Re: Points System Is Crucifying Country Footy

Talk on any country footy league or club from the SA Country area

Re: Points System Is Crucifying Country Footy

Postby RooShootOhh » Wed Sep 16, 2015 8:43 am

I wonder if a change to the points allocation would make life easier and give greater incentive for clubs to retain players.

What would be the outcome for clubs if the -1 point was taken away from U17 kids, but was applied to players who have played 100+ A Grade games for your club?

Most associations are 16 games per season, so it would be just over 6 full seasons without missing a game to become eligible. If you are lucky enough to play finals, you may get it just before the end of your 6th season.

Still capped at say 3 players.

I want to make it clear I'm all for junior development, and clubs should be trying to get the most out of their kids, but I wonder if its having a negative effect sometimes, the kid goes up to play A's. hardly gets on, doesn't enjoy, doesn't want to do it again (which is becoming common from what I'm hearing around the traps). The other thing is sometimes good local seniors may miss out on a game in the A's because of the clubs need to play a kid or two...

Rather than try and get around the system 'using' kids, why not reward clubs who manage to keep players at their club???
RooShootOhh
Under 16s
 
Posts: 439
Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2012 10:35 am
Has liked: 2 times
Been liked: 40 times
Grassroots Team: Waikerie

Re: Points System Is Crucifying Country Footy

Postby Look Good In Leather » Wed Sep 16, 2015 10:49 am

RooShootOhh wrote:I wonder if a change to the points allocation would make life easier and give greater incentive for clubs to retain players.

What would be the outcome for clubs if the -1 point was taken away from U17 kids, but was applied to players who have played 100+ A Grade games for your club?

Most associations are 16 games per season, so it would be just over 6 full seasons without missing a game to become eligible. If you are lucky enough to play finals, you may get it just before the end of your 6th season.

Still capped at say 3 players.

I want to make it clear I'm all for junior development, and clubs should be trying to get the most out of their kids, but I wonder if its having a negative effect sometimes, the kid goes up to play A's. hardly gets on, doesn't enjoy, doesn't want to do it again (which is becoming common from what I'm hearing around the traps). The other thing is sometimes good local seniors may miss out on a game in the A's because of the clubs need to play a kid or two...

Rather than try and get around the system 'using' kids, why not reward clubs who manage to keep players at their club???


I have heard this suggested by others as well and it is a valid point.

However, should the discussion be more about abolishing the points system now the cap is in place?
User avatar
Look Good In Leather
League - Best 21
 
 
Posts: 2070
Joined: Thu May 01, 2008 9:50 am
Has liked: 150 times
Been liked: 284 times
Grassroots Team: Christies Beach

Re: Points System Is Crucifying Country Footy

Postby RooShootOhh » Wed Sep 16, 2015 11:33 am

Look Good In Leather wrote:I have heard this suggested by others as well and it is a valid point.

However, should the discussion be more about abolishing the points system now the cap is in place?


I agree it should be scrapped, but while the governing body oversee both Country and Ammo footy it probably wont happen.
The problem is both use it for different reasons.

Ammos use it to cap recruited players, but given EVERY team gets 15 points, its not used to even the divisions (thats what promotion & relegation is used for)
Country use it to even the comp...

If there not going to scrap it, why not give every country team 15 points and be done with it.
RooShootOhh
Under 16s
 
Posts: 439
Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2012 10:35 am
Has liked: 2 times
Been liked: 40 times
Grassroots Team: Waikerie

Re: Points System Is Crucifying Country Footy

Postby cracka » Wed Sep 16, 2015 12:08 pm

RooShootOhh wrote:
Look Good In Leather wrote:I have heard this suggested by others as well and it is a valid point.

However, should the discussion be more about abolishing the points system now the cap is in place?


I agree it should be scrapped, but while the governing body oversee both Country and Ammo footy it probably wont happen.
The problem is both use it for different reasons.

Ammos use it to cap recruited players, but given EVERY team gets 15 points, its not used to even the divisions (thats what promotion & relegation is used for)
Country use it to even the comp...

If there not going to scrap it, why not give every country team 15 points and be done with it.

I think it's up to the individual leagues to change how their own points are distributed.
cracka
Veteran
 
 
Posts: 3645
Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2013 9:41 am
Has liked: 458 times
Been liked: 560 times
Grassroots Team: Onkaparinga Valley

Re: Points System Is Crucifying Country Footy

Postby Mr Beefy » Fri Oct 16, 2015 1:13 pm

For anyone interested in the Victorian PPS which is getting implemented in 2016, here is a snapshot. Each club gets 50 points to start with, although there is some discretion to allow more.

VicPPS.JPG
VicPPS.JPG (173.97 KiB) Viewed 5279 times


http://www.aflvic.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/AFL-Victoria-Player-Points-System-Policy.pdf
User avatar
Mr Beefy
Coach
 
 
Posts: 5043
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 4:18 pm
Has liked: 404 times
Been liked: 651 times
Grassroots Team: Rosewater

Re: Points System Is Crucifying Country Footy

Postby cracka » Fri Oct 16, 2015 7:11 pm

Mr Beefy wrote:For anyone interested in the Victorian PPS which is getting implemented in 2016, here is a snapshot. Each club gets 50 points to start with, although there is some discretion to allow more.

VicPPS.JPG


http://www.aflvic.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/AFL-Victoria-Player-Points-System-Policy.pdf

Faaaark. Will make team selections a nightmare for any senior coach.
cracka
Veteran
 
 
Posts: 3645
Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2013 9:41 am
Has liked: 458 times
Been liked: 560 times
Grassroots Team: Onkaparinga Valley

Re: Points System Is Crucifying Country Footy

Postby Mr Beefy » Sat Oct 17, 2015 9:30 am

cracka wrote:
Mr Beefy wrote:For anyone interested in the Victorian PPS which is getting implemented in 2016, here is a snapshot. Each club gets 50 points to start with, although there is some discretion to allow more.

VicPPS.JPG


http://www.aflvic.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/AFL-Victoria-Player-Points-System-Policy.pdf

Faaaark. Will make team selections a nightmare for any senior coach.

Not sure it would be any harder than team selections here. All your local/long term players are worth 1 instead of 0
User avatar
Mr Beefy
Coach
 
 
Posts: 5043
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 4:18 pm
Has liked: 404 times
Been liked: 651 times
Grassroots Team: Rosewater

Re: Re: Points System Is Crucifying Country Footy

Postby oldbomber » Mon Oct 19, 2015 1:11 am

What a balls up. Very detailed. I have a headache from reading it, god help the poor volunteers at clubs who have to sort this out.

Have to say south aus points system and salary cap is much easier and clearer to understand.

If a player has played 40 or more senior games at a club but no juniors are they still a category 1 player or potentially category 3? Poorly worded if so as it appears to me only 17 and under games count and junior aligned club is referenced...could be wrong. Anyone else comprehend this rubbish??
oldbomber
Rookie
 
Posts: 174
Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2014 5:39 pm
Has liked: 41 times
Been liked: 33 times

Re: Points System Is Crucifying Country Footy

Postby Bag & Sledge » Tue Oct 20, 2015 10:58 am

How do the Community Football League and South Australian Amateur Football League allow Amateur clubs to pay their players anyway?
The Victorian Amaateur Football League still don't pay their players!
AMATEUR=
1. One who engages in an art, science, study, or athletic activity as a pastime rather than as a profession.
2. An athlete who has never accepted money, or who accepts money under restrictions specified by a regulatory body, for participating in a competition.

Is the South Australian Amateur Football League the only amateur football league in Australia that pay players?
Bag & Sledge
Under 18s
 
 
Posts: 541
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2008 10:37 am
Has liked: 40 times
Been liked: 31 times

Re: Points System Is Crucifying Country Footy

Postby Jimmy_041 » Tue Oct 20, 2015 1:43 pm

Bag & Sledge wrote:How do the Community Football League and South Australian Amateur Football League allow Amateur clubs to pay their players anyway?
The Victorian Amaateur Football League still don't pay their players!
AMATEUR=
1. One who engages in an art, science, study, or athletic activity as a pastime rather than as a profession.
2. An athlete who has never accepted money, or who accepts money under restrictions specified by a regulatory body, for participating in a competition.

Is the South Australian Amateur Football League the only amateur football league in Australia that pay players?


You mean the "Channel 9 Adelaide Football League"?
User avatar
Jimmy_041
Coach
 
 
Posts: 13981
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2008 5:30 pm
Has liked: 718 times
Been liked: 1071 times
Grassroots Team: Prince Alfred OC

Re: Points System Is Crucifying Country Footy

Postby Look Good In Leather » Tue Oct 20, 2015 3:06 pm

Jimmy_041 wrote:
Bag & Sledge wrote:How do the Community Football League and South Australian Amateur Football League allow Amateur clubs to pay their players anyway?
The Victorian Amaateur Football League still don't pay their players!
AMATEUR=
1. One who engages in an art, science, study, or athletic activity as a pastime rather than as a profession.
2. An athlete who has never accepted money, or who accepts money under restrictions specified by a regulatory body, for participating in a competition.

Is the South Australian Amateur Football League the only amateur football league in Australia that pay players?


You mean the "Channel 9 Adelaide Football League"?


That wear the state jumper for their association games as the "State Amateur Team"
User avatar
Look Good In Leather
League - Best 21
 
 
Posts: 2070
Joined: Thu May 01, 2008 9:50 am
Has liked: 150 times
Been liked: 284 times
Grassroots Team: Christies Beach

Re: Points System Is Crucifying Country Footy

Postby Jimmy_041 » Tue Oct 20, 2015 5:05 pm

Look Good In Leather wrote:
Jimmy_041 wrote:
Bag & Sledge wrote:How do the Community Football League and South Australian Amateur Football League allow Amateur clubs to pay their players anyway?
The Victorian Amaateur Football League still don't pay their players!
AMATEUR=
1. One who engages in an art, science, study, or athletic activity as a pastime rather than as a profession.
2. An athlete who has never accepted money, or who accepts money under restrictions specified by a regulatory body, for participating in a competition.

Is the South Australian Amateur Football League the only amateur football league in Australia that pay players?


You mean the "Channel 9 Adelaide Football League"?


That wear the state jumper for their association games as the "State Amateur Team"


Different competition played under different rules & regs.
Not our problem if the AAFC are OK with it
User avatar
Jimmy_041
Coach
 
 
Posts: 13981
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2008 5:30 pm
Has liked: 718 times
Been liked: 1071 times
Grassroots Team: Prince Alfred OC

Re: Points System Is Crucifying Country Footy

Postby Benchwarmer » Mon Oct 26, 2015 5:01 pm

Points can be policed by anyone and infringements can be quickly and easily noted and penalised.

Salary caps are easily circumvented which defeats the purpose (e.g. skimming of gate takings to pay cash in hand, third party payments, raffles being diverted to players without going through the books, keeping two sets of books - one for auditing and the other being the real books, etc.).

I have been in sports admin at a statewide level and know that you cannot catch people unless they are stupid as the above methods are sure fire ways to get away with it ... unless you are the Melbourne Storm LOL
User avatar
Benchwarmer
League Bench Warmer
 
 
Posts: 1033
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2007 5:03 pm
Location: Sunny Perth
Has liked: 111 times
Been liked: 15 times
Grassroots Team: Callington

Re: Points System Is Crucifying Country Footy

Postby oyster » Mon Oct 26, 2015 6:51 pm

Benchwarmer wrote:Points can be policed by anyone and infringements can be quickly and easily noted and penalised.

Salary caps are easily circumvented which defeats the purpose (e.g. skimming of gate takings to pay cash in hand, third party payments, raffles being diverted to players without going through the books, keeping two sets of books - one for auditing and the other being the real books, etc.).

I have been in sports admin at a statewide level and know that you cannot catch people unless they are stupid as the above methods are sure fire ways to get away with it ... unless you are the Melbourne Storm LOL



Spot on. Thats exactly why the rule is as useful as an ashtray on a motorbike. The very nature of coaches, players, football clubs and supporters is to try and win games of football and premierships. After a year of playing by the rules and seeing the other clubs not playing by the rules and having success, then human nature will kick in and payments will happen via all the methods you just described and then some. Why administrators have to try and justify their position by bringing in rules that will never work always astounds me. Administrators are about as useful as the ashtray on the said motorbike when they try to justify their positions with ridiculous rules. People just trying to look important when they finish playing while some never did which is even more astounding.
oyster
Rookie
 
Posts: 180
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2015 1:29 am
Has liked: 0 time
Been liked: 20 times

Re: Points System Is Crucifying Country Footy

Postby Bag & Sledge » Mon Oct 26, 2015 8:48 pm

oyster wrote:
Benchwarmer wrote:Points can be policed by anyone and infringements can be quickly and easily noted and penalised.

Salary caps are easily circumvented which defeats the purpose (e.g. skimming of gate takings to pay cash in hand, third party payments, raffles being diverted to players without going through the books, keeping two sets of books - one for auditing and the other being the real books, etc.).

I have been in sports admin at a statewide level and know that you cannot catch people unless they are stupid as the above methods are sure fire ways to get away with it ... unless you are the Melbourne Storm LOL



Spot on. Thats exactly why the rule is as useful as an ashtray on a motorbike. The very nature of coaches, players, football clubs and supporters is to try and win games of football and premierships. After a year of playing by the rules and seeing the other clubs not playing by the rules and having success, then human nature will kick in and payments will happen via all the methods you just described and then some. Why administrators have to try and justify their position by bringing in rules that will never work always astounds me. Administrators are about as useful as the ashtray on the said motorbike when they try to justify their positions with ridiculous rules. People just trying to look important when they finish playing while some never did which is even more astounding.


Totally agree with both post's... That's why I originally said the Points System is only driving up the players prices hence why the points system needs to go.
Lets see how many 2016 Premiership clubs follow the Salary Cap.
Bag & Sledge
Under 18s
 
 
Posts: 541
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2008 10:37 am
Has liked: 40 times
Been liked: 31 times

Re: Re: Points System Is Crucifying Country Footy

Postby Benchwarmer » Mon Oct 26, 2015 9:34 pm

One league in country WA has the points and the player points are printed in brackets beside the player's name in the league's Football Budget. No instances of clubs playing sides over the maximum points. Despite no other leagues using PPS in the region, clubs don't seem to be overspending and the points results in more thoughtful recruiting.
User avatar
Benchwarmer
League Bench Warmer
 
 
Posts: 1033
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2007 5:03 pm
Location: Sunny Perth
Has liked: 111 times
Been liked: 15 times
Grassroots Team: Callington

Re: Re: Points System Is Crucifying Country Footy

Postby oyster » Mon Oct 26, 2015 10:01 pm

Benchwarmer wrote:One league in country WA has the points and the player points are printed in brackets beside the player's name in the league's Football Budget. No instances of clubs playing sides over the maximum points. Despite no other leagues using PPS in the region, clubs don't seem to be overspending and the points results in more thoughtful recruiting.


Only a handful of clubs across South Australia would be overspending. The FF League are trying to save leagues/clubs from themselves. The easiest solution would be to get rid of the SANFL reserves. It's now a very, very average competition. That would solve the problems in SA. The SANFL could play the league, U18 and U16's at the one venue, starting early morning and in turn would be saving money on opening two venues. They would also save wages for players on an average reserves competition. The strong country leagues in the state - the Great Southern, Barossa, Hills D1 and the KNT would get many players going there, while the rest of the players would filter through to the SAAFL D1, which has been sharply declining in standard over the last few years, as the top 5 or 6 country leagues have got stronger. Win-Win for everyone. The SANFL clubs which many are claiming poverty, would all be saving huge amount of money each year without the reserves competition. The SANFL clubs could then take from the the 4 top country leagues (Great Southern, Barossa, Hills D1 and KNT) and the SAAFL D1, to top up their league sides. Each SANFL side would have 30 on their list and those not getting a game would be filtered out to the leagues/club that are aligned to them. They would also draw on those leagues/clubs if excessive injuries more than 30. Simple solution and everyone wins
oyster
Rookie
 
Posts: 180
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2015 1:29 am
Has liked: 0 time
Been liked: 20 times

Re: Re: Points System Is Crucifying Country Footy

Postby oyster » Tue Oct 27, 2015 6:50 pm

The boys from the community footy league are all out in force tonight trying in a last ditch effort to convert those 4 or 5 country leagues who who wont play ball with their new salary cap rules. Got to give them 10/10 for persistence but I get the feeling not much will change.
oyster
Rookie
 
Posts: 180
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2015 1:29 am
Has liked: 0 time
Been liked: 20 times

Re: Re: Points System Is Crucifying Country Footy

Postby running defender » Tue Oct 27, 2015 10:55 pm

Any clubs having trouble recruiting players under this new salary cap,
Looks to me the brown paper bag business is going to boom this year.
How much does the zone registra get paid?
He's going to need a lot of petrol tickets chasing brown paper bags flying out car windows
running defender
Rookie
 
 
Posts: 155
Joined: Mon Jan 27, 2014 10:48 pm
Has liked: 0 time
Been liked: 14 times
Grassroots Team: Echunga

Re: Re: Points System Is Crucifying Country Footy

Postby oyster » Tue Oct 27, 2015 11:30 pm

running defender wrote:Any clubs having trouble recruiting players under this new salary cap,
Looks to me the brown paper bag business is going to boom this year.
How much does the zone registra get paid?
He's going to need a lot of petrol tickets chasing brown paper bags flying out car windows



Yes I agree the brown paper bags will be out in force as a way of beating the salary cap across country areas.
I think that free trade should be the only way to go.
BUT
The question I ask is why did your club and your league vote for the salary cap rules if you seem intent on breaking the rules that you voted for?
That makes no sense. I am assuming your are from Echunga from your profile, yet the Hills league have apparently voted yes.
You should have joined the other 4 or 5 leagues from around the state who had the balls to say NO.
I'm confused if people are going to complain about the salary cap or try and find ways to beat the salary cap, yet their clubs and leagues have had the chance to "grow a pair" and vote NO, but didn't. Doesn't add up.
oyster
Rookie
 
Posts: 180
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2015 1:29 am
Has liked: 0 time
Been liked: 20 times

PreviousNext

Board index   Football  Other Footy Leagues  Country Footy

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests

Around the place

Competitions   SANFL Official Site | Country Footy SA | Southern Football League | VFL Footy
Club Forums   Snouts Louts | The Roost | Redlegs Forum |