Mass debate with Morell

[jo172]

And if the Clubs don't take that option they should really be advising blokes, particularly blokes who have a more "physical" job to take out their own income protection insurance.

Like all insurance it's costly, more costly not to have it though.

[Footy Chick]

The ones with the more physical jobs or self employed should have their own income protection anyway.

[Look Good In Leather]

The ones with the more physical jobs or self employed should have their own income protection anyway.

Exactly, why should it be the club's responsibility? The players choose to play a collision sport.
Again, we have bred society to expect someone else to take responsibility

[Q.]

The ones with the more physical jobs or self employed should have their own income protection anyway.

Exactly, why should it be the club's responsibility? The players choose to play a collision sport.
Again, we have bred society to expect someone else to take responsibility

It's not necessarily a club's responsibility, but it would nevertheless be an action that fosters a positive environment. I will be pushing our club to find the money to make the upgrade next year.

[morell]

Whoever thought of the insurance business model and managed to convince people of the time that it made sense, must have been some kind of magician - "hey, give me money all the time, and I might give you some back in an emergency, if I decide to, provided you have given me more money over the course of our agreement than what I might be giving you back". It's a complete rort and I personally avoid any insurance unless I am forced to by the government.

My personal misgivings notwithstanding, I think protecting blokes income if they choose to play football will be the new competitive paradigm for Clubs moving forward. It might not be who is closer, or who is more chance of a flag, it will be, who has the better coverage on their insurance plan - much like it is for employers in the US.

[Q.]

I have income insurance and it's looking like I'll get an 8 week payout for breaking my ankle.

On top of that, I didn't pay a cent to have an ankle reconstruction and arthroscopy thanks to having health insurance.

So yeah, I'm kinda thankful I have both of them.

[BFG]

I have income insurance and it's looking like I'll get an 8 week payout for breaking my ankle.

On top of that, I didn't pay a cent to have an ankle reconstruction and arthroscopy thanks to having health insurance.

So yeah, I'm kinda thankful I have both of them.

Got a free shoulder reconstruction from private health insurance so i'll always be thankful for that. Had a very attractive nurse as well, no spongebath though

[Footy Chick]

Whoever thought of the insurance business model and managed to convince people of the time that it made sense, must have been some kind of magician - "hey, give me money all the time, and I might give you some back in an emergency, if I decide to, provided you have given me more money over the course of our agreement than what I might be giving you back". It's a complete rort and I personally avoid any insurance unless I am forced to by the government.

My personal misgivings notwithstanding, I think protecting blokes income if they choose to play football will be the new competitive paradigm for Clubs moving forward. It might not be who is closer, or who is more chance of a flag, it will be, who has the better coverage on their insurance plan - much like it is for employers in the US.

Whatever drugs you're on today Morell, get off 'em, they're bad. Mmmmkay?

Please don't be the first one with your hand out for support in the event that your house burns down then.

Or god forbid the poor person who who run over in your car, or the building you crash into, because you refuse to insure your car.

The cost to replace a stobie pole is $30k plus - that's a big bill for you to pay because you think insurance is a rort.

On the other hand, I do think health insurance is a rort. I've had 3 sinus ops, all in private hospitals which i've paid for out of pocket and the total cost is still less than what I would've paid for private health over the last 9 years.

[morell]

I love people with that attitude: "but insurance is great, I don't pay a cent for my <insert medical service>". Yes. You do. You pay a monthly fee. A monthly fee which would be contractually obligated to add up to MORE than the cost of the services you used.

Take all your insurance costs, put them into an untouchable bank account for a couple of years, apply interest. Profit.

But, if a club can incur those insurance costs on your behalf*, then yeah, I think that's an attractive proposition for players.


* or maybe if the club was smart, put those insurance costs into an interest bearing account and us that instead.

[BFG]

I love people with that attitude: "but insurance is great, I don't pay a cent for my <insert medical service>". Yes. You do. You pay a monthly fee. A monthly fee which would be contractually obligated to add up to MORE than the cost of the services you used.

Take all your insurance costs, put them into an untouchable bank account for a couple of years, apply interest. Profit.

But, if a club can incur those insurance costs on your behalf*, then yeah, I think that's an attractive proposition for players.


* or maybe if the club was smart, put those insurance costs into an interest bearing account and us that instead.

correct, It's not free but I would much rather pay 50 bucks a fortnight for the last 3 years than pay the 4,000 or so in one whack that it wouldve cost me to pay for the surgery myself. Plus all the physio afterwards that i got for 10 a visit compared to the 50-60 it usually is. But each to their own i spose.

[morell]

Whoever thought of the insurance business model and managed to convince people of the time that it made sense, must have been some kind of magician - "hey, give me money all the time, and I might give you some back in an emergency, if I decide to, provided you have given me more money over the course of our agreement than what I might be giving you back". It's a complete rort and I personally avoid any insurance unless I am forced to by the government.

My personal misgivings notwithstanding, I think protecting blokes income if they choose to play football will be the new competitive paradigm for Clubs moving forward. It might not be who is closer, or who is more chance of a flag, it will be, who has the better coverage on their insurance plan - much like it is for employers in the US.

Whatever drugs you're on today Morell, get off 'em, they're bad. Mmmmkay?

Please don't be the first one with your hand out for support in the event that your house burns down then.

Or god forbid the poor person who who run over in your car, or the building you crash into, because you refuse to insure your car.

The cost to replace a stobie pole is $30k plus - that's a big bill for you to pay because you think insurance is a rort.

Insurance is mathematically and contractually designed to be more rewarding for the insurer. Otherise insurance companies wouldn't exist! They would be charities instead.

Its not hard....

add up your monthly insurance payments over your lifetime, see if they are larger or smaller than the savings you have made in claims, or would ever likely be made in claims. They prey on people like you, worrying about the worst case scenario, what they don't tell you is if you haven't already covered their costs in triplicate, they won't give you any money in that worst case scenario anyway.

It's a complete rort, you are economically much, much better off using your insurance money and putting it in an interest bearing bank account and only using that money for emergencies,..

Problem is people don't know how to do that anymore, we spend what we earn. We want everything now so we see it as better to spend a small amount now, and get "protected" just in case, rather than saving more, and protecting yourself.

[Q.]

Except it would take me ten years to save up what my income protection payout will be. What if I get injured after one year?

Same applies to the health insurance.

I suppose if you never have to make a claim then yes, you would be better off investing, but how do you know if and when you'll have to make a claim?

[morell]

I love people with that attitude: "but insurance is great, I don't pay a cent for my <insert medical service>". Yes. You do. You pay a monthly fee. A monthly fee which would be contractually obligated to add up to MORE than the cost of the services you used.

Take all your insurance costs, put them into an untouchable bank account for a couple of years, apply interest. Profit.

But, if a club can incur those insurance costs on your behalf*, then yeah, I think that's an attractive proposition for players.


* or maybe if the club was smart, put those insurance costs into an interest bearing account and us that instead.

correct, It's not free but I would much rather pay 50 bucks a fortnight for the last 3 years than pay the 4,000 or so in one whack that it wouldve cost me to pay for the surgery myself. Plus all the physio afterwards that i got for 10 a visit compared to the 50-60 it usually is. But each to their own i spose.

I had private health, I was paying $80/month. I did my knee. Had surgery. Had a "gap" of $1500. I added up the amount I had paid over the previous 4.5 years plus the gap and I would have been hundreds of dollars better off if I had of just put the money aside into an interest bearing account. As in, it wasn't even close!

And I was lucky, the surgeon had to put in the right medical "code" for me to be able to claim back that much. I was also lucky that my contract was 4.5 years in, a bit earlier and I wouldn't have been able to claim at all.

It's a rort. Always has been always will be, but if ya'll want to believe the con job you've been given, be my guest.

[Q.]

Ouch. Should've shopped around for better insurance

[morell]

Except it would take me ten years to save up what my income protection payout will be. What if I get injured after one year?

You must have a good contract then, if they've covered you without significant previous investment. Most contracts have no claim periods and/or minimum payment amounts. Someone, somewhere, is paying for your payout though, yeah?

Same applies to the health insurance.

I suppose if you never have to make a claim then yes, you would be better off investing, but how do you know if and when you'll have to make a claim?

No, even if you do claim, you're still better off. The risk is if you don't have enough in savings to cover your costs. But most of the insurance contracts I look at, this is the argument they would use to avoid a payout anyway.

It really is just pretty easy common sense - insurance companies are driven by profit, ergo it is in their best interest to ensure the money that comes in their door, exceeds the money going out. The difference in balance for the industry to be one of the most profitable in the world is paid for by people that can't save or are overly risk averse.

[morell]

Ouch. Should've shopped around for better insurance

This was a very reputable company and a very standard insurance contract.

It would be an exceedingly common story and it is how they make money.

[morell]

Insurers' business model
Underwriting and investing
The business model is to collect more in premium and investment income than is paid out in losses, and to also offer a competitive price which consumers will accept. Profit can be reduced to a simple equation:

Profit = earned premium + investment income – incurred loss – underwriting expenses.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insurance

Simple.

It gets trickier when:

The most complicated aspect of the insurance business is the actuarial science of ratemaking (price-setting) of policies, which uses statistics and probability to approximate the rate of future claims based on a given risk. After producing rates, the insurer will use discretion to reject or accept risks through the underwriting process.

[Q.]

Your points are valid to the population as a whole (in both my claims I fully expected to be shafted btw), but for footballers who are at higher risk of injury and lost income, the ledger may be a little more squarer.

[Footy Chick]

Yes, it's come to this....

Keep your crap off my division threads

Dribble away my friend!

Rules: and keep it SAAFL related please

[Lightning McQueen]

Yes, it's come to this....

Keep your crap off my division threads

Dribble away my friend!

Should've named it "end to end".