Re: Points System Is Crucifying Country Footy

Talk on any country footy league or club from the SA Country area

Re: Points System Is Crucifying Country Footy

Postby Dogwatcher » Thu Jul 02, 2015 12:01 pm

Is that a negative? You should be paying locals before travellers, anyway.
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Re: Points System Is Crucifying Country Footy

Postby The Bedge » Thu Jul 02, 2015 12:03 pm

Dogwatcher wrote:Is that a negative? You should be paying locals before travellers, anyway.

I think the issue is not the paying of locals - its the amount that's required to be paid to keep them.
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Re: Re: Points System Is Crucifying Country Footy

Postby Monopoly Man » Thu Jul 02, 2015 12:05 pm

Isn't this whole campaign about protecting the SAAFL and SANFL? They are sick of losing players to country leagues for dollars.
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Re: Points System Is Crucifying Country Footy

Postby Mr Beefy » Thu Jul 02, 2015 12:09 pm

cracka wrote:
qwerty wrote:
cracka wrote:
running defender wrote:Salary cap won't work , how are you going to stop the wheat farmer or the potato grower from employing a bloke for 2 days and giving him $600 . The cfl should actually get of there butt ,
go and watch a few games and get a feel of what's going on out there.
Apps system only rewards mediocrity why should clubs that win Gf or play finals get penalised?
Give every club the same amount of points or get rid of it.

Salary cap can work if players are made to sign stat decs on what & how they're paid.
What a load of crap APPS rewards mediocrity, it stops clubs buying flags year after year.


Makes you wonder then how all these leagues/clubs survived in some cases for over 100 years, thank god for the points system the saviour of local footy :roll:

Oh yeah, I forgot about all the leagues/clubs that have been paying massive amounts of dollars* since the 1920's, silly me. :roll:

*Pounds
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Re: Points System Is Crucifying Country Footy

Postby Jim05 » Thu Jul 02, 2015 12:13 pm

Monopoly Man wrote:Isn't this whole campaign about protecting the SAAFL and SANFL? They are sick of losing players to country leagues for dollars.

Not sure the country leagues give a damn about the SAAFL, I know most people in the Barossa dont. Maybe the SAAFL need to catch up and charge entry fees.
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Re: Re: Points System Is Crucifying Country Footy

Postby The Bedge » Thu Jul 02, 2015 12:14 pm

Monopoly Man wrote:Isn't this whole campaign about protecting the SAAFL and SANFL? They are sick of losing players to country leagues for dollars.

Yeah but now I think it's worse because SAAFL are losing mediocre players chasing $$ from all sorts of divisions.
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Re: Re: Points System Is Crucifying Country Footy

Postby cracka » Thu Jul 02, 2015 1:26 pm

What year did the APPS 1st come in?
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Re: Points System Is Crucifying Country Footy

Postby Look Good In Leather » Thu Jul 02, 2015 2:47 pm

LaughingKookaburra wrote:Watched and played country Victorian footy. It's a great standard but you can't justify clubs paying 150k upwards a year on a handful of players a year no matter what context you put it in.


Paddy Ryder is on $750k a year on his own.
What context is that?
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Re: Re: Points System Is Crucifying Country Footy

Postby Look Good In Leather » Thu Jul 02, 2015 3:05 pm

I love the arguments that payments are out of control and the like. Apparently players are not worth what they are getting.

Clubs will only pay what they are prepared to, players will get paid what they are worth (simple economics that something is worth what someone is willing to pay).

My biggest issue is with the hypocritical idiots who suggest that someone should not be allowed to gain a little bit of extra income by risking their body once a week over 18-20 weeks of a year. I am sure that in their everyday job they do not offer to take a pay cut because there is someone out there in the world who does a similar job for less pay, nor forgoing earning a bit extra by getting a second job, sitting on a Board, selling things on eBay, investing, etc. I know of people who have made playing and coaching country football their primary job, how dare someone suggest that they should not be allowed to do that - if someone is willing to pay them, good luck to them.

It is all designed to protect two things; the AFL Reserves competition, a league that has no soul, no relevance and minimal future; and the Channel 9 Adelaide Football League, the behemoth league that is the result of the centralisation of metropolitan football from the 70s to the 90s, that has abandoned it's amateur principles, but wants to impose them on the rest of the state.

Change the SANFL to AFL South Australia as that is what it now represents; split up the SAAFL to re-establish district leagues with a central Amateur competition based around the Old Scholars cartel; reform the Country Football Championships into a divisional inter-league carnival rather than meaningless zones; and remove unnecessary regulatory policies (APPS, Salary Cap, Age Restrictions etc) from metropolitan and country clubs to allow them to just play football and represent their communities. Football would be a lot healthier in this state as a result.

By the way, I nominate this discussion started by Bag & Sledge for Thread of the Year.
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Re: Re: Points System Is Crucifying Country Footy

Postby cracka » Thu Jul 02, 2015 4:07 pm

Look Good In Leather wrote:I love the arguments that payments are out of control and the like. Apparently players are not worth what they are getting.

Clubs will only pay what they are prepared to, players will get paid what they are worth (simple economics that something is worth what someone is willing to pay).

My biggest issue is with the hypocritical idiots who suggest that someone should not be allowed to gain a little bit of extra income by risking their body once a week over 18-20 weeks of a year. I am sure that in their everyday job they do not offer to take a pay cut because there is someone out there in the world who does a similar job for less pay, nor forgoing earning a bit extra by getting a second job, sitting on a Board, selling things on eBay, investing, etc. I know of people who have made playing and coaching country football their primary job, how dare someone suggest that they should not be allowed to do that - if someone is willing to pay them, good luck to them.

It is all designed to protect two things; the AFL Reserves competition, a league that has no soul, no relevance and minimal future; and the Channel 9 Adelaide Football League, the behemoth league that is the result of the centralisation of metropolitan football from the 70s to the 90s, that has abandoned it's amateur principles, but wants to impose them on the rest of the state.

Change the SANFL to AFL South Australia as that is what it now represents; split up the SAAFL to re-establish district leagues with a central Amateur competition based around the Old Scholars cartel; reform the Country Football Championships into a divisional inter-league carnival rather than meaningless zones; and remove unnecessary regulatory policies (APPS, Salary Cap, Age Restrictions etc) from metropolitan and country clubs to allow them to just play football and represent their communities. Football would be a lot healthier in this state as a result.

By the way, I nominate this discussion started by Bag & Sledge for Thread of the Year.

Guaranteed :roll:
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Re: Points System Is Crucifying Country Footy

Postby batmanbegins » Thu Jul 02, 2015 4:19 pm

Look Good In Leather wrote:I love the arguments that payments are out of control and the like. Apparently players are not worth what they are getting.

Clubs will only pay what they are prepared to, players will get paid what they are worth (simple economics that something is worth what someone is willing to pay).

My biggest issue is with the hypocritical idiots who suggest that someone should not be allowed to gain a little bit of extra income by risking their body once a week over 18-20 weeks of a year. I am sure that in their everyday job they do not offer to take a pay cut because there is someone out there in the world who does a similar job for less pay, nor forgoing earning a bit extra by getting a second job, sitting on a Board, selling things on eBay, investing, etc. I know of people who have made playing and coaching country football their primary job, how dare someone suggest that they should not be allowed to do that - if someone is willing to pay them, good luck to them.

It is all designed to protect two things; the AFL Reserves competition, a league that has no soul, no relevance and minimal future; and the Channel 9 Adelaide Football League, the behemoth league that is the result of the centralisation of metropolitan football from the 70s to the 90s, that has abandoned it's amateur principles, but wants to impose them on the rest of the state.

Change the SANFL to AFL South Australia as that is what it now represents; split up the SAAFL to re-establish district leagues with a central Amateur competition based around the Old Scholars cartel; reform the Country Football Championships into a divisional inter-league carnival rather than meaningless zones; and remove unnecessary regulatory policies (APPS, Salary Cap, Age Restrictions etc) from metropolitan and country clubs to allow them to just play football and represent their communities. Football would be a lot healthier in this state as a result.

By the way, I nominate this discussion started by Bag & Sledge for Thread of the Year.


I don't get how footy is in a bad way, especially country footy appears to be in a really good way. Looks at the Majority of Country comps and they are very even, The points system has appeared to help that and rewards the clubs that actually hold on to recruits which is what should be the aim. Cracka may know better then me but Hills Central Div is as even as it has ever been this year with all teams being hugely competitive as shown by the weekend. Great Southern league also appears to be incredibly competitive with 8 or 9 teams able to make the finals. I have no real issue with the point system and I believe country footy has never been this even.
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Re: Re: Points System Is Crucifying Country Footy

Postby cracka » Thu Jul 02, 2015 4:22 pm

I've had an idea, was going to be a sarcastic one but the more I think about it, it could be a goer. How about we get a Country Super League up & running, just A & B grades with no salary cap or APPS restrictions. Clubs who can afford it & want in can join & all other country leagues remain with APPS & salary cap restrictions to keep costs down for clubs who can't afford it. Maybe???
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Re: Points System Is Crucifying Country Footy

Postby cracka » Thu Jul 02, 2015 4:25 pm

batmanbegins wrote:
Look Good In Leather wrote:I love the arguments that payments are out of control and the like. Apparently players are not worth what they are getting.

Clubs will only pay what they are prepared to, players will get paid what they are worth (simple economics that something is worth what someone is willing to pay).

My biggest issue is with the hypocritical idiots who suggest that someone should not be allowed to gain a little bit of extra income by risking their body once a week over 18-20 weeks of a year. I am sure that in their everyday job they do not offer to take a pay cut because there is someone out there in the world who does a similar job for less pay, nor forgoing earning a bit extra by getting a second job, sitting on a Board, selling things on eBay, investing, etc. I know of people who have made playing and coaching country football their primary job, how dare someone suggest that they should not be allowed to do that - if someone is willing to pay them, good luck to them.

It is all designed to protect two things; the AFL Reserves competition, a league that has no soul, no relevance and minimal future; and the Channel 9 Adelaide Football League, the behemoth league that is the result of the centralisation of metropolitan football from the 70s to the 90s, that has abandoned it's amateur principles, but wants to impose them on the rest of the state.

Change the SANFL to AFL South Australia as that is what it now represents; split up the SAAFL to re-establish district leagues with a central Amateur competition based around the Old Scholars cartel; reform the Country Football Championships into a divisional inter-league carnival rather than meaningless zones; and remove unnecessary regulatory policies (APPS, Salary Cap, Age Restrictions etc) from metropolitan and country clubs to allow them to just play football and represent their communities. Football would be a lot healthier in this state as a result.

By the way, I nominate this discussion started by Bag & Sledge for Thread of the Year.


I don't get how footy is in a bad way, especially country footy appears to be in a really good way. Looks at the Majority of Country comps and they are very even, The points system has appeared to help that and rewards the clubs that actually hold on to recruits which is what should be the aim. Cracka may know better then me but Hills Central Div is as even as it has ever been this year with all teams being hugely competitive as shown by the weekend. Great Southern league also appears to be incredibly competitive with 8 or 9 teams able to make the finals. I have no real issue with the point system and I believe country footy has never been this even.

Unfortunately apart from us but yes a very even comp. Even div 2 hasn't had the floggings of the past, some big margins maybe but a more even comp than previous years.
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Re: Points System Is Crucifying Country Footy

Postby Mr Beefy » Thu Jul 02, 2015 4:36 pm

Jim05 wrote:
Monopoly Man wrote:Isn't this whole campaign about protecting the SAAFL and SANFL? They are sick of losing players to country leagues for dollars.

Not sure the country leagues give a damn about the SAAFL, I know most people in the Barossa dont. Maybe the SAAFL need to catch up and charge entry fees.

Charge entry fees? So SAAFL clubs have more cash, causing country clubs to pay even more for their recruits?
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Re: Re: Points System Is Crucifying Country Footy

Postby Monopoly Man » Thu Jul 02, 2015 4:42 pm

cracka wrote:I've had an idea, was going to be a sarcastic one but the more I think about it, it could be a goer. How about we get a Country Super League up & running, just A & B grades with no salary cap or APPS restrictions. Clubs who can afford it & want in can join & all other country leagues remain with APPS & salary cap restrictions to keep costs down for clubs who can't afford it. Maybe???


Like the idea of this! Wouldn't it be superb to see the big spenders go at it!

Meningie and Mannum vs Padthaway and Keith vs Echunga and Torrens Valley :shock:
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Re: Re: Points System Is Crucifying Country Footy

Postby Rough » Thu Jul 02, 2015 5:37 pm

I see you picked the two RMFL clubs with populations less than 2000 who don't get first dibs from the population of the rural city of Murray Bridge and are actually too far away to get even second dibs. Not sure if your post was supposed to be sarcastic or not but I do agree with anyone who thinks we need to massively tweak the system.
Abolishing the points system and going back to an honesty based salary cap is naive.
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Re: Re: Points System Is Crucifying Country Footy

Postby oldbomber » Thu Jul 02, 2015 6:11 pm

If small country clubs are happy to fundraise and pay out $ to keep their town alive or chase success good on them I say as football is so critically important in these communities.

Points system means well by rewarding loyalty but doesnt reward hard working clubs who achieve success, it penalizes them and has pushed player payments up so needs tweaking.

Salary cap is a joke and I hope struggling clubs in particular just do what they need to do to survive!

SANFL and SAAFL both have massive population bases to choose players from yet are a bunch of sooks. They have no idea what country clubs go through just to put their team on the park and hence keep their communitys alive each year and instead of changing the rules to suit them how about they use their energy fundraising or finding a way to keep their players.
For example 50bux a game for SANFL ressies and expected to train 4 or 5 times a week or 300-800 in some cases for twice a week trg out in country on apprentice wages is not a hard choice.

CFL makes all these rules and I for one wont mind one bit if country leagues tell them where to go. Long live country footy!
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Re: Re: Points System Is Crucifying Country Footy

Postby cracka » Thu Jul 02, 2015 6:26 pm

The problem I see with getting rid of some form of APPS is the big spending clubs will just dominate recruiting & their respective competitions which I think would see some clubs fold by not being able to keep up.
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Re: Points System Is Crucifying Country Footy

Postby cracka » Thu Jul 02, 2015 8:55 pm

Mr Beefy wrote:
Jim05 wrote:
Monopoly Man wrote:Isn't this whole campaign about protecting the SAAFL and SANFL? They are sick of losing players to country leagues for dollars.

Not sure the country leagues give a damn about the SAAFL, I know most people in the Barossa dont. Maybe the SAAFL need to catch up and charge entry fees.

Charge entry fees? So SAAFL clubs have more cash, causing country clubs to pay even more for their recruits?

Or causing country clubs to just use locals & NOT pay anything for recruits, there's a radical idea. Country clubs have been recruiting & overpaying players for 40 years so the blame for rising costs cant all be put on the APPS.
Maybe instead of APPS, clubs should have a local player scheme (LPS) where they have to use 75% (16 of 21 players) local, to qualify a player either has to have played junior footy at a club or live in the area, I know some clubs can offer work & accommodation as part of a package & rort the system.
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Re: Points System Is Crucifying Country Footy

Postby CouchExpert » Thu Jul 02, 2015 9:36 pm

Roo-Agree to disagree.While reducing total points may increase the the player payments of some of the better players overallthey have to decrease.It's a simple case of supply and demand.Reduce the demand ( IE player points per club) & keep the supply (footballers willing to play at country clubs for money) the same & payments have to decrease otherwise guys will miss out on a gig .
It is true that some players may get more money as clubs become more selective with there recruiting but will clubs be willing to invest all there money in just one player?
I used to think that a salary cap was a load of crap,but having seen how much money is being spent in my league now(KNTFL) with a "points" system in place has made me re-think things a bit. One club here was rumoured to be spending close to $20,000 a week last season & yet they were still within their allocated points, and don't tell me that is good for country football.
A salary cap would work if properly implemented with severe penalties such as a 2 year deregistration for players found guilty of salary cap breaches & points sanction for the offending clubs.
The other thing is to just sit back & watch country clubs fold as player payments keep escalating,The choice is ours
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