Bali Nine - is the death penalty justice?

[mighty_tiger_79]

I find it curious that the media and apparent government lobbying has started with the impending date with the firing squad...

[Dutchy]

Any idea what the penalty would be if they got caught in Australia? Im thinking max 10 years in the clink here...

[dedja]

probably a whipping with some limp lettuce leaves ...

Interesting the differences with this case and the Barlow/Chambers one a few years ago as far as I can remember.

[Booney]

probably a whipping with some limp lettuce leaves ...

Interesting the differences with this case and the Barlow/Chambers one a few years ago as far as I can remember.

One, they were in Malaysia, not Thailand.

They had just 141g of heroin on them, but the law at the time had been "toughened" to include any possession over 15g was punishable by death. 15g!!

They also had a long history of smuggling ( Chambers his Mrs once bribed their way out of a conviction in Singapore ) and later, near Penong, Chambers high as a kite crashed the car they were in, his girlfriend died several days into a coma.

The prison where they were housed in Penang was built to hold something like 300 people, when they were there it was over 2000!! They spent 22 hours a day locked in a tiny cell with several other people, it was almost standing room only and they slept in shifts. There was no room for them to all lay down.

I researched this in my year 11 elective, why, I don't know, but I must have had a real fascination with the story as I was only just turning 11 when it happened and I did the research on it some 6 years later.

One other thing I remember was ( I think ) Chambers mother made this crazy potion up to give her son so he could, in essence, euthanise himself to avoid being hanged. It was tablets, scotch, gin and vodka or something. She smuggled it in to him in a bag on "her person" but never gave it to him as she thought there may have still been hope he would be pardoned. He was dead 48 hours later.

[Wedgie]

Are these 2 the only ones on Death Row? What happened to the others of the Bali 9?

I don't support the death penalty, I believe everyone deserves a second chance, however it is hard to have sympathy for what they did.

I don't sympathise with them.

But to be shot at the ages of 31 & 33 is a waste of life.

There is a reason Australia doesn't have capital punishment.

It's what makes us better humans.

A few of you guys need more empathy...

What if your son/daughter/family member/friend died from the drug they tried to import into the country? I reckon you would change your tune.

I wouldn't, I'd blame myself for being a bad parent/family member/friend.

[MW]

Not as simple as that (not that I have any experience in any of this)
My point is, I do not have one ounce of sympathy for these two about to be shot...

[woodublieve12]

Not as simple as that (not that I have any experience in any of this)
My point is, I do not have one ounce of sympathy for these two about to be shot...

the supplier needs a customer and the customer choose to buy the product...

*i certainly do not condone drug trafficing..

[MW]

At the end of the day, I have no sympathy for drug mules, dealers, growers, manufacturers and takers...

[stan]

Are these 2 the only ones on Death Row? What happened to the others of the Bali 9?

I don't support the death penalty, I believe everyone deserves a second chance, however it is hard to have sympathy for what they did.

I don't sympathise with them.

But to be shot at the ages of 31 & 33 is a waste of life.

There is a reason Australia doesn't have capital punishment.

It's what makes us better humans.

A few of you guys need more empathy...

What if your son/daughter/family member/friend died from the drug they tried to import into the country? I reckon you would change your tune.

I wouldn't, I'd blame myself for being a bad parent/family member/friend.

I find it hard to feel sympathy for someone who went and brought a dtug and took it amd had ill effects from it.

As Wedgie said I would be more concerned that I wasnt able to help them rather then the issue of them taking bad drugs.

What Im saying is that drug takers arrw not victims.

[White Line Fever]

http://www.news.com.au/world/footage-aired-on-indonesian-tv-showing-execution-process/story-fndir2ev-1227225733478

Read this.

It is horrifying.

Rehabilitation has worked.

Let them live their lives in prison.

[woodublieve12]

i dont believe it is no. Stupid. The fact of the matter is that if they were not smuggling drugs into this country then they wouldnt be in the situation

But it is that countries rules where you can get away with murder basically yet be sentenced to death for drugs. But we cant control what goes on in that country. They knew the rules before going there, so it is their fault also.

Had this same post on FB pages for newspapers and people saying its stupid yes for not getting worse treatment for murder or the likes, but it is this countries rules and if you set foot on their land you need to abide by them.

Just to clear something up for you bully, they weren't smuggling drugs into Indonesia

[fisho mcspaz]

Let's not forget that these men, and other drug couriers, play the most minor of roles in the illicit drug trade - but they are also the ones punished most severely. The people who employ them, the people who manufacture the drugs, and most vitally, the people who operate international businesses to supply drugs across the globe - are generally hand in glove with powerful political and business figures, and are protected by their status, wealth and power. Regardless of what happens to their hired drug couriers, these people are rarely, if ever, prosecuted.

Recently, I signed a petition that pleaded for clemency for Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran. A friend informed me that I was a bleeding heart, that these men ‘knew the rules’ and that all the petitions in the world wouldn’t change the Indonesian government’s stance. And his views are typical of many. They centre around the inarguable fact that these men broke a law and therefore they must suffer the consequences, which in the case of Chan and Sukumaran is death by firing squad. I want to reiterate here: no one is arguing that they broke the law. But a law that authorises the killing of people after years on death row, people who have been rehabilitated, who have become productive members of society, and who have worked hard to improve the lives of others – that is a bad law, and it SHOULD be challenged. You gain nothing from remaining silent.

I feel so strongly about this because while I don’t know what other prisoners are like in there, I think that these two Australians at least have rehabilitated themselves and are continuing to do so, and they are productive members of society. They are doing good things for others, despite being on death row the whole time. From what I’ve seen of jail in Australia, jail facilities as rehabilitation centres don’t f***ing work. I don’t think too many people get rehabilitated in prison; I think it makes them harder. So whatever the hell’s happening over in Indonesia, here at least are two prisoners that are proof of successful rehabilitation. Why on earth would you kill them now? Not only is it cruel to take their lives after leaving them in jail for ten years with the threat of execution hanging over their heads, but killing them now is a positive disincentive to rehabilitation. If you’re going to die anyway, why should you even bother with making things better for yourself and others? What is your humanity worth when all roads lead to the executioner just the same? A person can only be killed once.

Anyway, I said as much to a mate and he said 'I agree with you, kill them straight away, don't leave them on death row for years.' That is not what I meant - I don't support capital punishment under any circumstances. I just find it even more horrific to prolong people's existence on death row. Capital punishment, if the sentence is carried out immediately, is barbaric enough. I have never found any argument convincing me that humans have the right to take another person's life against their will, nor to legalise such murder and call it justice. Capital punishment, if the sentence is delayed, is a human rights crime. It is the cruelest thing. And I do take into account what people are saying regarding the lives saved because that 8kg of heroin never made it to Aussie shores. I call bulls**t. As someone who has been addicted to drugs in the past (admittedly not heroin, but I was dependent on prescription opiates for over a year), I can say that no one held a gun to my head to take them. A closer comparison would be alcohol, I suppose, and the peer pressure involved there. I don't drink any more and when I refuse alcohol at a gathering, people look at me like I've contracted ebola and joined ISIS, and sometimes there are those who will argue with me or encourage me to drink anyway. It's still my decision whether I do or not. I don't blame drug couriers or drug dealers for drug-related deaths. To me it makes more sense to blame the governments that refuse to decriminalise drugs. If drugs were legal, I don't doubt that people would still take them, but if drug use was considered as a social issue rather than as a criminal one, there would be a greater focus on understanding the causes of drug use (poverty, for one), and on providing education and information both to make drug use a safer practice and to encourage alternatives. The majority of people across the world either use or have used drugs – executing people or locking them up for their lifetimes won’t change that fact.

[woodublieve12]

one of the bali bombers was just released...

So drug smuggling is worse then blowing people up???

[Footy Chick]

They probably did it to piss Tony off.

[dedja]

... Anyway, I said as much to a mate and he said 'I agree with you, kill them straight away, don't leave them on death row for years.' That is not what I meant - I don't support capital punishment under any circumstances ...

I like to think that I share that view.

What if the subject is someone like Martin Bryant? Should he be afforded life behind bars or ... ? Allegedly Bryant has attempted suicide many times since that fateful day. Perhaps society should just let nature take it's course?

Maybe it's not so black and white.

[fisho mcspaz]

... Anyway, I said as much to a mate and he said 'I agree with you, kill them straight away, don't leave them on death row for years.' That is not what I meant - I don't support capital punishment under any circumstances ...

I like to think that I share that view.

What if the subject is someone like Martin Bryant? Should he be afforded life behind bars or ... ? Allegedly Bryant has attempted suicide many times since that fateful day. Perhaps society should just let nature take it's course?

Maybe it's not so black and white.

It's definitely not black and white. I know my thoughts on it are all over the shop. Although I don't believe in capital punishment, I'd be lying if I said there weren't some people I hope get murdered in jail. Brett Cowan, for one. A mate said to me 'What would you do if someone killed one of your kids, or molested them? You'd want them hanged, wouldn't you?' I said no, I wouldn't want that; I'd want to have a shot at them myself. Whether I would actually do anything in that situation, I don't know. When I think like this I try and remind myself of the belief I hold at other times - that no one has the right to take another person's life against their will - but I'm not rock-solid in my convictions at all; I have a lot of doubts.

And yeah, someone like Martin Bryant, I honestly think he'd be better off dead, but I don't think thoughts like mine belong in law - it has to be impartial. (Also, this is awful, but from a pragmatic point of view - how much s*** would have gone down if Australia did have the death penalty and did have him killed for Port Arthur? With his low IQ and mental illness, it would have set a terrible precedent, and probably contravened half a hundred human rights laws.) About just letting him commit suicide - again, I don't know. I think it'd be a pretty cheap and easy way to solve the problem of Martin Bryant, but is it our right, or his, to let him make that choice? He gave up his rights when he murdered 35 people. At the same time, how responsible is he for his actions right now? ...F***. I was about to write 'If he is mentally ill to the extent that he cannot be considered responsible for his actions, then let him die', but now I'm thinking, if he is insane, would he still want to commit suicide if he were in his right mind? This is opening up a real can of worms. I'm going to say no. No, don't let him kill himself, insane or not. If he's insane, he doesn't fully understand the consequences of what he's doing, so he shouldn't be allowed to do it. If he is sane, he is taking the easy way out of his multiple life sentences, so he shouldn't be allowed to do it. Even if the taxpayers are paying x-thousands of dollars to keep him housed and fed, so what. That's the price we pay for having laws where we don't execute people. I think the alternative would be much worse.

(Cheers dedja for making me use my brain this morning! )

[MatteeG]

Nice blurb Fisho- you make some good points.

My question is- would they rehabilitate themselves if they knew they were going to get out in say 5 years?

I feel part (if not all) of their want to rehabilitate and do good for others stems from the knowledge that their time here may be limited.

[MW]

Reading this has made me insane!

[Booney]

Nice blurb Fisho- you make some good points.

My question is- would they rehabilitate themselves if they knew they were going to get out in say 5 years?

I feel part (if not all) of their want to rehabilitate and do good for others stems from the knowledge that their time here may be limited.

Good question.

[toot toot]

IMO, the only reason they have become such angels is because it would help in trying to convince the Indonesian's not kill them (their lawyers probably advise them to do it as well, to help their case).

If they were jailed in Australia they would be out already and probably be back involved in the drug game.