it doesn't take much to turn a really bad side into a really good one. Bottom end depth vitally important.

The ultimate prize of the SANFL league competition, the Thomas Seymour Hill trophy, is now NOT the ultimate focus of 20% of the competing clubs. The suggestion that suddenly all would be forgiven about this bastardisation simply because the sides aren't performing (as one of them isn't) is bizarre, and smacks of having NO concept of why this has been fought LONG before it happened. It's all on here benny. Do some research.

Personally I couldn't give a ratz jatz how the strong or weak the AFL reserves teams are. They shouldn't be in the SANFL league competition. End of story.

I guarantee the pungent odour you're smelling isn't sour grapes, but you will find it in most gardening shops - and, perhaps, a little closer to home.

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Re: The 2014 season no AFL in the SANFL whinge thread

Postby Big Phil » Mon May 19, 2014 12:15 pm

Great article from Warren Partland in today's paper...

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/sport/afl ... 6922482960

Warren Partland wrote:Quit the charade, Magpies are dead...

THE Port Adelaide Magpies are in name only and are not the true Magpies.

Port Adelaide and the SANFL can voice their disapproval as much as they want but the charade is already over after just eight rounds.

They ceased to be the Magpies when they were given a licence to include Eagles, Roosters, Bulldogs and Tigers in the side.

Paul Stewart is a Woodville-West Torrens product, last year Cameron Hitchcock was in the Glenelg jumper and Sam Colquhoun learned his football at Central District. State league clubs are now playing against players they developed who signed with the Power for the AFL.

The Power, just like the Crows, wanted teams in the state league so they could keep their players together. Any club with a second side calls it their reserves under the same label.

The Crows didn’t come up with the Galahs or Pigeons for their second side. They stuck with the Crows and while they prefer the team be tagged its state league side, it is still acknowledged as their reserves.

So why is the Power reserves called the Magpies, especially when products of other state league programs are involved? And don’t they want to be known as the one club?

The difference between the Crows and Power reserves is the more favourable conditions offered to Port Adelaide, which was allowed to retain key personnel from last year’s Magpies outfit.

Next year, Port Adelaide will lose its zones and under age teams. However, the damage is already being done on the evidence of the past six weeks.

The Power reserves have won their past six games by a combined 423 points at an average of more than 70. Their past two wins were by 50 and 60 points against Sturt and South Adelaide respectively. Those two teams sat second on the ladder underneath the Power reserves going into those battles.

The Power reserves have also beaten the Eagles by 58 points. It is the Eagles’ only loss.

When the Crows were given the green light to field a team in the state league and Port Adelaide was allowed to keep its reserves at Alberton and not spread throughout the competition, there were plenty of nerves of an AFL team domination.

Already clubs are relying on Power injuries to bring it back to the pack.

No doubt if the Power reserves win the grand final the club will claim it as an extension of the Magpies’ proud history. Yeah, right.
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Re: The 2014 season no AFL in the SANFL whinge thread

Postby Jim05 » Mon May 19, 2014 12:24 pm

TimmiesChin wrote:
Dogwatcher wrote:There needs to be AFL money in the SANFL and all other grades for development of players for drafting purposes.
Any money the AFL sends downwards is, ultimately, to its own benefit.


I agree with that, but at the moment from my understanding the two Adelaide clubs are at a competitive disadvantage because the majority of SANFL funding does not come directly from the AFL, but instead from them.

I think all SANFL funding should come directly from the AFL, and the clubs should be freed of this impost.... especially if you want to ramp up their costs by making them play elsewhere. It would also force the AFL to be more equitable with state leagues. Put it this way - I certainly dont think you will see a line item titles "VFL distribution" on a Collingwood financial statement.

The thing you are forgetting Timmy is that the SANFL are part owners of AO and without them the move to AO would never of been made possible. The SANFL is entitled to claim rent off the AFL sides as long as they are tennants. The two AFL sides dont even get a say on the SMA. Id be more than happy for the SANFL to just collect rent of them for eternity, at a decent rate of course
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Re: The 2014 season no AFL in the SANFL whinge thread

Postby TimmiesChin » Mon May 19, 2014 12:36 pm

Jim05 wrote:The thing you are forgetting Timmy is that the SANFL are part owners of AO and without them the move to AO would never of been made possible. The SANFL is entitled to claim rent off the AFL sides as long as they are tennants. The two AFL sides dont even get a say on the SMA. Id be more than happy for the SANFL to just collect rent of them for eternity, at a decent rate of course


See that bolded comment scares me. We are trusting the likes of Whicker and co...... at least we know the pie warmers will be cranked up at Adelaide Oval.

I don't mind the clubs paying 'rent', however rent should be related to cost of opening venue plus profit margin. So what is a decent rate... if it relates to the cost of opening and operating the venue then all well and good, if it includes all sorts of other stuff, then I have an issue.
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The 2014 season no AFL in the SANFL whinge thread

Postby Jim05 » Mon May 19, 2014 12:42 pm

TimmiesChin wrote:
Jim05 wrote:The thing you are forgetting Timmy is that the SANFL are part owners of AO and without them the move to AO would never of been made possible. The SANFL is entitled to claim rent off the AFL sides as long as they are tennants. The two AFL sides dont even get a say on the SMA. Id be more than happy for the SANFL to just collect rent of them for eternity, at a decent rate of course


See that bolded comment scares me. We are trusting the likes of Whicker and co...... at least we know the pie warmers will be cranked up at Adelaide Oval.

I don't mind the clubs paying 'rent', however rent should be related to cost of opening venue plus profit margin. So what is a decent rate... if it relates to the cost of opening and operating the venue then all well and good, if it includes all sorts of other stuff, then I have an issue.

Agreed on not being too gready, can get a little bit of cream on the top but no need to go over the top. There is enough cash to be made by both parties
If the Reserves sides continue to play in the SANFL perhaps the rent should be jacked up to cover the cost of increasing our salary cap though
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Re: The 2014 season no AFL in the SANFL whinge thread

Postby smac » Mon May 19, 2014 12:46 pm

Why should the 2 AFL clubs have a say on SMA? I wouldn't appoint a tenant in my rental property as my agent to manage the property.
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Re: The 2014 season no AFL in the SANFL whinge thread

Postby Jim05 » Mon May 19, 2014 12:51 pm

smac wrote:Why should the 2 AFL clubs have a say on SMA? I wouldn't appoint a tenant in my rental property as my agent to manage the property.

I think this is what most people are missing.
The AFL sides are only tennants, do they really think the SANFL would agree to move from AAMI unless they were given a say in what happens. The SANFL along with the SACA will always be the ones wielding the power
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Re: The 2014 season no AFL in the SANFL whinge thread

Postby TimmiesChin » Mon May 19, 2014 12:51 pm

smac wrote:Why should the 2 AFL clubs have a say on SMA? I wouldn't appoint a tenant in my rental property as my agent to manage the property.


Because like it or lump it, the two AFL sides are the biggest party involved in Adelaide Oval and should at least have a voice.

Wky was it again that the SANFL originally left Adelaide Oval and set up footy park. Wasn't it because they were the biggest source of revenue of Adelaide Oval but where getting no input ? (or something like that).
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Re: The 2014 season no AFL in the SANFL whinge thread

Postby TimmiesChin » Mon May 19, 2014 12:54 pm

Jim05 wrote:Agreed on not being too gready, can get a little bit of cream on the top but no need to go over the top. There is enough cash to be made by both parties
If the Reserves sides continue to play in the SANFL perhaps the rent should be jacked up to cover the cost of increasing our salary cap though


correct on all counts.
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