HFL Division 1 (Central)

[cracka]

Was still Div 1 and Div 2 when we left in 1990

Yeah I'm pretty sure it changed in the 2000's but not sure what year exactly.
What club were you with.

[Jim05]

Was still Div 1 and Div 2 when we left in 1990

Yeah I'm pretty sure it changed in the 2000's but not sure what year exactly.
What club were you with.

Barossa Districts

[Ye Olde Place Kick]

Cannot wait to see how Bridgewater go back in country ----the last couple of seasons have seen the premiers being undefeated , what chance Bridgewater being undefeated 2015. Nice photo of the pub, see you there for a beer or two ,might even pick up a point or two about being a premier club.

1 A grade Div 1 in 105 years and you wanna start dishing out points to win flags??
Get over yourself ya spook.

I wasnt aware there was a Div 1, i thought it was Central and Country.
Since it was so easy for a country div club to win a Central flag maybe country is the better Div.
Echunga's 16 flags are the equal of any won by the toffy nosed Central Div clubs who had their noses put out of joint by the little country upstart.

HFL has changed what its been called so many times
67-71 it was Northern, Southern & Central
72-78 it was zone 1, zone 2 & zone 3
79-82 it was zone 1 & zone 2
83 all clubs played in 1 div
84-?? it was div 1 & div 2
??-2014 it was central div & country div
2015 its going back to div 1 & div 2
It technically has been a div 1 & 2 from 79 when zone 1 was considered the stronger (for lack of a better word) zone.
Echunga were in the stronger div/zone from 80-91.

Bit of history with a question at the end.

Early 67 a series of meetings were held that started with the idea of a new league being formed from the top 4 teams in the old Torrens Valley and Hills Central Football Associations. A couple of clubs in each league had dominated proceedings over the years against smaller clubs. A look at the 66 premiership tables will give people an idea.

HCA - Hahndorf 30, Bridgewater 26, Mt Barker 22, Onkaparinga 20, Bremer (former team from Callington) 14, Macclesfield 14, Langhorne Creek 12, echunga 12, Littlehampton 10, Milang 10, Narine 8, Meadows 2 with Mylor playing in the B grade
TVFA - Uraidla 28, Lobethal 24, Birdwood 18 Woodside/Army (united team of the town and the Army base) 18, Stirling (very strong club during the 50's and early 60's) 16, Gumeracha 16, Pleasant Valley 6. (byes counted as 2 points as well meaning PV actually didn't win a game) Sedan Cambrai and Palmer in the B Grade.

An agreement was reached to start what is now the Hills Football League.

Central Zone was for the strongest teams not only in success but numbers too. It included Hahndorf, Bridgewater, Mt Barker, Onkaparinga Valley (merger of the Onkaparinga HCFA and Woodside TVFA ), Uraidla, Lobethal, Birdwood, Stirling (the original clubs looking to form a new league) and from the Amateur league the newly formed Heathfield Aldgate United. Each club to field A, B and colts (under 16) teams. This has always been regarded and maintained by the league as the best grade whether it was called Central, Zone 1 or Central Div ( 2003 the name change took place to Central and Country)

Northern Zone was for the rest of the smaller TVFA clubs. Pleasant Valley, Sedan Cambrai, Army, (just the players from the base) Gumeracha, Palmer and the reformed Williamstown (1st year) and newly formed Lenswood Rangers. Each club to field a senior team and colts (bar Palmer and Army)

Southern Zone was for the rest of the HCFA clubs. Littlehampton, Echunga, Narine, Macclesfield fielding A & B's. Milang, Langhorne Creek, Bremer, Meadows, Kangarilla A's and Mylor & Heathfield Aldgate (3rd team) B's. All clubs bar H A United fielding colts.

B grade didn't start in the Northern zone until 1970 ( Mt Torrens only A's, Palmer disbanded for a while ) and in the Southern it varied over the years who fielded B's as clubs varied in their numbers. As can be noted some clubs no longer exist or have merged, moved to other leagues and new clubs come in. All the while the league has changed it's structure to suit and maintain one of it's original goals listed back in 67 of "a levelling of standards". Yes Cracka your timeline is correct.

Today some clubs are struggling to field A & B's and full junior grades.

So the question is asked can the league go back to the future and learn from when it started with having 1 or 2 zones for clubs that can field all grades and another zone for clubs that can't or clubs that bite the bullet money wise and don't bring in imports just field locals and field a senior team and perhaps one or two colts teams? Or has time passed that scenario by?

[Legs Man]

Interesting bit of history.

Seems the make up of the competition changed to suit the times which is the best way forward IMO.

My thoughts would be to allow any hills club that wants to play Central comp to do so providing they can field all 4 teams every gameday.

Draw is to be structured from previous seasons results and is 18 - 20 rounds depending on AFL draw timing, association and country champs.

There is no need to play each other twice as this is another major roadblock in place currently.

Natural attrition will then take effect with clubs not strong enough falling back into the second tier comp.

Only 2 divisions with the second tier having all clubs left including current C grade sides.

Time and results will sort out the makeup of each division. ( no relegation - allow clubs to come up and go down as required )

No club shield / points as this is a definite roadblock if retained - and has simply been a safety net for clubs with strong juniors.

All clubs have the same apps points allowance with no extra allocation allowable, regardless of circumstance, ensuring an even chance for all.

This also stops the remuneration of players / recruits from increasing as points reduce.

Even rotation of finals match ground allocation set at the start of each season regardless of who is playing in them or likely to. ( no changes allowed once set )

Clubs must meet a certain criteria with respect to facilities to qualify to go in the finals ground rotation draw.

Level heads and common sense is needed from now on with "own club" agendas and "league bias" forgone for the sake of hills football.

[cracka]

Interesting bit of history.

Seems the make up of the competition changed to suit the times which is the best way forward IMO.

My thoughts would be to allow any hills club that wants to play Central comp to do so providing they can field all 4 teams every gameday.

Draw is to be structured from previous seasons results and is 18 - 20 rounds depending on AFL draw timing, association and country champs.

There is no need to play each other twice as this is another major roadblock in place currently.

Natural attrition will then take effect with clubs not strong enough falling back into the second tier comp.

Only 2 divisions with the second tier having all clubs left including current C grade sides.

Time and results will sort out the makeup of each division. ( no relegation - allow clubs to come up and go down as required )

No club shield / points as this is a definite roadblock if retained - and has simply been a safety net for clubs with strong juniors.

All clubs have the same apps points allowance with no extra allocation allowable, regardless of circumstance, ensuring an even chance for all.

This also stops the remuneration of players / recruits from increasing as points reduce.

Even rotation of finals match ground allocation set at the start of each season regardless of who is playing in them or likely to. ( no changes allowed once set )

Clubs must meet a certain criteria with respect to facilities to qualify to go in the finals ground rotation draw.

Level heads and common sense is needed from now on with "own club" agendas and "league bias" forgone for the sake of hills football.

This is the sort of post I've been waiting for from you. Constructive thoughts, looking towards the future & no abuse about what has happened in the past. Plus I agree with it all. Well done.

[Legs Man]

Interesting bit of history.

Seems the make up of the competition changed to suit the times which is the best way forward IMO.

My thoughts would be to allow any hills club that wants to play Central comp to do so providing they can field all 4 teams every gameday.

Draw is to be structured from previous seasons results and is 18 - 20 rounds depending on AFL draw timing, association and country champs.

There is no need to play each other twice as this is another major roadblock in place currently.

Natural attrition will then take effect with clubs not strong enough falling back into the second tier comp.

Only 2 divisions with the second tier having all clubs left including current C grade sides.

Time and results will sort out the makeup of each division. ( no relegation - allow clubs to come up and go down as required )

No club shield / points as this is a definite roadblock if retained - and has simply been a safety net for clubs with strong juniors.

All clubs have the same apps points allowance with no extra allocation allowable, regardless of circumstance, ensuring an even chance for all.

This also stops the remuneration of players / recruits from increasing as points reduce.

Even rotation of finals match ground allocation set at the start of each season regardless of who is playing in them or likely to. ( no changes allowed once set )

Clubs must meet a certain criteria with respect to facilities to qualify to go in the finals ground rotation draw.

Level heads and common sense is needed from now on with "own club" agendas and "league bias" forgone for the sake of hills football.

This is the sort of post I've been waiting for from you. Constructive thoughts, looking towards the future & no abuse about what has happened in the past. Plus I agree with it all. Well done.

Cheers Cracka!

You guys have picked up a good recruit in Grocke - well done! ( nice piece in the Sunday mail also )

[The Gimp]

What if all clubs nominated to play Country Div next season? Obviously the courts have decided that Echunga can't be removed from Central Div so they would be there playing with themselves (something they've proved they are very good at).

We could have one Country division for 2015.
Every side plays each other once. Top 8 for finals.
Central and Country would then be scrapped being replaced by div 1, 2 and 3.
The final ladder position for A grade (post GF) in season 2015 would determine the division split for 2016 with div 1 to have 8 clubs with the remaining in div 2. To play in either div 1 or 2 in season 2016, the club must have A's, B's, U18 and U15 with U13 optional.
If any club does not fill all 4 grades in 2015 (allowing max 1 forfeit per team during season) they cannot nominate for div 1 or 2 in 2016. There will be a div 3 for the clubs that cannot fill all 4 grades or any club that enters an extra team (C grade).
To enter div 2 from div 3, you must be able to prove that you will have all 4 grades before entry will be accepted.
Promotion/relegation will based on A grade results with the premier in div 2 having first option, then the other grand finalist having option if the premier declines.

For any club that then wants to enter either div 1 or 2 for season 2016 that didn't play in the "2015 Country Div grading season", a fee of $60k would apply.

[Legs Man]

What if all clubs nominated to play Country Div next season? Obviously the courts have decided that Echunga can't be removed from Central Div so they would be there playing with themselves (something they've proved they are very good at).

We could have one Country division for 2015.
Every side plays each other once. Top 8 for finals.
Central and Country would then be scrapped being replaced by div 1, 2 and 3.
The final ladder position for A grade (post GF) in season 2015 would determine the division split for 2016 with div 1 to have 8 clubs with the remaining in div 2. To play in either div 1 or 2 in season 2016, the club must have A's, B's, U18 and U15 with U13 optional.
If any club does not fill all 4 grades in 2015 (allowing max 1 forfeit per team during season) they cannot nominate for div 1 or 2 in 2016. There will be a div 3 for the clubs that cannot fill all 4 grades or any club that enters an extra team (C grade).
To enter div 2 from div 3, you must be able to prove that you will have all 4 grades before entry will be accepted.
Promotion/relegation will based on A grade results with the premier in div 2 having first option, then the other grand finalist having option if the premier declines.

For any club that then wants to enter either div 1 or 2 for season 2016 that didn't play in the "2015 Country Div grading season", a fee of $60k would apply.

To ensure you are clear in what has occured so you can also move forward logically and with the best interest of hills footy:

The Supreme Court judge has stipulated in no uncertain terms that his judgement is not to be tampered with or manipulated with respect to all elements of his ruling.
This applies to costs awarded and that Echunga is not disadvantaged in any manner by the governing body of the HFL - now or into the future.

Justice Stanley will be monitoring the implementation of his ruling and watching this evolve like a hawk.

It is in everyone's best interest to now move forward in line with his ruling regardless of our own thoughts or opinions.

[cracka]

What if all clubs nominated to play Country Div next season? Obviously the courts have decided that Echunga can't be removed from Central Div so they would be there playing with themselves (something they've proved they are very good at).

We could have one Country division for 2015.
Every side plays each other once. Top 8 for finals.
Central and Country would then be scrapped being replaced by div 1, 2 and 3.
The final ladder position for A grade (post GF) in season 2015 would determine the division split for 2016 with div 1 to have 8 clubs with the remaining in div 2. To play in either div 1 or 2 in season 2016, the club must have A's, B's, U18 and U15 with U13 optional.
If any club does not fill all 4 grades in 2015 (allowing max 1 forfeit per team during season) they cannot nominate for div 1 or 2 in 2016. There will be a div 3 for the clubs that cannot fill all 4 grades or any club that enters an extra team (C grade).
To enter div 2 from div 3, you must be able to prove that you will have all 4 grades before entry will be accepted.
Promotion/relegation will based on A grade results with the premier in div 2 having first option, then the other grand finalist having option if the premier declines.

For any club that then wants to enter either div 1 or 2 for season 2016 that didn't play in the "2015 Country Div grading season", a fee of $60k would apply.

I really hope you're taking the P155 here.

[Armytank]

I think it is the only way forward cracka.

A super league for 2015 which becomes the grading for the 2016 division structure. It is the only sensible solution that gives EVERYONE in the HFL a fair chance.

What happens if Nairne win the right and want to go to Central Div in 2016? With a "one off" 11 team Central Div in 2015, this will require 2 clubs to be relegated in 2016.

It will only prolong the mess yet again

[Legs Man]

I think it is the only way forward cracka.

A super league for 2015 which becomes the grading for the 2016 division structure. It is the only sensible solution that gives EVERYONE in the HFL a fair chance.

What happens if Nairne win the right and want to go to Central Div in 2016? With a "one off" 11 team Central Div in 2015, this will require 2 clubs to be relegated in 2016.

It will only prolong the mess yet again

I hear 12 teams is now on the table for this season. (Nairne up also with meetings to discuss organised)

This will work OK - but relegation needs to be scrapped along with uneven apps points allocation. (you want to play Central then there should be no barrier - if you can field all 4 sides)

Must be a level playing field from now on.

[rock]

I think it is the only way forward cracka.

A super league for 2015 which becomes the grading for the 2016 division structure. It is the only sensible solution that gives EVERYONE in the HFL a fair chance.

What happens if Nairne win the right and want to go to Central Div in 2016? With a "one off" 11 team Central Div in 2015, this will require 2 clubs to be relegated in 2016.

It will only prolong the mess yet again

AGREED Armytank.

The HFL are proposing an 11 team comp for Central but with only 18 rounds. Meaning each club will play 16 games plus 2 byes. Which also means there will be 4 clubs in which you only play once. At the end of 2015 a club WILL be relegated returning Central to a 10 team competition. However if a club from Country wants to be promoted then 2 clubs from Central Div WILL be relegated. I know this has been proposed to 'look after Bridgewater' but it is hardly fair for the possible '2 clubs' at the end of 2015 who may be relegated because of this mess.

An uneven and unfair draw is not the way to resolve this. Unfortunately now there is collatoral damage and that club is Bridgewater. Lets all face it Bridgewater have been dodging the relegation bullet for a long long time. It maybe harsh but it is the best thing for the League.

The 4 clubs you play once maybe the only ones you defeat and you won't get an opportunity to play them again. Meaning instead of 8 wins a club may only get 4 wins. Thats the difference between bottom of the ladder and playing finals in a 16 round season. Its a DUMB suggestion and only weakens Country Div further.

IMO it's either an even and fair 10 team Central Div or like others have suggested 'promote everyone to Central Div for 2015'. 18 clubs - 17 rounds - play everyone once and that then determines the divisions for 2016. Yes there will be byes in the junior games but for one season and for the future of the HFL this makes the most sense. Unfortunately Sedan play C grade (maybe with 2 teams) as they don't fill the junior requirement to compete (once again best for the HFL). It'd be nice to see the League grow a pair and make these decisions.

[The Gimp]

What if all clubs nominated to play Country Div next season? Obviously the courts have decided that Echunga can't be removed from Central Div so they would be there playing with themselves (something they've proved they are very good at).

We could have one Country division for 2015.
Every side plays each other once. Top 8 for finals.
Central and Country would then be scrapped being replaced by div 1, 2 and 3.
The final ladder position for A grade (post GF) in season 2015 would determine the division split for 2016 with div 1 to have 8 clubs with the remaining in div 2. To play in either div 1 or 2 in season 2016, the club must have A's, B's, U18 and U15 with U13 optional.
If any club does not fill all 4 grades in 2015 (allowing max 1 forfeit per team during season) they cannot nominate for div 1 or 2 in 2016. There will be a div 3 for the clubs that cannot fill all 4 grades or any club that enters an extra team (C grade).
To enter div 2 from div 3, you must be able to prove that you will have all 4 grades before entry will be accepted.
Promotion/relegation will based on A grade results with the premier in div 2 having first option, then the other grand finalist having option if the premier declines.

For any club that then wants to enter either div 1 or 2 for season 2016 that didn't play in the "2015 Country Div grading season", a fee of $60k would apply.

I really hope you're taking the P155 here.

First and last sentences might be slightly tounge-in-cheek...
The rest is fair dinkum.

[rock]

I think it is the only way forward cracka.

A super league for 2015 which becomes the grading for the 2016 division structure. It is the only sensible solution that gives EVERYONE in the HFL a fair chance.

What happens if Nairne win the right and want to go to Central Div in 2016? With a "one off" 11 team Central Div in 2015, this will require 2 clubs to be relegated in 2016.

It will only prolong the mess yet again

I hear 12 teams is now on the table for this season. (Nairne up also with meetings to discuss organised)

This will work OK - but relegation needs to be scrapped along with uneven apps points allocation. (you want to play Central then there should be no barrier - if you can field all 4 sides)

Must be a level playing field from now on.

YOU MAY AS WELL DIG A GRAVE FOR COUNTRY DIVISION. It's not on the table.

[The Gimp]

I think it is the only way forward cracka.

A super league for 2015 which becomes the grading for the 2016 division structure. It is the only sensible solution that gives EVERYONE in the HFL a fair chance.

What happens if Nairne win the right and want to go to Central Div in 2016? With a "one off" 11 team Central Div in 2015, this will require 2 clubs to be relegated in 2016.

It will only prolong the mess yet again

I hear 12 teams is now on the table for this season. (Nairne up also with meetings to discuss organised)

This will work OK - but relegation needs to be scrapped along with uneven apps points allocation. (you want to play Central then there should be no barrier - if you can field all 4 sides)

Must be a level playing field from now on.

YOU MAY AS WELL DIG A GRAVE FOR COUNTRY DIVISION. It's not on the table.

Yep, exactly. But let's be honest, Legs Man cares about one thing only and that's Echunga. If this wasn't true, then he would know that by removing 2 strong clubs from Country div will all but ruin that div.

I've raised it before but why do so many clubs want to leave div 2? It's mainly because of the junior draw and the kids are losing development from it.
If the league can fix this problem, there is much more chance of div 2 being a great comp again with full (smaller) clubs playing against other full (smaller) clubs and having a good even draw throughout all 4 grades.
If you don't have 4 grades, then sorry but you're dragging the div down and you should be in a separate div.

Your herd is only as strong as your weakest member.

[Legs Man]

I think it is the only way forward cracka.

A super league for 2015 which becomes the grading for the 2016 division structure. It is the only sensible solution that gives EVERYONE in the HFL a fair chance.

What happens if Nairne win the right and want to go to Central Div in 2016? With a "one off" 11 team Central Div in 2015, this will require 2 clubs to be relegated in 2016.

It will only prolong the mess yet again

I hear 12 teams is now on the table for this season. (Nairne up also with meetings to discuss organised)

This will work OK - but relegation needs to be scrapped along with uneven apps points allocation. (you want to play Central then there should be no barrier - if you can field all 4 sides)

Must be a level playing field from now on.

YOU MAY AS WELL DIG A GRAVE FOR COUNTRY DIVISION. It's not on the table.

Time will tell - I have it on good authority.

Have a read of my post at 9:40am today - as this is my suggestion for the best outcome for all within hills footy (and try and be open minded please )

And remember this is simply a suggestion!

[Armytank]

I personally think everyone needs to take a breath and have a good hard think about what has gone on over the last couple of months, because quite frankly the attitudes and opinions being expressed are the very reason we are in this mess, again.

No matter what you think about the way that Echunga went about putting their A grade side together, how much and what money was involved or their approach to their junior sides and their B grade, the fact is that Echunga were well within their rights to challenge the decision made by the 16 clubs that voted for their relegation.

I am personally disappointed that there was such ignorance and arrogance shown by the 16 clubs that proper thought and understanding was not applied before casting their vote.

If my club were in Echunga's position I would hope that they would take the decision to court too, and I feel safe to assume that everyone would feel the same regarding their own club in the same circumstance.

The fact is that Echunga expected the by-laws to be administered as they are written. If they are written in such a way that they are open to interpretation then that is the fault of the by-law and those who wrote it, not the interpreter. Quite frankly this is no different to John Bertand's "winged keel" in the 83 America's Cup.

The 19 clubs of the HFL now (as they always have) have an opportunity to decide the future structure of their league.

After the recent court decision Echunga are required to participate in the premier division of the HFL. This is obvioulsy not negotiable.

We have 3 solutions for 2015:

1) a 10 team competition in Central/Div 1. - Extrapolating the court decision that Echunga have earnt the right to participate in the highest division of the HFL by appliying and adhering to the by-laws of the HFL, the decision implies that under the very same by-laws Bridgewater are required to be relegated.

2) an 11 team competition in Central/Div 1. - This requires the by-laws being suspended for 2015 but allows Bridgewater to remain in Div 1. This would raise tricky questions for 2016 though, regarding promotion and relegation. We need to be very careful regarding this decision, and a lot more thought needs to be put into this than there currently is, so that NO club in the HFL is disadvantaged.

3) an 18 team superleague (assuming Milang choose to remain a C grade only). - This gives the league a clean slate and a chance to "grade" clubs for 2016. This gives ALL clubs a fair and even chance to position themselves for 2016.

I personally think that the 18 team superleague for 2015 only, is the best possible solution here, for all clubs.

[Amateur Footy]

Do you think Country Div clubs would commit to a super league knowing they will have no hope of finals in 2015 and some would be on the end of big drubbings? What would it matter if it was 10 in Central and bottom two drop out in 2016 to form a new Div 2 with top 6 from Country that all have 4 teams as minimum? Would need to decide if it was based on As or whole club still.

[rock]

Do you think Country Div clubs would commit to a super league knowing they will have no hope of finals in 2015 and some would be on the end of big drubbings? What would it matter if it was 10 in Central and bottom two drop out in 2016 to form a new Div 2 with top 6 from Country that all have 4 teams as minimum? Would need to decide if it was based on As or whole club still.

Would have to be based on whole club still AF otherwise purchasing $$$ a flag will become even greater and the big money clubs will swallow up the rest of the competition. If there was a super league in 2015 I would think some Country Div clubs would fancy themselves for finals if it was a final 8 system (Nairne and Kersbrook). There would also be a few floggings but it would be better for the future of the HFL from 2016 and beyond. The HFL needs to use 2015 to prepare for changes in 2016... not sure they have the aggots to pull this off though.

[cracka]

By the look of all the differing opinions on here there is going to be plenty not happy no matter which way the HFL go, regardless of how big OUR aggots grow. Someone will always complain, I would put my house on that.