Adelaide Plains Football League

[Lightning McQueen]

Angle vale will dominate in our junior competition. The worry is there A and B grade.

I don't think so.

[Lightning McQueen]

Whats the difference between Virginia and Angle Vale?

9kms

[Officejet]

Haven't seen either play but would Angle Vale beat HAmley Bridge?

[Greggy Gregginson]

Whats the difference between Virginia and Angle Vale?[/quote]
Probably not a lot which is what I would be worried about

[nos]

I see reading the Producer tonight, Angle Vale FC admission gaining some pace for season 2016

God i hope not

Why not?????

Without trying to be exclusive, I'd be against Angle Vale joining the APFL just on the grounds of it being a COUNTRY football league.
I have nothing against the Angle Vale Football Club but if the APFL goes down that path, it may just end up as a northern based metropolitan league.
I have no idea what other paths the APFL can go down to introduce other clubs that are not a part (or basically a part) of metropolitan Adelaide, which is exactly why I'm not a member of the board but I hope our status and atmosphere as a country footy league is maintained for the future of our country towns.

To set some facts straight Greggy...why can't AVFC join the APFL?

Angle Vale is actually classed as a country township not a suburb (metropolitan) which would make Angle Vale given the location just as worthy as any of the teams already in the APFL.

I would also like to quote some records from two books written by Peter Lines South Australian Country Football Digest and Encyclopedia of South Australian Country Football Clubs

1926-1932: Angle Vale was a member of the Lower North Football Association
1932: In recess
1934-1935: Gawler & Districts Football Association - B Grade competition
1936-1937: Returned to Lower North Football Association
1938: Did not reform (WWII broke out in 1939 and all country football associations went into recession during the war) many did not reform after the war.

Grand Finals played:

1927 - Angle Vale 9-5 def Korunye 6-8
1935 - Angle Vale def Smithfield (unfortunately no score)
1936 - Virginia 7-9 def Angle Vale 5-4

I think it would be good for the APFL to have the 8th team and to help struggling clubs like Hamely to stay in the comp. AVFC may not be as competitive in the Senior Comps but I certaintly know they would be in Juniors as they have around 280 kids registered to play in NEMJFA...as with the Netball they too are strong in the ENA .

[bennymacca]

I dont know much about the league, but 8 teams seems a hell of a lot stronger than 7, especially when one of those teams is getting belted.

If i had to bet either way i would have said the league was more likely to fold than add teams, so it seems good to me.

[Greggy Gregginson]

Not saying they can't join the comp, just saying that personally I would prefer they didn't.
Also, it may be considered a country town but it is vastly different to many country towns further from Adelaide.
I know of people around Balaklava, Port Wakefield, Lochiel and Mallala that would be happy to join other competitions and I don't think Angle Vale joining would help that. Again, I have nothing against the Angle Vale Football Club and wish them the best of luck with wherever they play in the future.
Also, these are just my opinions and should be interpreted that way and not as those of my footy club or of anyone else

[Lightning McQueen]

Not saying they can't join the comp, just saying that personally I would prefer they didn't.
Also, it may be considered a country town but it is vastly different to many country towns further from Adelaide.
I know of people around Balaklava, Port Wakefield, Lochiel and Mallala that would be happy to join other competitions and I don't think Angle Vale joining would help that. Again, I have nothing against the Angle Vale Football Club and wish them the best of luck with wherever they play in the future.
Also, these are just my opinions and should be interpreted that way and not as those of my footy club or of anyone else

Virginia is closer to the CBD than what Angle Vale is, it wont be too long before Two Wells will hardly be rural too, I think you'd need to look for other reasons to not want them to join the APFL rather than their geographical location.

AVFC currently play against Mitchell Park and Flinders Uni, Google's estimated travel time is 1 hour 3 mins to FUFC whereas it's 1 hour 5 mins to Lochiel, I can see why they'd want to push to join.

[RooShootOhh]

From an Association point of view, there are two possible directions this may head... To look at those you examine the existing teams first...

Balaklava - Good population, good junior numbers for the future of the comp, solid senior group already, local area sustainable, no risk of the town diminishing in the immediate future GOOD POSITION
Hamley Bridge - Small population, one ok junior side but not enough number to count on this for future, minimal senior representation, already a small town, with no immediate plans for growth DANGEROUS POSITION
Hummocks - Ok populations for the combined areas, ok juniors now, seniors improving but will rely heavily on recruited players for sustainability, Pt Wakefield will always be a busy area, but we already see that on locals alone (last year as an example) it is could prove difficult to compete. SEMI DANGEROUS POSITION
Mallala - Great Population, always good numbers and solid juniors, a core senior group that has been able to retain multiple 'imports' for multiple years, local area sustainable, good future for their area GREAT POSITION
Two Wells - Growing Population - Really good junior numbers and program, Senior group strong and still relatively young across the board, local area growing GREAT POSITION
United - Small Population, average junior numbers and results similar to Hamley, Local senior group ok but some are nearing the end of their playing days so rely on recruits to remain competitive and/or challenge, future growth of the area unlikely DANGEROUS POSITION
Virginia - Good population, junior numbers a huge concern esp given the population, had a great senior group that have stuck together for a while, but in 5 years if some/most are gone, who replaces them, the area itself is in great shape, urban sprawl will only add numbers MIDDLE ROAD POSITION

SUMMARY - Balak, Mallala and Two Wells are in really good positions, but 3 teams dont make a comp. Virginia are in a good position with their senior footy, but their juniors are a huge concern and i dont think they have their full compliment of netty teams either (but dont quote me). Hamley, United and Hummocks are the concerns (all at different levels of course). All have minimal numbers or depth in local senior ranks, and the ones that are there may be getting towards the back end of their careers. All 3 over the last two years have shown, to differing levels, that when relying on mainly locals, they are on a hiding to nothing, when a good local contingent are available with MULTIPLE 'imports', then they can compete. But when team are solely relying on imports to remain competitive, that is not a good sign.

So

Option 1 - Add Angle Vale in, bringing more numbers into the competition can't be a bad thing since EVERY country comp is struggling with participation rates. It is not out of the way in terms geographical location, and with high junior participation levels, it may filter into the rest of the comp where some teams are experiencing low numbers. Comp goes to 8, possible allows for an even draw not relying on byes, should be seen as a positive. If a team like Hamley folds, you are still left with a 7 team comp, so while not great to lose a club, the comp itself remains in a similar position but with higher junior numbers. Remembering that junior number will be the reason the comp continues in the future.

Option 2 - Change nothing. But what that does is put pressure on EVERYONE. Hamley have a long road ahead, with a non existant local playing base at the moment, they either have to wait to their juniors filter through (which numbers aren't that high anyway) or constantly rely on players from outside the town (imports in one form or another). Lets just say hypothetically that doesnt work out, comp is down to 6. Then lets say United (not picking on them, just an example) have 5 or 6 existing locals retire, the sugggested salary cap and points system restrict them from recruiting good numbers, then they are in the position like Hamley are now (and results this year have shown when all their imports have been out injured they have been belted even if not Hamley like), then in a few years they fold (and I could have used Hummocks as an example given similar demographics), down to 5 team... = COMP GONE .... what then...

Well I see it like this,

Virginia - perfect fit for the Ammo's solid senior numbers who could easily go up the divisions, no pressure of junior numbers which they are struggling with.
Mallala and Two Wells - Both enter the Barossa league, good juniors, strong seniors, strong netty, close proximity to the area, ticks all the boxes
Balak - Join the North Eastern league, same as above, but geographically better suited to the NE comp.
Hummocks - If sustainable, potentiall join the Yorkes league, travel wise would be relitively similar, strength of the comp may suit. If not sustainable, then potentially fold.
Hamley and United - Given population issues, potential of area growth being minimal, ability to recruit players to the club limited by the cap and points sytem, they both find themselves (at some stage but not immediate in United case) unsustainable. They could potentially merge together and attempt to join another league, I doubt the Barossa would take a third team, maybe too far away from the NEFL... not looking too bright if the comp goes bust.

So everyone has to ask themselves, if they sit around and do little and hope the association stays as it is because thats the way we like it, then they will be in for a big shock, the APFL (with other country leagues I may add) will die a slow death.

[OnSong]

From an Association point of view, there are two possible directions this may head... To look at those you examine the existing teams first...

Balaklava - Good population, good junior numbers for the future of the comp, solid senior group already, local area sustainable, no risk of the town diminishing in the immediate future GOOD POSITION
Hamley Bridge - Small population, one ok junior side but not enough number to count on this for future, minimal senior representation, already a small town, with no immediate plans for growth DANGEROUS POSITION
Hummocks - Ok populations for the combined areas, ok juniors now, seniors improving but will rely heavily on recruited players for sustainability, Pt Wakefield will always be a busy area, but we already see that on locals alone (last year as an example) it is could prove difficult to compete. SEMI DANGEROUS POSITION
Mallala - Great Population, always good numbers and solid juniors, a core senior group that has been able to retain multiple 'imports' for multiple years, local area sustainable, good future for their area GREAT POSITION
Two Wells - Growing Population - Really good junior numbers and program, Senior group strong and still relatively young across the board, local area growing GREAT POSITION
United - Small Population, average junior numbers and results similar to Hamley, Local senior group ok but some are nearing the end of their playing days so rely on recruits to remain competitive and/or challenge, future growth of the area unlikely DANGEROUS POSITION
Virginia - Good population, junior numbers a huge concern esp given the population, had a great senior group that have stuck together for a while, but in 5 years if some/most are gone, who replaces them, the area itself is in great shape, urban sprawl will only add numbers MIDDLE ROAD POSITION

SUMMARY - Balak, Mallala and Two Wells are in really good positions, but 3 teams dont make a comp. Virginia are in a good position with their senior footy, but their juniors are a huge concern and i dont think they have their full compliment of netty teams either (but dont quote me). Hamley, United and Hummocks are the concerns (all at different levels of course). All have minimal numbers or depth in local senior ranks, and the ones that are there may be getting towards the back end of their careers. All 3 over the last two years have shown, to differing levels, that when relying on mainly locals, they are on a hiding to nothing, when a good local contingent are available with MULTIPLE 'imports', then they can compete. But when team are solely relying on imports to remain competitive, that is not a good sign.

So

Option 1 - Add Angle Vale in, bringing more numbers into the competition can't be a bad thing since EVERY country comp is struggling with participation rates. It is not out of the way in terms geographical location, and with high junior participation levels, it may filter into the rest of the comp where some teams are experiencing low numbers. Comp goes to 8, possible allows for an even draw not relying on byes, should be seen as a positive. If a team like Hamley folds, you are still left with a 7 team comp, so while not great to lose a club, the comp itself remains in a similar position but with higher junior numbers. Remembering that junior number will be the reason the comp continues in the future.

Option 2 - Change nothing. But what that does is put pressure on EVERYONE. Hamley have a long road ahead, with a non existant local playing base at the moment, they either have to wait to their juniors filter through (which numbers aren't that high anyway) or constantly rely on players from outside the town (imports in one form or another). Lets just say hypothetically that doesnt work out, comp is down to 6. Then lets say United (not picking on them, just an example) have 5 or 6 existing locals retire, the sugggested salary cap and points system restrict them from recruiting good numbers, then they are in the position like Hamley are now (and results this year have shown when all their imports have been out injured they have been belted even if not Hamley like), then in a few years they fold (and I could have used Hummocks as an example given similar demographics), down to 5 team... = COMP GONE .... what then...

Well I see it like this,

Virginia - perfect fit for the Ammo's solid senior numbers who could easily go up the divisions, no pressure of junior numbers which they are struggling with.
Mallala and Two Wells - Both enter the Barossa league, good juniors, strong seniors, strong netty, close proximity to the area, ticks all the boxes
Balak - Join the North Eastern league, same as above, but geographically better suited to the NE comp.
Hummocks - If sustainable, potentiall join the Yorkes league, travel wise would be relitively similar, strength of the comp may suit. If not sustainable, then potentially fold.
Hamley and United - Given population issues, potential of area growth being minimal, ability to recruit players to the club limited by the cap and points sytem, they both find themselves (at some stage but not immediate in United case) unsustainable. They could potentially merge together and attempt to join another league, I doubt the Barossa would take a third team, maybe too far away from the NEFL... not looking too bright if the comp goes bust.

So everyone has to ask themselves, if they sit around and do little and hope the association stays as it is because thats the way we like it, then they will be in for a big shock, the APFL (with other country leagues I may add) will die a slow death.

Want a job?

[Mythical Creature]

From an Association point of view, there are two possible directions this may head... To look at those you examine the existing teams first...

Balaklava - Good population, good junior numbers for the future of the comp, solid senior group already, local area sustainable, no risk of the town diminishing in the immediate future GOOD POSITION
Hamley Bridge - Small population, one ok junior side but not enough number to count on this for future, minimal senior representation, already a small town, with no immediate plans for growth DANGEROUS POSITION
Hummocks - Ok populations for the combined areas, ok juniors now, seniors improving but will rely heavily on recruited players for sustainability, Pt Wakefield will always be a busy area, but we already see that on locals alone (last year as an example) it is could prove difficult to compete. SEMI DANGEROUS POSITION
Mallala - Great Population, always good numbers and solid juniors, a core senior group that has been able to retain multiple 'imports' for multiple years, local area sustainable, good future for their area GREAT POSITION
Two Wells - Growing Population - Really good junior numbers and program, Senior group strong and still relatively young across the board, local area growing GREAT POSITION
United - Small Population, average junior numbers and results similar to Hamley, Local senior group ok but some are nearing the end of their playing days so rely on recruits to remain competitive and/or challenge, future growth of the area unlikely DANGEROUS POSITION
Virginia - Good population, junior numbers a huge concern esp given the population, had a great senior group that have stuck together for a while, but in 5 years if some/most are gone, who replaces them, the area itself is in great shape, urban sprawl will only add numbers MIDDLE ROAD POSITION

SUMMARY - Balak, Mallala and Two Wells are in really good positions, but 3 teams dont make a comp. Virginia are in a good position with their senior footy, but their juniors are a huge concern and i dont think they have their full compliment of netty teams either (but dont quote me). Hamley, United and Hummocks are the concerns (all at different levels of course). All have minimal numbers or depth in local senior ranks, and the ones that are there may be getting towards the back end of their careers. All 3 over the last two years have shown, to differing levels, that when relying on mainly locals, they are on a hiding to nothing, when a good local contingent are available with MULTIPLE 'imports', then they can compete. But when team are solely relying on imports to remain competitive, that is not a good sign.

So

Option 1 - Add Angle Vale in, bringing more numbers into the competition can't be a bad thing since EVERY country comp is struggling with participation rates. It is not out of the way in terms geographical location, and with high junior participation levels, it may filter into the rest of the comp where some teams are experiencing low numbers. Comp goes to 8, possible allows for an even draw not relying on byes, should be seen as a positive. If a team like Hamley folds, you are still left with a 7 team comp, so while not great to lose a club, the comp itself remains in a similar position but with higher junior numbers. Remembering that junior number will be the reason the comp continues in the future.

Option 2 - Change nothing. But what that does is put pressure on EVERYONE. Hamley have a long road ahead, with a non existant local playing base at the moment, they either have to wait to their juniors filter through (which numbers aren't that high anyway) or constantly rely on players from outside the town (imports in one form or another). Lets just say hypothetically that doesnt work out, comp is down to 6. Then lets say United (not picking on them, just an example) have 5 or 6 existing locals retire, the sugggested salary cap and points system restrict them from recruiting good numbers, then they are in the position like Hamley are now (and results this year have shown when all their imports have been out injured they have been belted even if not Hamley like), then in a few years they fold (and I could have used Hummocks as an example given similar demographics), down to 5 team... = COMP GONE .... what then...

Well I see it like this,

Virginia - perfect fit for the Ammo's solid senior numbers who could easily go up the divisions, no pressure of junior numbers which they are struggling with.
Mallala and Two Wells - Both enter the Barossa league, good juniors, strong seniors, strong netty, close proximity to the area, ticks all the boxes
Balak - Join the North Eastern league, same as above, but geographically better suited to the NE comp.
Hummocks - If sustainable, potentiall join the Yorkes league, travel wise would be relitively similar, strength of the comp may suit. If not sustainable, then potentially fold.
Hamley and United - Given population issues, potential of area growth being minimal, ability to recruit players to the club limited by the cap and points sytem, they both find themselves (at some stage but not immediate in United case) unsustainable. They could potentially merge together and attempt to join another league, I doubt the Barossa would take a third team, maybe too far away from the NEFL... not looking too bright if the comp goes bust.

So everyone has to ask themselves, if they sit around and do little and hope the association stays as it is because thats the way we like it, then they will be in for a big shock, the APFL (with other country leagues I may add) will die a slow death.

What a load of shit.
I would say Hummocks and United are at their healthiest overall number wise they have been for years. Yes, our 17's are lacking numbers but 3 years ago our 14's were lacking numbers so continuing with the cycle. The last 2 years we have had our best numbers in history for 14's and 11's and if you look at the number of kids smaller than this running around, I would say in 3 years time a junior numbers problem will be non-existant at the tigers. Our 14's coach has had to give numerous kids a week off this year as you can't play more than 25. That has never happened in our history!

You wouldn't even be talking about clubs in crisis if it wasn't for Hamley Bridge and the mess THEY THEMSELVES have got into. Unfortunately for whoever is left at the Bombers have had nothing to do with the past couple of years as everyone has left. But. that's what happens when you get a LOT of money from 1 person and none from anywhere else and rely on a coach to do ALL of your recruiting. When those 2 people leave they take everything with them.

Most sustainable clubs get a LITTLE bit of money from a lot of people and the club themselves do majority of recruiting. That way when a sponsor and or a coach leaves it doesn't kill a club off. I would be feeling guilty as all hell if I was coach or sponsor at Hamley last year, now knowing that you have nearly killed a club. Yes, clubs are allowed to buy a flag but it usually just costs $$$$$. Unfortunately for Hamley and the rest of the comp, or even country footy last years flag cost more than just money.

[OnSong]

I accept perhaps the analysis of United may have missed the mark but perhaps a bit harsh on someone simply participating in debate.

The analysis of Mallala as a viable township is also off the mark if you consider the way the locals are rallying there at the moment on the back of the hospital closure and impending shift of council's administration.

Thought it was a well-presented opinion but to label it "a load of shit" is a bit rough.

Credit to the response though but without knowing exactly what's going on at every other club, it's hard to be right on all facets of each one.

[Mythical Creature]

I accept perhaps the analysis of United may have missed the mark but perhaps a bit harsh on someone simply participating in debate.

The analysis of Mallala as a viable township is also off the mark if you consider the way the locals are rallying there at the moment on the back of the hospital closure and impending shift of council's administration.

Thought it was a well-presented opinion but to label it "a load of shit" is a bit rough.

Credit to the response though but without knowing exactly what's going on at every other club, it's hard to be right on all facets of each one.

Fair call but I think its a bit rough for someone to express his / her opinions on the league as a whole and how it is suffering when they were possibly a part of nearly killing a club, then portraying the whole league is in strife. My main point is that if Hamley weren't so poorly mismanaged we wouldn't even be talking of the (faint I hope) possibility of losing a side and the need to replace them.

[OnSong]

I accept perhaps the analysis of United may have missed the mark but perhaps a bit harsh on someone simply participating in debate.

The analysis of Mallala as a viable township is also off the mark if you consider the way the locals are rallying there at the moment on the back of the hospital closure and impending shift of council's administration.

Thought it was a well-presented opinion but to label it "a load of shit" is a bit rough.

Credit to the response though but without knowing exactly what's going on at every other club, it's hard to be right on all facets of each one.

Fair call but I think its a bit rough for someone to express his / her opinions on the league as a whole and how it is suffering when they were possibly a part of nearly killing a club, then portraying the whole league is in strife. My main point is that if Hamley weren't so poorly mismanaged we wouldn't even be talking of the (faint I hope) possibility of losing a side and the need to replace them.

Your point was well-made too. Absolutely agree

[RooShootOhh]

I accept perhaps the analysis of United may have missed the mark but perhaps a bit harsh on someone simply participating in debate.

The analysis of Mallala as a viable township is also off the mark if you consider the way the locals are rallying there at the moment on the back of the hospital closure and impending shift of council's administration.

Thought it was a well-presented opinion but to label it "a load of shit" is a bit rough.

Credit to the response though but without knowing exactly what's going on at every other club, it's hard to be right on all facets of each one.

Fair call but I think its a bit rough for someone to express his / her opinions on the league as a whole and how it is suffering when they were possibly a part of nearly killing a club, then portraying the whole league is in strife. My main point is that if Hamley weren't so poorly mismanaged we wouldn't even be talking of the (faint I hope) possibility of losing a side and the need to replace them.

Your response is great, and it's great t hear United are in good shape..

My post wasn't saying that's what will happen, what I want to happen or why it may happen.
I was merely giving two possible options...

Given the argument of whether AV come in or not was being debated, I was just expressing possibilities other than just saying whether I like it not.

And your response of united position is exactly why bringing AV in would be the best of the two paths I mentioned. Yes they may not be super competitive in the seniors early (they may be also) but with them bring large numbers of juniors to the comp would be the best out come for everyone right?

So it's not about replacing anyone it's actually about making the comp stronger number wise overall.

But be open minded, every country league will be facing the same problems as the APFL, and if you think anything less, well...

[Mythical Creature]

I accept perhaps the analysis of United may have missed the mark but perhaps a bit harsh on someone simply participating in debate.

The analysis of Mallala as a viable township is also off the mark if you consider the way the locals are rallying there at the moment on the back of the hospital closure and impending shift of council's administration.

Thought it was a well-presented opinion but to label it "a load of shit" is a bit rough.

Credit to the response though but without knowing exactly what's going on at every other club, it's hard to be right on all facets of each one.

Fair call but I think its a bit rough for someone to express his / her opinions on the league as a whole and how it is suffering when they were possibly a part of nearly killing a club, then portraying the whole league is in strife. My main point is that if Hamley weren't so poorly mismanaged we wouldn't even be talking of the (faint I hope) possibility of losing a side and the need to replace them.

Your response is great, and it's great t hear United are in good shape..

My post wasn't saying that's what will happen, what I want to happen or why it may happen.
I was merely giving two possible options...

Given the argument of whether AV come in or not was being debated, I was just expressing possibilities other than just saying whether I like it not.

And your response of united position is exactly why bringing AV in would be the best of the two paths I mentioned. Yes they may not be super competitive in the seniors early (they may be also) but with them bring large numbers of juniors to the comp would be the best out come for everyone right?

So it's not about replacing anyone it's actually about making the comp stronger number wise overall.

But be open minded, every country league will be facing the same problems as the APFL, and if you think anything less, well...

My concerns with Angle Vale are that everyone keeps saying they have heaps of Juniors and so they should with the location. But they play on Sundays in a different comp yeah? What is going to make them change to a Saturday, when they can go and play for the club next door and do next to no travelling. This is the issue Virginia have with their kids, given that I would consider Angle Vale more "metropolitan" than Virginia I can't see that the numbers will be as great as everyone says they will be.

[whufc]

Agree in regards to AV Juniors.

If they decided they were going to move to a Saturday i could see alot of their juniors moving to the other sunday local sides like Smithfield, Elizabeth and Eastern Park.

I also think if AV did move the juniors to Saturdays alot of parent may take their children to the Gawler clubs to play in what is perceived to be a much stronger comp and with close ties to the local SANFL club Centrals.

[human_torpedo]

Gawler clubs wont have a close tie with SANFL for long if they reject the Salary Cap and lose affiliation..

[Dogwatcher]

There are many people saying Hamley and last year's big spend are the reason people are discussing this issue.
Hadn't they been in strife before the big spend anyway? From 2011 backwards, where did they finish? How many games won?

[magpieeagle]

Drop by AV on the way back from Playford Oval for a look and chat

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