HFL Division 1 (Central)

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Re: HFL Central Division

Postby Look Good In Leather » Fri Nov 21, 2014 12:00 pm

chopper7 wrote:
Look Good In Leather wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
The Panther wrote:*****

Will this symbol appear in the record books along side the name of the 2015 premiers, representing the fact that they didn't have to win a premiership against the reigning premiers.

Premierships are great no matter what , but I would think in order to be the best you would want to beat the best.


SAAFL would have an asterix against every single premiership if that was the case!


Are Goodwood Saints being relegated?


No but div 2,3,4,5,6,7 clubs are being promoted, good point dutchy I'm with you there.


Promoted to a better division, not relegated to a lower division. I guess the air is a bit thinner up in the hills.
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Re: HFL Central Division

Postby Off The Wall » Fri Nov 21, 2014 12:15 pm

Look Good In Leather wrote:
chopper7 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
The Panther wrote:*****

Will this symbol appear in the record books along side the name of the 2015 premiers, representing the fact that they didn't have to win a premiership against the reigning premiers.

Premierships are great no matter what , but I would think in order to be the best you would want to beat the best.


SAAFL would have an asterix against every single premiership if that was the case!



No but div 2,3,4,5,6,7 clubs are being promoted, good point dutchy I'm with you there.


Promoted to a better division, not relegated to a lower division. I guess the air is a bit thinner up in the hills.

The point is those in the divisions are still not playing against the reigning premier though are they. Air must be a bit dutched out in Christies :weedman:
Last edited by Off The Wall on Fri Nov 21, 2014 12:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: HFL Central Division

Postby chopper7 » Fri Nov 21, 2014 12:19 pm

Cheers OTW at least someone knows what I meant. At least we can move on from this now and welcome the devils back. Peterson-Gray and Gordon signed at Loxton apparently
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Re: HFL Central Division

Postby 200 Killer Wasps » Fri Nov 21, 2014 12:55 pm

What will happen with the shield that Echunga were presented with on Grand Final day. I cant imagine they would just hand it back without having the copportunity to defend it as I assume would be written into the constitution.
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Re: HFL Central Division

Postby Legs Man » Fri Nov 21, 2014 2:10 pm

One word sums up the HFL - JOKE!!!

I hoped that both the clubs and HFL would realise the best option - which was to count finals accumulated points.

Self centred decision by clubs voting against it and one which is insane.

They were all given the best option for the competition as a whole - backed with legal consultation and didn't take it.

Common sense and an opportunity to put this all behind them and get on with next season - but alas they couldn't comprehend this.

Unbelievably the clubs voted only a month ago that points from finals count when allocating apps points for the next season.

This leaves me shaking my head in disbelief - WTF!

Other points obviously not taken into consideration:

Uneven playing field with respect to TV who were allocated more points on a whim by the HFL - disgraceful again particularly when the HFL stated that no extra points would be allocated as of the start of the 2014 season.
Allowing TV to host the important second round match when their sad excuse for an oval wasn't fit for a pig to wallow in is another example.
The parameters apparently set by the HFL in this instance were not fulfilled by TV but the league still allowed them to play there.

A reduced preparation time for Echunga going into Central was also another determining factor which was obviously not taken into account when voting.

Interesting times ahead as I can assure everyone that Echunga will not take this decision as the finality of the relegation case.

Why would clubs and the HFL put themselves in this predicament when they know full well the legal standing with respect to the by laws within the constitution.

It seems legal opinion has been totally disregarded in this instance - the concerned parties obviously know better.

The decision by all parties concerned is one they should hang their heads in shame for.

I hope they are prepared for what is to come.
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Re: HFL Central Division

Postby chopper7 » Fri Nov 21, 2014 2:38 pm

Legs Man wrote:One word sums up the HFL - JOKE!!!

I hoped that both the clubs and HFL would realise the best option - which was to count finals accumulated points.

Self centred decision by clubs voting against it and one which is insane.

They were all given the best option for the competition as a whole - backed with legal consultation and didn't take it.

Common sense and an opportunity to put this all behind them and get on with next season - but alas they couldn't comprehend this.

Unbelievably the clubs voted only a month ago that points from finals count when allocating apps points for the next season.

This leaves me shaking my head in disbelief - WTF!

Other points obviously not taken into consideration:

Uneven playing field with respect to TV who were allocated more points on a whim by the HFL - disgraceful again particularly when the HFL stated that no extra points would be allocated as of the start of the 2014 season.
Allowing TV to host the important second round match when their sad excuse for an oval wasn't fit for a pig to wallow in is another example.
The parameters apparently set by the HFL in this instance were not fulfilled by TV but the league still allowed them to play there.

A reduced preparation time for Echunga going into Central was also another determining factor which was obviously not taken into account when voting.

Interesting times ahead as I can assure everyone that Echunga will not take this decision as the finality of the relegation case.

Why would clubs and the HFL put themselves in this predicament when they know full well the legal standing with respect to the by laws within the constitution.

It seems legal opinion has been totally disregarded in this instance - the concerned parties obviously know better.

The decision by all parties concerned is one they should hang their heads in shame for.

I hope they are prepared for what is to come.



Mt Torrens looked like a bowling green compared to the week before when lobethal had to play on it.... That isn't a legimate excuse Legsman
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Re: HFL Central Division

Postby Yellow & Black » Fri Nov 21, 2014 3:13 pm

Legs - I'm guessing the Clubs voted against the motion in the best interest of the League. It would've clearly advantaged the powerhouse Junior Clubs such as Hahndorf and Blackwood who year in year out could notch up an 4-8 extra wins from their U15's and U17's finals campaigns. Similarly it can reward teams like yourself who came from the Elimination Final giving you the opportunity for 4 extra wins. Your motion would've suited you this year, but think about the future. Take this for an example - Say Echunga and TV are 9th and 10th respectively on the P&R ladder with only 2pts separating you at the end of the minor round, let's say Echunga finish top in the A Grade and go onto win the flag again (gaining 2 finals wins). Torrens Valley come from 5th and make the grand final, therefore notching up 3 finals wins along the way and overtake you, would that mean Echunga takes the League to court again?

I agree it's a sad set of circumstances and I believe you have a place in Central but not this way. I also believe Bridgey have earned a right to compete in Central.
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Re: HFL Central Division

Postby StickyFingers » Fri Nov 21, 2014 3:14 pm

Legs Man wrote:One word sums up the HFL - JOKE!!!

I hoped that both the clubs and HFL would realise the best option - which was to count finals accumulated points.

Self centred decision by clubs voting against it and one which is insane.

They were all given the best option for the competition as a whole - backed with legal consultation and didn't take it.

Common sense and an opportunity to put this all behind them and get on with next season - but alas they couldn't comprehend this.

Unbelievably the clubs voted only a month ago that points from finals count when allocating apps points for the next season.

This leaves me shaking my head in disbelief - WTF!

Other points obviously not taken into consideration:

Uneven playing field with respect to TV who were allocated more points on a whim by the HFL - disgraceful again particularly when the HFL stated that no extra points would be allocated as of the start of the 2014 season.
Allowing TV to host the important second round match when their sad excuse for an oval wasn't fit for a pig to wallow in is another example.
The parameters apparently set by the HFL in this instance were not fulfilled by TV but the league still allowed them to play there.

A reduced preparation time for Echunga going into Central was also another determining factor which was obviously not taken into account when voting.

Interesting times ahead as I can assure everyone that Echunga will not take this decision as the finality of the relegation case.

Why would clubs and the HFL put themselves in this predicament when they know full well the legal standing with respect to the by laws within the constitution.

It seems legal opinion has been totally disregarded in this instance - the concerned parties obviously know better.

The decision by all parties concerned is one they should hang their heads in shame for.

I hope they are prepared for what is to come.


As shown last night with the 16 – 3 vote, the clubs did not agree with retrospectively changing the way that the bylaw has always been understood and interpreted. Basically attempting to change the rule after the season to save themselves… it was insane and self-centred for Echunga to think that would get through.

I can’t imagine that your constant belittling of the league and now threats to other clubs will help your cause Legs Man. I understand and agree with your frustration about the extra points allocated to TV, but you can’t keep blaming that muddy day at TV... there have been many games like that in the history of hills footy and there will be plenty more!
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Re: HFL Central Division

Postby Dutchy » Fri Nov 21, 2014 3:44 pm

Well this time last year most thought that Lofty would be up and Echunga would be down in 2015. What is all the fuss? :lol:
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Re: HFL Central Division

Postby Legs Man » Fri Nov 21, 2014 4:00 pm

Most also thought Echunga wouldn't be good enough to win the premiership.

I am not trying to be little the clubs - but am amazed that they didn't take the logical and common sense option availed them.

It seems that a side can start a season disadvantaged, be further disadvantaged during the season, go on to win the comp and be relegated.

Along with presenting more players into the junior competition than some other Central clubs and having great facilities to showcase the game.

You are right with respect to the HFL though and my thoughts have only been endorsed by their decisions this season:

Allocating more points to TV and going back on their initial direction.
Taking a final off Echunga with no reason or logical explanation and gifting it to Mt Barker - with what many note here as very sub standard facilities. (bear in mind this is a decision that effects Echunga financially with lost revenue)

The uneven playing field was created by the league and the league only as the above were not club decisions.

There is no threat being made to other clubs - just the statement that Echunga will follow the direction and legal position they have been advised of.

I have also gained opinion from knowledgeable and highly respected people involved in football across many spheres - from AFL, SANFL, and other amateur / country leagues - with a resounding feedback and opinion that the current situation is ridiculous and shows the entire relegation system is flawed (from weighting of grades to apps points allocation)

Sometimes it does take an outside opinion to see what the involved clubs cannot - effectively being unable to see the forest from the trees.

No doubt any other club in the same situation as Echunga now finds itself in would do likewise.
Last edited by Legs Man on Fri Nov 21, 2014 4:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: HFL Central Division

Postby Elmer J Thudpucker » Fri Nov 21, 2014 4:11 pm

Legs Man wrote:Most also thought Echunga wouldn't be good enough to win the premiership.

I am not trying to be little the clubs - but am amazed that they didn't take the logical and common sense option availed them.

It seems that a side can start a season disadvantaged, be further disadvantaged during the season, go on to win the comp and be relegated.

Along with presenting more players into the junior competition than some other Central clubs and having great facilities to showcase the game.

You are right with respect to the HFL though and my thoughts have only been endorsed by their decisions this season:

Allocating more points to TV and going back on their initial direction.
Taking a final off Echunga with no reason or logical explanation and gifting it to Mt Barker - with what many note here as very sub standard facilities. (bear in mind this is a decision that effects Echunga financially with lost revenue)

The uneven playing field was created by the league and the league only as the above were not club decisions.

There is no threat being made to other clubs - just the statement that Echunga will follow the direction and legal position they have been advised of.

No doubt any other club in the same situation would do likewise.


Legsman

I think there’s two separate issues you’re raising.

You won’t get much argument from any as to the issue of equity. Most would agree that TV were clearly advantaged during the year with additional points (Chad O’Sullivan anyone?) and permits to enable them to field junior teams.

I agree that this was unfair, but it’s hard to rectify this after the fact.

However the HFL SGM of last night is an entirely different matter.

The 19 HFL Clubs that attended the SGM were not asked to vote on whether Echunga should be in Central Division, or whether Echunga have a right to defend their title, or whether TV should be sent back.

They were simply asked to vote on an interpretation of an existing by-law. Specifically, what does it say, what is its intention, how has it been traditionally implemented and how do Clubs currently interpret it.

On this issue the vote was unequivocal – 16 of the 19 clubs agreed that the by-law’s intention, previous implementation and interpretation were that it was for the minor round only.

Technically, the only 2 clubs that could be accused of voting on ‘self-interest’ are Echunga and Bridgewater as they were the only clubs with anything to lose. The fact that 15 of the other 17 clubs – who would not be impacted by the result of the vote – were adamant that Echunga’s interpretation of the by-laws was incorrect probably tells you something.

Let’s be honest here, if Echunga finished 2 points above TV at the end of the minor round (and were therefore safe from relegation), then lost the first A grade final, while TV won the first B grade final, do you think Echunga would hold a different view on the by-law – of course they would.

It’s up to Echunga what they do next but gathering support for an 11 team comp may be the only solution.

Legal action would be costly and unlikely to be resolved until the end of the next season anyway. All the Clubs have seen the Echunga legal opinion, the fact that it didn’t change anything might give you an insight as to it’s worth.
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Re: HFL Central Division

Postby Legs Man » Fri Nov 21, 2014 4:54 pm

The clubs should ensure an equitable structure is maintained shouldn't they?

How can we have a structure which allows for a team to win the premier title in the highest competition and be relegated.

Does this alone not show the flawed system we play under?

Reserves sides gaining more points than Senior colts (isn't your A grade and Senior Colts the 2 most valued sides - it certainly is with SANFL and recruiting)

Why can sides have more points than others for apps when this is integral to ability to field stronger A & B sides?

How badly uneven is the Country comp - with sides getting floggings week in week out.

Why can clubs be allocated finals matches when presenting below standard facilities.

How can Macclesfield be given the Country GF 3 years in a row - denying other Country clubs much needed revenue (look at what Maccy spent on players this season)

Let's be honest here and agree that the majority of clubs only have their own interests at heart.

With this being the case only a strong administrative body can provide real direction for the betterment of the 2 competitions.

After 2 years of this occurring with the current relegation system doesn't this tell you something?

After the negative press regarding the uneven Country Div and relegation debacle doesn't this tell you something is wrong also.

A total revamp of the competitions and how they are governed is desperately needed - and needed now.

But while Central clubs are adamant an expanded comp isn't on the agenda, and they keep the same side weighting for relegation, we will not grow our competition into what it should be.
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Re: HFL Central Division

Postby daysofourlives » Fri Nov 21, 2014 5:04 pm

Can anyone answer this question?

Why when there is relegation in the HFL do all clubs have different amount of points available for recruiting? Surely everyone has the same so that there is a level playing field especially when the chance of being relegated are increased or decreased depending on how many points.
I hope Euchunga take this further.
There would be a fair sort of argument about the extra points granted to TV by the Board which i would hazard a guess isnt exactly in the spirit of the rules etc much the same as whether finals count or not for relegation

The HFL is an absolute joke, they didnt know what to do with the worst team in SA and now they have one of the best teams in SA playing in a 2nd rate comp.
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Re: HFL Central Division

Postby From The Outer » Fri Nov 21, 2014 5:13 pm

Have not followed this situation that much so had a look at the Hills bylaws to see what all the hooha was about and it would seem pretty clear in 18.3 that allocation of points relates to the minor round. Not sure why this forum seems intent on bashing league officials when all they do is administer the rules as directed to by the clubs.
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Re: HFL Central Division

Postby Legs Man » Fri Nov 21, 2014 5:30 pm

From The Outer wrote:Have not followed this situation that much so had a look at the Hills bylaws to see what all the hooha was about and it would seem pretty clear in 18.3 that allocation of points relates to the minor round. Not sure why this forum seems intent on bashing league officials when all they do is administer the rules as directed to by the clubs.


AND allocate extra points to a club after stating they would not providing an advantage to that club.
AND take a final away from a club and gift it to a club with inferior facilities - having financial ramifications.
AND allow clubs to present facilities which are well below par when competing in the top tier competition.
AND give 1 Country club the GF 3 years running providing a 3 year financial gain.

If you are going to administer - DO IT FAIRLY - and with no possible recourse of being viewed as biased.
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Re: HFL Central Division

Postby rock » Fri Nov 21, 2014 5:36 pm

daysofourlives wrote:Can anyone answer this question?

Why when there is relegation in the HFL do all clubs have different amount of points available for recruiting? Surely everyone has the same so that there is a level playing field especially when the chance of being relegated are increased or decreased depending on how many points.
I hope Euchunga take this further.
There would be a fair sort of argument about the extra points granted to TV by the Board which i would hazard a guess isnt exactly in the spirit of the rules etc much the same as whether finals count or not for relegation

The HFL is an absolute joke, they didnt know what to do with the worst team in SA and now they have one of the best teams in SA playing in a 2nd rate comp.


Best teams??? Perhaps concentrate on your 4 other teams a little more (you know those ones that don't get paid to play footy) and you might still be in Central Div. It's about the CLUB not the A grade side and Echunga as a CLUB is one of the weakest CLUB'S in Central Div :)
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Re: HFL Central Division

Postby Look Good In Leather » Fri Nov 21, 2014 5:47 pm

Off The Wall wrote:
Look Good In Leather wrote:
chopper7 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
SAAFL would have an asterix against every single premiership if that was the case!



No but div 2,3,4,5,6,7 clubs are being promoted, good point dutchy I'm with you there.


Promoted to a better division, not relegated to a lower division. I guess the air is a bit thinner up in the hills.

The point is those in the divisions are still not playing against the reigning premier though are they. Air must be a bit dutched out in Christies :weedman:


Does anyone really care about who won the Division 9 North premiership outside of that league though?
Who were the SAAFL Premiers? Goodwood Saints
Who were the Hills FL Premiers? Echunga

The main prize Mount Lofty won this year was a ticket back into Division 1 where they can get back to challenging for the Premiership, after the success they have had in the past, a Division 2 flag does not quite stack up.

You are arguing something completely different. I do not see the Amateurs relegating Goodwood Saints, the premiers of the lower grades have won the right NOT to play in the lower division the following year.
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Re: HFL Central Division

Postby daysofourlives » Fri Nov 21, 2014 5:47 pm

rock wrote:
daysofourlives wrote:Can anyone answer this question?

Why when there is relegation in the HFL do all clubs have different amount of points available for recruiting? Surely everyone has the same so that there is a level playing field especially when the chance of being relegated are increased or decreased depending on how many points.
I hope Euchunga take this further.
There would be a fair sort of argument about the extra points granted to TV by the Board which i would hazard a guess isnt exactly in the spirit of the rules etc much the same as whether finals count or not for relegation

The HFL is an absolute joke, they didnt know what to do with the worst team in SA and now they have one of the best teams in SA playing in a 2nd rate comp.


Best teams??? Perhaps concentrate on your 4 other teams a little more (you know those ones that don't get paid to play footy) and you might still be in Central Div. It's about the CLUB not the A grade side and Echunga as a CLUB is one of the weakest CLUB'S in Central Div :)


Im not from Euchunga, just an observer from outside the league, crawl back under your Rock.
Perhaps if Euchunga were given a heap of permits to play over agers in their juniors they would have won more games or perhaps if they didnt put the development of senior colts 1st by playing them in the A Grade they may have also won more junior games
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Re: HFL Central Division

Postby Look Good In Leather » Fri Nov 21, 2014 5:49 pm

chopper7 wrote:
Legs Man wrote:One word sums up the HFL - JOKE!!!

I hoped that both the clubs and HFL would realise the best option - which was to count finals accumulated points.

Self centred decision by clubs voting against it and one which is insane.

They were all given the best option for the competition as a whole - backed with legal consultation and didn't take it.

Common sense and an opportunity to put this all behind them and get on with next season - but alas they couldn't comprehend this.

Unbelievably the clubs voted only a month ago that points from finals count when allocating apps points for the next season.

This leaves me shaking my head in disbelief - WTF!

Other points obviously not taken into consideration:

Uneven playing field with respect to TV who were allocated more points on a whim by the HFL - disgraceful again particularly when the HFL stated that no extra points would be allocated as of the start of the 2014 season.
Allowing TV to host the important second round match when their sad excuse for an oval wasn't fit for a pig to wallow in is another example.
The parameters apparently set by the HFL in this instance were not fulfilled by TV but the league still allowed them to play there.

A reduced preparation time for Echunga going into Central was also another determining factor which was obviously not taken into account when voting.

Interesting times ahead as I can assure everyone that Echunga will not take this decision as the finality of the relegation case.

Why would clubs and the HFL put themselves in this predicament when they know full well the legal standing with respect to the by laws within the constitution.

It seems legal opinion has been totally disregarded in this instance - the concerned parties obviously know better.

The decision by all parties concerned is one they should hang their heads in shame for.

I hope they are prepared for what is to come.



Mt Torrens looked like a bowling green compared to the week before when lobethal had to play on it.... That isn't a legimate excuse Legsman


Yeah, the Mount Torrens condition argument is irrelevant - I am sure at this stage your club would be willing to play a game on the moon as long as it is in Central next year.

The rest of your points are spot on though.
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Re: HFL Central Division

Postby cracka » Fri Nov 21, 2014 6:03 pm

daysofourlives wrote:Can anyone answer this question?

Why when there is relegation in the HFL do all clubs have different amount of points available for recruiting? Surely everyone has the same so that there is a level playing field especially when the chance of being relegated are increased or decreased depending on how many points.
I hope Euchunga take this further.
There would be a fair sort of argument about the extra points granted to TV by the Board which i would hazard a guess isnt exactly in the spirit of the rules etc much the same as whether finals count or not for relegation

The HFL is an absolute joke, they didnt know what to do with the worst team in SA and now they have one of the best teams in SA playing in a 2nd rate comp.

What could they have done with Callington, enlighten us. Kilburn & Angle Vale in SAAFL have suffered equal or worse floggings than Callington ever did & they didn't do anything either. What about Barossa league, didn't Tanunda win a flag one year & then were only given 1 APPS point so they had to let go all their recruits almost decimating the club out of existence. Like I keep saying all leagues have issues.
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