HFL Division 1 (Central)

[cracka]

I agree Echunga are a better option for central div than TV, my opinion based on junior numbers, A grade results & club facilities. I also don't think Echunga should be relegated, the only reason I would say relegate them is coz of legsmans constant hatred of the HFL on here.

I'm thinking that due to the unforseen (hindsight is a wonderful thing) result of Echunga coming from 4th to win the flag but finishing bottom of the points table that
1. Next year as a one off central div be an 11 team comp
2. The team that finishes bottom of a revised points system is automatically relegated
3. If the top team in country (also decided on a points system across the whole club) nominates to come up then the bottom 2 in central are relegated.
4. The points are worked out on LGIL's formula A grade win is 10 points, B's 4, S/C 3 & J/C 2. It needs to be weighted more towards A grade results IMO
5. Only issue is whether finals games count towards the points. Would hate another umforseen debacle like this year. This year was a rarity but if it happened again F***.

Anyway, that's what I'm thinking.

[Legs Man]

I agree Echunga are a better option for central div than TV, my opinion based on junior numbers, A grade results & club facilities. I also don't think Echunga should be relegated, the only reason I would say relegate them is coz of legsmans constant hatred of the HFL on here.

I'm thinking that due to the unforseen (hindsight is a wonderful thing) result of Echunga coming from 4th to win the flag but finishing bottom of the points table that
1. Next year as a one off central div be an 11 team comp
2. The team that finishes bottom of a revised points system is automatically relegated
3. If the top team in country (also decided on a points system across the whole club) nominates to come up then the bottom 2 in central are relegated.
4. The points are worked out on LGIL's formula A grade win is 10 points, B's 4, S/C 3 & J/C 2. It needs to be weighted more towards A grade results IMO
5. Only issue is whether finals games count towards the points. Would hate another umforseen debacle like this year. This year was a rarity but if it happened again F***.

Anyway, that's what I'm thinking.

Thanks for the vote of confidence Cracka!

For the record - I do NOT hate the HFL - just ask that some direction is provided by the governing body.
As you have read in my previous posts my comments are subjective from past and present situations that the league has governed over.
Not once have I stated that I hate the HFL - but on numerous occasions have pointed out situations that have left a lot to be desired as a league.
This is not only from my Echunga point of view but the overall situation for all clubs e.g.
Changing finals grounds with limited notice.
Having a points system for clubs that varies from club to club with no apparent reasoning.
Having a club shield that is different to relegation points that provides total confusion for all involved.
Allowing a constitution to be in place that has anomalies which now mean a legal situation that no one in our league needs.

My comments are my own and directly made with the competition as a whole at heart.

[Legs Man]

I agree Echunga are a better option for central div than TV, my opinion based on junior numbers, A grade results & club facilities. I also don't think Echunga should be relegated, the only reason I would say relegate them is coz of legsmans constant hatred of the HFL on here.

I'm thinking that due to the unforseen (hindsight is a wonderful thing) result of Echunga coming from 4th to win the flag but finishing bottom of the points table that
1. Next year as a one off central div be an 11 team comp
2. The team that finishes bottom of a revised points system is automatically relegated
3. If the top team in country (also decided on a points system across the whole club) nominates to come up then the bottom 2 in central are relegated.
4. The points are worked out on LGIL's formula A grade win is 10 points, B's 4, S/C 3 & J/C 2. It needs to be weighted more towards A grade results IMO
5. Only issue is whether finals games count towards the points. Would hate another umforseen debacle like this year. This year was a rarity but if it happened again F***.

Anyway, that's what I'm thinking.

Oh and I absolutely agree with your above thoughts

[cracka]

I agree Echunga are a better option for central div than TV, my opinion based on junior numbers, A grade results & club facilities. I also don't think Echunga should be relegated, the only reason I would say relegate them is coz of legsmans constant hatred of the HFL on here.

I'm thinking that due to the unforseen (hindsight is a wonderful thing) result of Echunga coming from 4th to win the flag but finishing bottom of the points table that
1. Next year as a one off central div be an 11 team comp
2. The team that finishes bottom of a revised points system is automatically relegated
3. If the top team in country (also decided on a points system across the whole club) nominates to come up then the bottom 2 in central are relegated.
4. The points are worked out on LGIL's formula A grade win is 10 points, B's 4, S/C 3 & J/C 2. It needs to be weighted more towards A grade results IMO
5. Only issue is whether finals games count towards the points. Would hate another umforseen debacle like this year. This year was a rarity but if it happened again F***.

Anyway, that's what I'm thinking.

Thanks for the vote of confidence Cracka!

For the record - I do NOT hate the HFL - just ask that some direction is provided by the governing body.
As you have read in my previous posts my comments are subjective from past and present situations that the league has governed over.
Not once have I stated that I hate the HFL - but on numerous occasions have pointed out situations that have left a lot to be desired as a league.
This is not only from my Echunga point of view but the overall situation for all clubs e.g.
Changing finals grounds with limited notice.
Having a points system for clubs that varies from club to club with no apparent reasoning.
Having a club shield that is different to relegation points that provides total confusion for all involved.
Allowing a constitution to be in place that has anomalies which now mean a legal situation that no one in our league needs.

My comments are my own and directly made with the competition as a whole at heart.

Sorry if I offended, I did put a smiley face to show I was joking. Its just that I've never seen you write anything positive about the HFL.
I've told you before the HFL DON'T govern the league, the CLUBS DO. Anything that you feel is wrong with the league, the clubs have voted in.
However your gripe about the finals venue is warrented as that was a board decision & I agree with you that it was wrong.
The HFL tried to change how the APPS points are allocated last year but the clubs voted against it. Allowing TV extra points this year was also a decision the board did wrong, especially as at the AGM they said whatever points are allocated at the start of the year is it, no extra points will be issued.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing. This years anomoly that sees a premier on the bottom of the relegation points is something no one thought would happen & I think everyone agrees should not be allowed to happen again. Again it is the clubs who will decide a solution. I would love to see yours & any one elses solution to this problem that all clubs can agree to.

[Look Good In Leather]

I wonder if Echunga would've still kicked up this much of a stink if they got rolled in the prelim>

Sure they seem to have the media and people outside of the HFL on their side - but they knew exactly what needed to be achieved to stay in Div 1 and as a CLUB they failed.

And know to challenge the legality of the interpretation of the points towards club shield - Give it a spell!! They played 2 guns against bridgewater in the b grade to try and gain some club points during the year.....

So your suggestion is that they should have left all their eggs in the single basket of winning two finals? Perhaps they wanted to increase their chances of survival by getting the points to be safe earlier.

It is a long stretch to say, in hindsight, that they dropped some players to meet a made up deadline of the 23rd of August. There were no guarantees they were going to win two finals, let alone the premiership. Finishing 4th on the table, you could have suggested that they should have won the first week (which on its own was not enough), but anything after that was going to need a big effort.

They effectively needed a miracle to occur in order to remain in Central - that miracle did occur.

[Legs Man]

I agree with the 11 team (or extended comp overall)

If juniors are to be such a focus then an u/13 side is probably a pre-requisite to compete in Central also.

This will weed out the clubs that aren't junior focussed with a view to the future very quickly

Points should be allocated at the AGM and clubs have up to end of Feb to voice any concerns - then no changes are possible after that time.

Inter association comp should be dropped as sides are more focussed on A grade success (as in the AFL) - with paid players they wont risk injury and neither will the clubs.

Finals venues should be set in stone at years start and rotated each year - with a minimum oval and facilities standard required to host a final.
This will ensure clubs spend on facilities also - not just on players - AKA: TV, Mt Barker, Bridgewater.
it also means Maccy wont get the GF again which was completely unjust for other country clubs and seemingly HFL biased.
If your club is lucky enough to play at home in a final - so be it - as it will only occur rarely with proper rotation in place.

Friday and Saturday night footy should also start next year with the program set by the HFL - with no correspondence entered into .
Spend the money on lights that meet the standard and reap the rewards.
Grow attendance and display our game in it's best form.

Put money derived from sponsorship and the Budget back into promotion of the league - not to pay someone to inspect grounds and manage the advertising in the Budget.
The Budget should be self sustaining with its circulation and advertising revenue - 1 sales manager should be employed who is outside of the league with no bias.

Try and get some Central div and Country Div highlight games e.g. last years GF re match played as curtain raisers prior Crows or Power games at Adelaide Oval to promote our league and the standard of it.

i am still of the opinion that a full time CEO is needed for the HFL as it is now at the crossroads for future growth and direction.
Understandably persons on a volunteer basis who have full time employment just don't have the time. (and if they say they do I wouldn't want to be their employer)
Their efforts are still very valuable and should be applauded - but someone who can steer these volunteers and is perceived as unbiased is required.
This allows the volunteers to do what they do best and deflects any criticism away from them and on to the CEO.

The opportunity is now here for the clubs to make change for the betterment of Hills football - lets just hope they look at the big picture and not just their own backyards.

[no1rangler]

I wonder if Echunga would've still kicked up this much of a stink if they got rolled in the prelim>

Sure they seem to have the media and people outside of the HFL on their side - but they knew exactly what needed to be achieved to stay in Div 1 and as a CLUB they failed.

And know to challenge the legality of the interpretation of the points towards club shield - Give it a spell!! They played 2 guns against bridgewater in the b grade to try and gain some club points during the year.....

So your suggestion is that they should have left all their eggs in the single basket of winning two finals? Perhaps they wanted to increase their chances of survival by getting the points to be safe earlier.

It is a long stretch to say, in hindsight, that they dropped some players to meet a made up deadline of the 23rd of August. There were no guarantees they were going to win two finals, let alone the premiership. Finishing 4th on the table, you could have suggested that they should have won the first week (which on its own was not enough), but anything after that was going to need a big effort.

They effectively needed a miracle to occur in order to remain in Central - that miracle did occur.

Youre missing the point LGIL and you've even said it yourself (Perhaps they wanted to increase their chances of survival by getting the points to be safe earlier.) That's exactly right - they knew there were in the mix to get relegated because as a club they knew minor round total points counted - not finals!!

[Legs Man]

Yes at that stage of the season I believe that was Echunga's impression - but the constitution by law came to light after this and has changed the situation.
Naturally it would have been fortuitous for Echunga to have known the by law fault earlier which would have meant a different direction taken.
I reckon most clubs weren't aware of the anomaly and if they were would have also taken a different course.
As we all know - this would have been most apparent to Bridgey, TV and Echunga.
It is common practice for any person or body to seek best outcome in all aspects of daily living whether it be a parking fine, warranty, traffic infringement etc etc.
When an anomaly in a law is discovered it needs to be actioned and explored to ensure the correct outcome is derived.
This acts in a manner that ensures the loophole is fixed appropriately and gives a future direction.
We now know the constitution is written loosely so lets get it fixed.
I am sure this wont be the last time as circumstances change and we must move with the situations presented to us.

[no1rangler]

Be interesting to see what happens LM - Clubs voted against an 11 team comp last year....

[The Panther]

That was before a club due to be relagated was the premier

[overthehill]

Ryan McGahey to coach Onkas in 2015.... Can't say i saw that one coming!

[Legs Man]

Would be a pretty hollow victory not playing against the best in the competition for Central clubs.

If we are relegated we can at least say they were too scared to play us.

If a Country div club that plays Echunga - if we get relegated - beat us they are then theoretically better than the Central clubs who couldn't.

Country division becomes the focus also and has been deemed the better comp by the clubs as this years premier is playing in it.

Reckon it is better not to explore these options and scenarios it brings into play as the competition for the A grade Central AND Country div flags becomes a total farce from a football standpoint.

[Look Good In Leather]

I wonder if Echunga would've still kicked up this much of a stink if they got rolled in the prelim>

Sure they seem to have the media and people outside of the HFL on their side - but they knew exactly what needed to be achieved to stay in Div 1 and as a CLUB they failed.

And know to challenge the legality of the interpretation of the points towards club shield - Give it a spell!! They played 2 guns against bridgewater in the b grade to try and gain some club points during the year.....

So your suggestion is that they should have left all their eggs in the single basket of winning two finals? Perhaps they wanted to increase their chances of survival by getting the points to be safe earlier.

It is a long stretch to say, in hindsight, that they dropped some players to meet a made up deadline of the 23rd of August. There were no guarantees they were going to win two finals, let alone the premiership. Finishing 4th on the table, you could have suggested that they should have won the first week (which on its own was not enough), but anything after that was going to need a big effort.

They effectively needed a miracle to occur in order to remain in Central - that miracle did occur.

Youre missing the point LGIL and you've even said it yourself (Perhaps they wanted to increase their chances of survival by getting the points to be safe earlier.) That's exactly right - they knew there were in the mix to get relegated because as a club they knew minor round total points counted - not finals!!

No I am not missing the point, that is true for both cases. If they knew finals matches counted, they would be stupid to leave it just to that.

There is one big issue with your above statement "they knew there were in the mix to get relegated because as a club they knew minor round total points counted - not finals!!"

It should read "thought", because that seems to be the case, even though that is not what the rule says.

They absolutely knew they were in the mix to be relegated, either if it was only minor round games (in which they finished last), or if finals were counted (in which they had to win 2 A-Grade finals). In both these situations, the 5 additional points for a B-Grade win against Bridgewater (effectively 10 points as Bridgewater were one of the main rivals) were highly desirable. This is in no ways evidence that they "knew" finals didn't count as the game was still worth winning either way.

Fact is nobody truly knows if finals count or not until it is tested. At the moment the rule does not say that they do not count, therefore it is very difficult to mount an argument that they should not in this case.

I find it bizarre that a few junior games are more valuable than an A-Grade finals win.

[R. White]

The situation seems pretty simple to me. The hfl needs to call a special meeting ASAP and put to the clubs:
1. Do finals count towards relegation points? If yes, argument over, if no proceed to
2. Clubs vote on the 11 team comp. again if yes argument over if no.............

I think the HFL think that if they leave these decisions long enough no club will have enough time to fight the outcome before next season. But I would imagine there will be a battle which ever way the decision goes, if the finals count towards relegation it pits Bridgy down and I can't imagine them going quietly, not should they.
If the 11 team comp is knocked back then Echunga will undoubtedly fight it as well. It's clear there are going to be issues but it's all hear say until the hfl get moving!

[Dutchy]

Would be a pretty hollow victory not playing against the best in the competition for Central clubs.

Lofty could argue that also this year, they took their medicine as a club in 2014 and will no doubt be stronger going back up in 2015, maybe Echunga should do the same?

[chopper7]

Not a chance the HFL will drop the interleague game Legsman especially after the success in drew this year. We will still have the bye for the Country Champs, which the hills have no say in because it is inforced by the community football league. An 11 team comp will bring in two extra byes and will drag the season out to long.
Suck it up Echunga, do exactly what Mt Lofty have done and succeeded across ALL grades this year.

Completely off this regalation talk cause I'm sure we are all sick of reading it. As mentioned Ryan Magahey to coach Onkas, not just coach but still play? I can't see the good out of him playing being mid 30s but he should get the doggies back on the right track coaching wise.
Any early news on who will coach Mt Barker next year?

[Legs Man]

Would be a pretty hollow victory not playing against the best in the competition for Central clubs.

Lofty could argue that also this year, they took their medicine as a club in 2014 and will no doubt be stronger going back up in 2015, maybe Echunga should do the same?

No comparison with Mt Lofty as they were bottom across the club.

There is no "suck it up" as Echunga are the reigning premier of Hills Footy.

Echunga were not even given the go ahead to go up until December which gave the other Central clubs a distinct advantage - and they still won!

As stated before if the reigning premier isn't playing in the top tier they have just won it makes both divisions an absolute farce and of no value.

If you reckon you have seen some media coverage to date - imagine what it will be if they are actually relegated.

[Yellow & Black]

You know what I think would be bloody good for the comp? A reduction in points allocation. Scale points as follows based on A Grade finishing order:

Grand Finalists: 3pts
3rd-5th: 5pts
6th-10th: 8pts

This might give every club their time in the sun. Most clubs are currently hell bent on getting caught up in bidding wars for overpaid mercenaries. These $$'s should be pumped back into club junior programs and facilities. I read the local rag on Yorke Peninsula this week which revealed total points clubs had used through the year. Would be an interesting read to expose HFL teams... I think it'd reveal some interesting results.

[Legs Man]

Facilities and juniors is where the clubs must focus.
It is fairly obvious which clubs take this line.
Very apparent where the overall individual club priorities are after travelling the Central div circuit this season.
This should also be taken into account when deciding a clubs value in the top tier comp.
Stop letting clubs spend on players when they present facilities and ovals that are a disgrace.
There should also be a focus on worthiness for top tier central by how many junior sides a club fields.
As a league the priority is overall development and the showcasing of our competition - not just a points relegation system.
Some clubs were very smart when formulating the relegation points system - noticeably those with strong juniors.
Echunga should have been smart too and made sure we had more B grade depth - which we were unable to do when notified so late of promotion acceptance.
We can roll out all the excuses we like - but it will make no difference unless ALL the clubs stand up and get it right for everyone - not just themselves.

[Look Good In Leather]

Not a chance the HFL will drop the interleague game Legsman especially after the success in drew this year. We will still have the bye for the Country Champs, which the hills have no say in because it is inforced by the community football league. An 11 team comp will bring in two extra byes and will drag the season out to long.
Suck it up Echunga, do exactly what Mt Lofty have done and succeeded across ALL grades this year.

Completely off this regalation talk cause I'm sure we are all sick of reading it. As mentioned Ryan Magahey to coach Onkas, not just coach but still play? I can't see the good out of him playing being mid 30s but he should get the doggies back on the right track coaching wise.
Any early news on who will coach Mt Barker next year?

Mount Lofty have succeeded in all grades this year in a lesser competition, no comparison
Echunga went undefeated in that comp last year and made finals in 2 of the 3 other grades that count