Re: Points System Is Crucifying Country Footy

Talk on any country footy league or club from the SA Country area

Re: Re: Points System Is Crucifying Country Footy

Postby Rough » Thu Jul 02, 2015 10:01 pm

This is a genuine query without reflecting on any thing that has been posted here on what is an interesting and important topic at the moment but does any one know of a club that has folded because they spent too much money on recruits.
i am not talking about a club that has had to pull their heads in from time to time but clubs where their excessive player payments have caused them to fold. Really interested to know.
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Re: Re: Points System Is Crucifying Country Footy

Postby cracka » Thu Jul 02, 2015 10:09 pm

Rough wrote:This is a genuine query without reflecting on any thing that has been posted here on what is an interesting and important topic at the moment but does any one know of a club that has folded because they spent too much money on recruits.
i am not talking about a club that has had to pull their heads in from time to time but clubs where their excessive player payments have caused them to fold. Really interested to know.

Pretty sure Callington had to spend money on recruits when they 1st formed, we all know how that story ended.
My Lofty nearly went under after buying 3 flags.
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Re: Points System Is Crucifying Country Footy

Postby Bag & Sledge » Thu Jul 02, 2015 10:15 pm

cracka wrote:
Mr Beefy wrote:
Jim05 wrote:
Monopoly Man wrote:Isn't this whole campaign about protecting the SAAFL and SANFL? They are sick of losing players to country leagues for dollars.

Not sure the country leagues give a damn about the SAAFL, I know most people in the Barossa dont. Maybe the SAAFL need to catch up and charge entry fees.

Charge entry fees? So SAAFL clubs have more cash, causing country clubs to pay even more for their recruits?

Or causing country clubs to just use locals & NOT pay anything for recruits, there's a radical idea. Country clubs have been recruiting & overpaying players for 40 years so the blame for rising costs cant all be put on the APPS.
Maybe instead of APPS, clubs should have a local player scheme (LPS) where they have to use 75% (16 of 21 players) local, to qualify a player either has to have played junior footy at a club or live in the area, I know some clubs can offer work & accommodation as part of a package & rort the system.


The more locals the worse the standard of the A Grade.
You will have the current Reserves players who would have never had a look in at playing A Grade be a walk up start each week!!
Would you seriously watch that as the main game each week?
The standard would be deplorable!!
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Re: Re: Points System Is Crucifying Country Footy

Postby Bag & Sledge » Thu Jul 02, 2015 10:27 pm

Rough wrote:This is a genuine query without reflecting on any thing that has been posted here on what is an interesting and important topic at the moment but does any one know of a club that has folded because they spent too much money on recruits.
i am not talking about a club that has had to pull their heads in from time to time but clubs where their excessive player payments have caused them to fold. Really interested to know.


All clubs at the bottom of the table should be doing everything they can to work their backsides off and get up to where the top teams are.
If they have to look at ways of raising more money and thinking outside the square then so be it.
Why wouldn't the clubs at the bottom of premiership tables be doing everything in their power from a committee level to a playing & coaching group to try and get up the top of the ladder??

It shouldn't be up to a pathetic points system or salary cap to penalise the successful teams and attempt to push them down to the bottom, this is only brings the standard of the competition down, which no one wants to watch!!!
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Re: Points System Is Crucifying Country Footy

Postby cracka » Thu Jul 02, 2015 10:43 pm

Bag & Sledge wrote:The more locals the worse the standard of the A Grade.
You will have the current Reserves players who would have never had a look in at playing A Grade be a walk up start each week!!
Would you seriously watch that as the main game each week?
The standard would be deplorable!!

Yeah that would be sh!t just playing footy for the love of the game with your mates. Good to see you have such a low opinion of country footy.
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Re: Points System Is Crucifying Country Footy

Postby Look Good In Leather » Thu Jul 02, 2015 11:11 pm

cracka wrote:
Bag & Sledge wrote:The more locals the worse the standard of the A Grade.
You will have the current Reserves players who would have never had a look in at playing A Grade be a walk up start each week!!
Would you seriously watch that as the main game each week?
The standard would be deplorable!!

Yeah that would be sh!t just playing footy for the love of the game with your mates. Good to see you have such a low opinion of country footy.


That's what they are doing in the reserves at the moment. A few recruits are not going to stop that.
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Re: Points System Is Crucifying Country Footy

Postby cracka » Thu Jul 02, 2015 11:18 pm

Look Good In Leather wrote:
cracka wrote:
Bag & Sledge wrote:The more locals the worse the standard of the A Grade.
You will have the current Reserves players who would have never had a look in at playing A Grade be a walk up start each week!!
Would you seriously watch that as the main game each week?
The standard would be deplorable!!

Yeah that would be sh!t just playing footy for the love of the game with your mates. Good to see you have such a low opinion of country footy.


That's what they are doing in the reserves at the moment. A few recruits are not going to stop that.

But having no recruits would turn the standard into deplorable, apparently.
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Re: Points System Is Crucifying Country Footy

Postby Bag & Sledge » Thu Jul 02, 2015 11:18 pm

cracka wrote:
Bag & Sledge wrote:The more locals the worse the standard of the A Grade.
You will have the current Reserves players who would have never had a look in at playing A Grade be a walk up start each week!!
Would you seriously watch that as the main game each week?
The standard would be deplorable!!

Yeah that would be sh!t just playing footy for the love of the game with your mates. Good to see you have such a low opinion of country footy.


All players play week to week with their mates as it is right now, what's your point??
What sort of product would you like to put out there for people to watch Cracka??
A decent game of country footy with some quality players to watch which has kids excited about wanting to play football or a sub standard kick and catch with no spectators and kids looking to other things like soccer and the like because that's the way it's heading.
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Re: Points System Is Crucifying Country Footy

Postby cracka » Thu Jul 02, 2015 11:33 pm

Bag & Sledge wrote:
cracka wrote:
Bag & Sledge wrote:The more locals the worse the standard of the A Grade.
You will have the current Reserves players who would have never had a look in at playing A Grade be a walk up start each week!!
Would you seriously watch that as the main game each week?
The standard would be deplorable!!

Yeah that would be sh!t just playing footy for the love of the game with your mates. Good to see you have such a low opinion of country footy.


All players play week to week with their mates as it is right now, what's your point??
What sort of product would you like to put out there for people to watch Cracka??
A decent game of country footy with some quality players to watch which has kids excited about wanting to play football or a sub standard kick and catch with no spectators and kids looking to other things like soccer and the like because that's the way it's heading.

My point was, I took offence to country footy being labelled deplorable if clubs don't or can't spend mega dollars on recruiting overpaid mercenaries. I think you can still have a decent game of country footy with just local community people, who the kids of the clubs can relate to. Crowd figures are down more now since all this recruiting is going on. kids nowadays are already looking to other things, not just soccer, my son is giving up footy next year to concentrate on downhilling & it's got nothing to do with how many recruits the club has. After Saturday downhill practice we usually head back to the footy club for a meal & catch up with friends, which is what I think country footy should be about, not which club has the biggest budget.
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Re: Points System Is Crucifying Country Footy

Postby Bag & Sledge » Thu Jul 02, 2015 11:49 pm

cracka wrote:
Bag & Sledge wrote:
cracka wrote:
Bag & Sledge wrote:The more locals the worse the standard of the A Grade.
You will have the current Reserves players who would have never had a look in at playing A Grade be a walk up start each week!!
Would you seriously watch that as the main game each week?
The standard would be deplorable!!

Yeah that would be sh!t just playing footy for the love of the game with your mates. Good to see you have such a low opinion of country footy.


All players play week to week with their mates as it is right now, what's your point??
What sort of product would you like to put out there for people to watch Cracka??
A decent game of country footy with some quality players to watch which has kids excited about wanting to play football or a sub standard kick and catch with no spectators and kids looking to other things like soccer and the like because that's the way it's heading.

My point was, I took offence to country footy being labelled deplorable if clubs don't or can't spend mega dollars on recruiting overpaid mercenaries. I think you can still have a decent game of country footy with just local community people, who the kids of the clubs can relate to. Crowd figures are down more now since all this recruiting is going on. kids nowadays are already looking to other things, not just soccer, my son is giving up footy next year to concentrate on downhilling & it's got nothing to do with how many recruits the club has. After Saturday downhill practice we usually head back to the footy club for a meal & catch up with friends, which is what I think country footy should be about, not which club has the biggest budget.


Every team have more people back at their clubrooms post match when they are winning.
When they are losing people look elsewhere.
Winning creates Success.
So a club should work their backsides off to have success.
She was the last time your club tasted premiership success?
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Re: Points System Is Crucifying Country Footy

Postby cracka » Fri Jul 03, 2015 12:01 am

cracka wrote:
Bag & Sledge wrote:
cracka wrote:
Bag & Sledge wrote:The more locals the worse the standard of the A Grade.
You will have the current Reserves players who would have never had a look in at playing A Grade be a walk up start each week!!
Would you seriously watch that as the main game each week?
The standard would be deplorable!!

Yeah that would be sh!t just playing footy for the love of the game with your mates. Good to see you have such a low opinion of country footy.


All players play week to week with their mates as it is right now, what's your point??
What sort of product would you like to put out there for people to watch Cracka??
A decent game of country footy with some quality players to watch which has kids excited about wanting to play football or a sub standard kick and catch with no spectators and kids looking to other things like soccer and the like because that's the way it's heading.

My point was, I took offence to country footy being labelled deplorable if clubs don't or can't spend mega dollars on recruiting overpaid mercenaries. I think you can still have a decent game of country footy with just local community people, who the kids of the clubs can relate to. Crowd figures are down more now since all this recruiting is going on. kids nowadays are already looking to other things, not just soccer, my son is giving up footy next year to concentrate on downhilling & it's got nothing to do with how many recruits the club has. After Saturday downhill practice we usually head back to the footy club for a meal & catch up with friends, which is what I think country footy should be about, not which club has the biggest budget.


Bag & Sledge wrote:Every team have more people back at their clubrooms post match when they are winning.
When they are losing people look elsewhere.
Winning creates Success.
So a club should work their backsides off to have success.
She was the last time your club tasted premiership success?

That's pretty shallow. I'm of the old school where win lose or draw you support your team. At Onkas we get the same amount of punters back at the club regardless of the result.
It more like spending stupid amounts of money creates success.
Clubs are always working there backsides off, some are just lucky enough to have a major benefactor who is willing to throw money at mercenaries.
Actually I played in our last premiership success 20 years ago & we rewarded the locals with dollars as well as about 4 recruits.
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Re: Re: Points System Is Crucifying Country Footy

Postby cracka » Fri Jul 03, 2015 12:06 am

I can see we're never going to agree on this, I just don't believe the CFL or the APPS are totally to blame for everything wrong with community footy these days.
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Re: Points System Is Crucifying Country Footy

Postby batmanbegins » Fri Jul 03, 2015 12:09 am

Disagree with the premise winning brings more supporters, Whilst Ironbank aren't a successful club we had better numbers when we were coming bottom in around 2005. I can tell you we get no more supporters coming to watch just cos we have Hitchcock and Motlop. People invested in the club want to see the people that have played many years for the club as they have more interest in watching those people as they know them well. Once again Cracka knows better than I but by all accounts they still get plenty of people back to their club even though there struggling this year and I have no doubt they are working hard to succeed. I don't get how you can say clubs work their backside off for success, TV in the Hills comp have one guy that has a bucketload of cash and is the only reason they are any good. They spend no money on facilities, don't field the required Junior sides and yet have a great A grade side cos one guy spends big on them. That's not my definition of working hard to succeed.
Last edited by batmanbegins on Fri Jul 03, 2015 12:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Points System Is Crucifying Country Footy

Postby cracka » Fri Jul 03, 2015 12:18 am

All players play week to week with their mates as it is right now, what's your point??
What sort of product would you like to put out there for people to watch Cracka??
A decent game of country footy with some quality players to watch which has kids excited about wanting to play football or a sub standard kick and catch with no spectators and kids looking to other things like soccer and the like because that's the way it's heading.[/quote]
My point was, I took offence to country footy being labelled deplorable if clubs don't or can't spend mega dollars on recruiting overpaid mercenaries. I think you can still have a decent game of country footy with just local community people, who the kids of the clubs can relate to. Crowd figures are down more now since all this recruiting is going on. kids nowadays are already looking to other things, not just soccer, my son is giving up footy next year to concentrate on downhilling & it's got nothing to do with how many recruits the club has. After Saturday downhill practice we usually head back to the footy club for a meal & catch up with friends, which is what I think country footy should be about, not which club has the biggest budget.[/quote]

Every team have more people back at their clubrooms post match when they are winning.
When they are losing people look elsewhere.
Winning creates Success.
So a club should work their backsides off to have success.
She was the last time your club tasted premiership success?[/quote]

batmanbegins wrote:Disagree, Whilst Ironbank aren't a successful club we had better numbers when we were coming bottom in around 2005. I can tell you we get no more supporters coming to watch just cos we have Hitchcock and Motlop. People invested in the club want to see the people that have played many years for the club as they have more interest in watching those people as they know them well. Once again Cracka knows better than I but by all accounts they still get plenty of people back to their club even though there struggling this year and I have no doubt they are working hard to succeed. I don't get how you can say clubs work their backside off for success, TV in the Hills comp have one guy that has a bucketload of cash and is the only reason they are any good. They spend no money on facilities, don't field the required Junior sides and yet have a great A grade side cos one guy spends big on them. That's not my definition of working hard to succeed.

Where have u been all night. :D
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Re: Re: Points System Is Crucifying Country Footy

Postby running defender » Fri Jul 03, 2015 1:27 am

Callington folded because they were getting flogged each week, it was an embarrassment to the HFL and Mt lofty ran out of money because they had a tea leaf in the club, not because they bought 3 premierships. Ask yourself's this why have Uriadla been so successful ? Is it money or club culture or is it the coach, there model should be followed, whatever they are doing we should all be striving to match them. Clubs fold not because they run out money but a lack of numbers . Leave it alone it will sort itself out.
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Re: Points System Is Crucifying Country Footy

Postby TheBull » Fri Jul 03, 2015 10:26 am

cracka wrote:
Mr Beefy wrote:
Jim05 wrote:
Monopoly Man wrote:Isn't this whole campaign about protecting the SAAFL and SANFL? They are sick of losing players to country leagues for dollars.

Not sure the country leagues give a damn about the SAAFL, I know most people in the Barossa dont. Maybe the SAAFL need to catch up and charge entry fees.

Charge entry fees? So SAAFL clubs have more cash, causing country clubs to pay even more for their recruits?

Or causing country clubs to just use locals & NOT pay anything for recruits, there's a radical idea. Country clubs have been recruiting & overpaying players for 40 years so the blame for rising costs cant all be put on the APPS.
Maybe instead of APPS, clubs should have a local player scheme (LPS) where they have to use 75% (16 of 21 players) local, to qualify a player either has to have played junior footy at a club or live in the area, I know some clubs can offer work & accommodation as part of a package & rort the system.



I see what you are saying Cracka, but what happens to the clubs Like Echunga that don't have access to the amount of juniors that an Onkas, Blackwood or Handorf will get? Won't this just leave them disadvantaged in all grades? Personally being able to pay players seems like a fair way to even the comp out and clubs have to know their limits, clubs who spend too much trying for success will fold. Clubs who can bring through good locals and recruit their specific needs will be the more successful clubs. Maybe sides like Onkas can get away with only paying 4 recruits which is great for them but this is a club by club case and each club should be allowed to find their own recipe. If a club has an ability to fund raise and use these funds to better their club well that's their prerogative. Having a blanket rule for all football across the state is going to aid some and kill others.
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Re: Points System Is Crucifying Country Footy

Postby cracka » Fri Jul 03, 2015 11:56 am

TheBull wrote:
cracka wrote:Or causing country clubs to just use locals & NOT pay anything for recruits, there's a radical idea. Country clubs have been recruiting & overpaying players for 40 years so the blame for rising costs cant all be put on the APPS.
Maybe instead of APPS, clubs should have a local player scheme (LPS) where they have to use 75% (16 of 21 players) local, to qualify a player either has to have played junior footy at a club or live in the area, I know some clubs can offer work & accommodation as part of a package & rort the system.



I see what you are saying Cracka, but what happens to the clubs Like Echunga that don't have access to the amount of juniors that an Onkas, Blackwood or Handorf will get? Won't this just leave them disadvantaged in all grades? Personally being able to pay players seems like a fair way to even the comp out and clubs have to know their limits, clubs who spend too much trying for success will fold. Clubs who can bring through good locals and recruit their specific needs will be the more successful clubs. Maybe sides like Onkas can get away with only paying 4 recruits which is great for them but this is a club by club case and each club should be allowed to find their own recipe. If a club has an ability to fund raise and use these funds to better their club well that's their prerogative. Having a blanket rule for all football across the state is going to aid some and kill others.

Not having any rules at all will do just the same, probably quicker.
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Re: Re: Points System Is Crucifying Country Footy

Postby cracka » Fri Jul 03, 2015 1:15 pm

Can anyone tell me What year the APPS 1st came in.
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Re: Re: Points System Is Crucifying Country Footy

Postby Ye Olde Place Kick » Sat Jul 04, 2015 11:27 am

Certainly in the Hills League a problem is the constant changing of the number of points for each club as they look for any excuse. Stick to eg like the ammos 15 points per club or eg 10 for top and a sliding scale to 15 for bottom but make it a hard and fast rule NO exceptions. The biggest problem I note with the points system is when clubs lose a player they replace them but not improve their team. I have been out of the club scene for years now so will bow to those closer to the coal face but one idea mentioned in the Vic rules was additional point placed on players that move constantly. Uraidla, Kersbrook and it seems Echunga are heading down the same path of keeping their recruits for years and becoming zero pointers so can recruit more. So wouldn't players with one or two points extra depending on the number of times they have moved, be less likely to be recruited for others of similar talent worth less points? Uncertain if this would lessen the amount of money being paid with less player movement, as I can think of some pro's and con's either way. It would give clubs especially those with a good culture a better chance to build and develop their team with more selective recruiting by both player and club so retain more recruits but still allow them to earn coin.
Last edited by Ye Olde Place Kick on Sat Jul 04, 2015 11:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Points System Is Crucifying Country Footy

Postby Ye Olde Place Kick » Sat Jul 04, 2015 11:41 am

cracka wrote:
Mr Beefy wrote:
Jim05 wrote:
Monopoly Man wrote:Isn't this whole campaign about protecting the SAAFL and SANFL? They are sick of losing players to country leagues for dollars.

Not sure the country leagues give a damn about the SAAFL, I know most people in the Barossa dont. Maybe the SAAFL need to catch up and charge entry fees.

Charge entry fees? So SAAFL clubs have more cash, causing country clubs to pay even more for their recruits?

Or causing country clubs to just use locals & NOT pay anything for recruits, there's a radical idea. Country clubs have been recruiting & overpaying players for 40 years so the blame for rising costs cant all be put on the APPS.
Maybe instead of APPS, clubs should have a local player scheme (LPS) where they have to use 75% (16 of 21 players) local, to qualify a player either has to have played junior footy at a club or live in the area, I know some clubs can offer work & accommodation as part of a package & rort the system.


Have thought the same re clubs using locals with a limit of 3/4 imports. I know this would be impossible for most clubs but here's a idea Cracka. Perhaps the HFL and the Southern League could get together and form an Independent league with some of their smaller clubs, where there was a limit on imports. Yes the standard wouldn't be as high but it would allow them to play within their means, be more competitive and allow towns to keep their club and not amalgamate just to keep up with far bigger population based clubs.
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