VERSION 2: 7 Pure A-Grade Divisions

[Phantom Gossiper]

I just don't see what all the debate is about????
It is the best result for all (imo) for it to be A v A and C v C. The question is, whether that result is worth having byes?

Don't think anyone doesn't think AvA and CvC etc isnt the best result.

The debate is the motives behind the push. These C/D grade clubs elected to field 4 sides and nominate to enter divisions that had A grade sides in them - not vice/versa, they've had their success and their struggles as has been pointed out previously, so why should the A grade clubs need to be more accomodating and have to be reshuffled?

[Jetters]

# Having byes like this also offers opportunities to invite new fully established clubs to the SAAFL and allow them to fill the Div 3 bye. For example Brighton may consider the Div 3 invitation, where theres no way in the world it would join a vacancy in Div 7. MArion could join Div 4, or Morphettville or Blackwood etc. By 2016 these byes could be filled.

How would the grades be adjusted each season then if one div had 10 teams, one had 9, another had 10 and so one?

The exact same way.....

[Phantom Gossiper]

If the C/D grade clubs are so strong about having their own comp, then why not just increase the number of teams in the lower divisions to 12 and squeeze in the left over clubs.

If a club like Kilburn or Wingfield cant get 2 sides up, stick them in the C grade divisions and plug the hole with the next club in line.

[Jetters]

"Sorry Adelaide Lutheran, I know you were only a game away from playing Div 5 finals, but we are going to put you into Div 6 this season. Hope you dont mind either, but another club from a different comp has said they want to join, so we are going to put them in Div 5 and remove the bye. Oh and unfortunately due to the odd numbers in each division, we wont be able to promote anyone from 6 this season, and two will be relegated. Hope your club prospers and you can attract quality footballers knowing you are going to be in 6 for a couple of years... Oh but dont worry, you're still the **th ranked club in the comp, that's gotta make you proud!"

Didn't say that

Doesnt make sense

So your only issue is the issue of promotion for 1 year?

[Phantom Gossiper]

Didn't say that

Not you..

# Having byes like this also offers opportunities to invite new fully established clubs to the SAAFL and allow them to fill the Div 3 bye. For example Brighton may consider the Div 3 invitation, where theres no way in the world it would join a vacancy in Div 7. MArion could join Div 4, or Morphettville or Blackwood etc. By 2016 these byes could be filled.

[Phantom Gossiper]

What happens if Henley dominated Super C grade comp for the next 5 years - smashing sides every week - and other clubs numbers begin dropping off, and Henley then decide they want a challenge and want to try their hand against the lower A grade sides in Div 7?!

[Phantom Gossiper]

I'm done discussing this anyway - if it happens it happens, if it doesn't then it doesn't, either way i'm not going to lose sleep about it..

[Cohiba]

Criteria for competing in SAAFL is that a "Club"...must be able to field and A and B Grade side. From there create as many or as few Divisions as needed and structure the team numbers in each to whatever whether is be evens or odds (ie creating a bye if need be).

Forfeit a A grade game A your Club's season is done. Forfeit a B grade game and that grade's season is done.

Those teams that can field C and D grades should be sure they can fulfil that commitment...not just a maybe. They then can then compete in second tier comp separate to the A and B's.

Forfeit a C grade match and your C grade season is done. Forfeit more than one game in the D's and your D grade season is done.

Both tiered comps would then run with a promotion and relegation system as is currently in place.

In the case of any Senior team forfeiting that Club's re entry level should a the discretion of the League.

Teams struggling to put people on the park should really consider merging rather than be tossed around in the too hard basket.....

[marbles]

spot on cohiba

an A v A league with reserves

a C v C league with reserves

anyone else go jump

PG - Theres 64 agrade clubs? whats your solution to stack them into equal divisions without hurting too many egos?

[marbles]

clubs should be given a ranking

at the end of the season when say the two clubs make the granny, their ranking would then be ranked higher than the 3 clubs who finished bottom in the division above

for example smithfield & houghton make div 7 granny, they immediately become ranked above mawsons, mitchells and angle vale

so smithfield ranking = 58th
so houghton ranking = 59th
so mawsons = 60th
and mitchells = 61st
and angle vale = 62nd

now the following season when the league decides how many byes theyll need or divisions, the stacks will be based on rank youll play where your ranked

end of the day i dont think the league can ever change from 18 rounds so it will always be 9 or 10 teams per division

[marbles]

come febuary each year, the league publicly announces...

"this season we have 64 agrade affiliations, based on club ranking, lets now all work together to have equal divisions for this upcoming season"

the following season you could have 65 teams or 67, or even the lucky number of 60

but until that late febuary announcement occurs, no division or fixture is known. only your club rank can determine your place

and also a club like brahma might volunteer their rank and go down a div to rebuild, thereby saving a club whos stuck on the fine line of going down a div

[Phantom Gossiper]

PG - Theres 64 agrade clubs? whats your solution to stack them into equal divisions without hurting too many egos?

Based on being 64 clubs..

Division 2015.JPG (58.1 KiB) Viewed 748 times

*The top and bottom divisions have the least amount of team movement each season as Div 1 can't have promotion and Div 6 (or 7 at the moment) can't be relegated. These two grades would be impacted the least from a re-structure.

*Maintain the current 2 up & 2 down system for promotion/relegation

In the 12 team divisions:
*Each side is given a seeding from the previous season to help determine the draw.
* Draw is weighted to test the previous seasons better sides, and assist the lower rated sides - in this instance the promoted to div 1 sides would get the assistance, the relegated Div 6 sides would be tested.

[Phantom Gossiper]

I would go one step further and produce a draw based on seedings for all the other grades to be used each season in each of the 10 team grades.
You could stipulate whether the game is home or away - this would give clubs the ability to better plan for the upcoming season, as they would be able to work out the fixture without needing to know whose in their div. e.g

Round 1: (1st named side is home team)
1 v 10
2 v 9
3 v 8
4 v 7
5 v 6

Round 2:
9 v 1
8 v 2
7 v 3
6 v 4
10 v 5

[Phantom Gossiper]

Seeding's would be based on ladder position at the end of the previous season minor round.
Relegated sides would assume seeding's 1 & 2
Promoted sides would assume seeding's 9 & 10

[Phantom Gossiper]

I would also consider with your C/D grade super league divisions, having (if possible) 3 divisions with lesser amounts of teams e.g. 6 teams and top 4 finals, incorporating 3x byes during the season

or

Have the two divisions, but have 1 side extra in the C1 side of the comp, creating a bye for club D grade sides during the season to help alleviate some of the pressure of player numbers and fitness over a long season. The extra side in C1 could be the premier from the top flight stand alone C grade comp (Currently C1) and operate on a promotion/relegation process for that side.

[marbles]

Firstly - awesome work PG you have built a bridge & crossed it - officially accepted to leave the C-Graders behind - great work.

So have read your model, i am here to work with you, so here are some questions...

# Div 1 = 12 teams? how many rounds in the season?

# Because of cricket seasons i doubt the saafl (C9AFL) can go anymore than 18 rounds

# Also mate my apologies i forgot Flinders Uni = 65 teams + adelaide uni might be furious they not included = 66 teams

# this could happen every season the number of teams will be unknown. clubs fold, clubs join, clubs like wingfield gets a b-grade - the model has to change every year?? do u agree??

# i like your seedings theory - but thats more to favour the bottom side which is fine, but does that relate to stacking divisions equally. That to me is more like creating equality for the new comer. ie: ingle farm in div 5 - for me this seeding is a whole other topic all together related in house to the division only?? its a bit unrelated to this scope of all divisions, do u agree?

# i like your model very much cos it has little disturbance to clubs, but as above it has a few questions to be answered

# with the C-Grade comp structure who cares about them for now

[marbles]

I would also consider with your C/D grade super league divisions, having (if possible) 3 divisions with lesser amounts of teams e.g. 6 teams and top 4 finals, incorporating 3x byes during the season

or

Have the two divisions, but have 1 side extra in the C1 side of the comp, creating a bye for club D grade sides during the season to help alleviate some of the pressure of player numbers and fitness over a long season. The extra side in C1 could be the premier from the top flight stand alone C grade comp (Currently C1) and operate on a promotion/relegation process for that side.

thats actually a brilliant idea

Super C1 have 10 sides
Super C1R have 9 sides
>>> the 10th side in super C1 will be the premier of C1 (single stand alone side) and this encourages them to attract a d-grade? oh but wait what happens to them the following season when the next C1 premier earns a crack

[Phantom Gossiper]

thats actually a brilliant idea

Super C1 have 10 sides
Super C1R have 9 sides
>>> the 10th side in super C1 will be the premier of C1 (single stand alone side) and this encourages them to attract a d-grade? oh but wait what happens to them the following season when the next C1 premier earns a crack

Answer the easier question first.

The next season regardless of position/success, they are removed from the comp and replaced with the premier. Might sound harsh, but as it is at the moment, the sides in C1 don't move as is, so the opportunity to play in the D8 comp for a season gives both them (premier C1) and the sides who play in D8 the chance to play against opposition they otherwise wouldn't.

The sides in D8 & C1 would play mostly the same sides each year, so a season with a different side should be a welcomed change.

Could also encourage a club to work for a D grade in the season they drop back, understanding and realising what is required to field a 3rd and 4th side.

If the following season the side from C1 whose due to go down is able to field a 4th side, then enter them into the lowest C/D division and cover D8 with the C1 premier, and shuffle the C grade sides up a grade to fill the void.

[Yank Man]

I would also consider with your C/D grade super league divisions, having (if possible) 3 divisions with lesser amounts of teams e.g. 6 teams and top 4 finals, incorporating 3x byes during the season

or

Have the two divisions, but have 1 side extra in the C1 side of the comp, creating a bye for club D grade sides during the season to help alleviate some of the pressure of player numbers and fitness over a long season. The extra side in C1 could be the premier from the top flight stand alone C grade comp (Currently C1) and operate on a promotion/relegation process for that side.

thats actually a brilliant idea

Super C1 have 10 sides
Super C1R have 9 sides
>>> the 10th side in super C1 will be the premier of C1 (single stand alone side) and this encourages them to attract a d-grade? oh but wait what happens to them the following season when the next C1 premier earns a crack

Agree or disagree with marbles, like or don't like marbles and his determination for a super league, but at least it has caused discussion. The fact is the league could have issues in 2015 and I am sure they are working hard on a resolution. For me A grades play A grades and C grades play C grades. If an A grade club can't fill 2 teams then it's the wilderness for them and C something. Let's face it if Goody Sts fielded C's AND D's the mighty Henley would slip behind them. I've watched a C1 game this year and the standard was high Div 7. More to come I reckon.

[Phantom Gossiper]

Firstly - awesome work PG you have built a bridge & crossed it - officially accepted to leave the C-Graders behind - great work.

So have read your model, i am here to work with you, so here are some questions...

# Div 1 = 12 teams? how many rounds in the season? Remain an 18 round season. The seeding's would determine the draw. Each team would play each other once, then for the remaining 7 games base the draw on the seeding from previous season. For instance the 4 games that the top sides may not play a 2nd game against could be against the bottom seeded sides.

# Because of cricket seasons i doubt the saafl (C9AFL) can go anymore than 18 rounds

# Also mate my apologies i forgot Flinders Uni = 65 teams + adelaide uni might be furious they not included = 66 teamsIdentify where the side belongs based on the seeding from the season before and fill them in the grade they belong, shuffle sides accordingly. Wingfield only have 1 side, so if they cant field 2 then don't include them, and Adel Uni can play in the C/D divisions.

# this could happen every season the number of teams will be unknown. clubs fold, clubs join, clubs like wingfield gets a b-grade - the model has to change every year?? do u agree??Think it has been mentioned before that the comp has grown massively and almost to it's capacity. I would be reluctant to look at having new clubs join in the near future. Clubs folding is a little more difficult, but unfortunately it may mean a bye in the division that club was in. However most of the higher division clubs are very well structured and run and the clubs that would be in most danger of folding are new clubs or lower division battlers

# i like your seedings theory - but thats more to favour the bottom side which is fine, but does that relate to stacking divisions equally. That to me is more like creating equality for the new comer. ie: ingle farm in div 5 - for me this seeding is a whole other topic all together related in house to the division only?? its a bit unrelated to this scope of all divisions, do u agree?The seeding in the 10 team divisions is purely for ease of creating the following seasons fixture, it wouldn't affect equality because sides in 10 team divs would still play each other twice. It would help even out the comps in Div 1 and Div 6 though because it would give the new comer more chance to have success in Div 1 but also in Div 6 make the relegated club earn promotion again and assist the previous seasons wooden spooner get off the bottom. Given those two grades don't have much change each season, it could infact (Div 1 especially) help see different finals series each season and possibly more clubs win premierships.

# i like your model very much cos it has little disturbance to clubs, but as above it has a few questions to be answered

# with the C-Grade comp structure who cares about them for now