This world of our's...

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Re: This world of our's...

Postby whufc » Mon Nov 16, 2015 4:43 pm

Q. wrote:Like I said in my very first post, most of the attacks were committed by French nationals. One of the attackers may have taken a route similar to the refugees. You're missing the bigger picture here.

There is a dynamic relationship between Islamic radicalism and xenophobic nationalist philosophy. Knee-jerk reactions like 'close the borders' won't actually make us safer once you begin to understand the anthropogenic drivers of radicalism in our countries.


Im definitely not one for 'close the borders'

BUT

Much like the aftermath to September 11, the reforms, policies and procedures that were put in place in regards to air travel i think similar may need to happen in regards to refugee status.

Whether you. me or anyone else likes to admit it, and whether it was only on 1 occasion, terrorists coming into the country under the disguise of being refugees is just as legitimate terror threat than hi-jacking and flying a plane into a building.
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Re: This world of our's...

Postby Q. » Mon Nov 16, 2015 4:51 pm

I'm certain that the 12,000 odd Syrian refugees we'll be accepting will be adequately screened.
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Re: This world of our's...

Postby whufc » Mon Nov 16, 2015 4:56 pm

Q. wrote:I'm certain that the 12,000 odd Syrian refugees we'll be accepting will be adequately screened.


Hopefully its better than the screening process that enabled Sydney cafe shooter to be granted with political asylum here in Australia

We can only hope, obviously i don't know the extremes of the process but what we do know its that the system European countries are using failed 120 people plus the many other lives that have been lost and affected during this tragedy.
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Re: This world of our's...

Postby Q. » Mon Nov 16, 2015 4:59 pm

whufc wrote:
Q. wrote:I'm certain that the 12,000 odd Syrian refugees we'll be accepting will be adequately screened.


We can only hope, obviously i don't know the extremes of the process but what we do know its that the system European countries are using failed 120 people plus the many other lives that have been lost and affected during this tragedy.


That system wasn't responsible for the attacks so you can't say it failed. You're externalising the issue.
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Re: This world of our's...

Postby whufc » Mon Nov 16, 2015 5:10 pm

Q. wrote:
whufc wrote:
Q. wrote:I'm certain that the 12,000 odd Syrian refugees we'll be accepting will be adequately screened.


We can only hope, obviously i don't know the extremes of the process but what we do know its that the system European countries are using failed 120 people plus the many other lives that have been lost and affected during this tragedy.


That system wasn't responsible for the attacks so you can't say it failed. You're externalising the issue.


Im not sure that you can say that when IS threatened to sneak people through the refugee system to attack countries.

What happened nek minute, one of the terrorists involved had snuck through the system as promised and was part of a major attack at one of the worlds major sporting events.

Neither us will know what his impact was on the planning, execution, involvement etc etc of the attack was.

While there are many other issues im not sure what more you would want to see to see the system fail.

Whether we have a strong multi cultural country and great living conditions for middle eastern refugees isnt going to change the fact that while we are fighting IS they are going to try and use all means including 'fake refugees' to attack our country on home soil.
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Re: This world of our's...

Postby whufc » Mon Nov 16, 2015 5:20 pm

I think that both of us would agree on that in a perfect world the refugees could come into Australia and we would never have to doubt their intention.

Hopefully one day that will be the case, or even better there are no refugees in the world.
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Re: This world of our's...

Postby whufc » Mon Nov 16, 2015 9:47 pm

Now looks like two of the terrorists involved in the Paris attacks passed through Greece on the pretense of being refugees!!!
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Re: This world of our's...

Postby Q. » Mon Nov 16, 2015 10:07 pm

whufc wrote:Now looks like two of the terrorists involved in the Paris attacks passed through Greece on the pretense of being refugees!!!


Got a link?
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Re: This world of our's...

Postby whufc » Mon Nov 16, 2015 10:14 pm

Q. wrote:
whufc wrote:Now looks like two of the terrorists involved in the Paris attacks passed through Greece on the pretense of being refugees!!!


Got a link?


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... ugees.html
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Re: This world of our's...

Postby cracka » Tue Nov 17, 2015 8:46 am

I don't think any male aged between 18-50 should be seeking refugee status anyway. They should be fighting against ISIS for THEIR country. Sh!t their are Kurdish women (some are Grandmothers) who have taken up arms on the frontline.
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Re: This world of our's...

Postby Q. » Tue Nov 17, 2015 9:04 am

whufc wrote:
Q. wrote:
whufc wrote:Now looks like two of the terrorists involved in the Paris attacks passed through Greece on the pretense of being refugees!!!


Got a link?


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... ugees.html


Just a single line of speculation in there.

So far all we have confirmed is that three were Belgian, two were French and one was carrying a counterfeit Syrian passport and believed to have crossed into Greece in October.
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Re: This world of our's...

Postby whufc » Tue Nov 17, 2015 5:11 pm

Saw this on facebook and thought it was an interesting read.

Message from Suleiman, a sunni muslim in Singapore:

I want to thank well-meaning non-Muslims who, in the wake of these attacks, have emphasised that they have been carried out by a small, twisted minority. A terrorist's goal is to sow hatred and discord, and by not giving in, you are defeating their plans.

But I want to say that as a Muslim, I wish that we weren't so quick to emphasise that this has nothing to do with us. While I personally have never killed anyone and none of my friends and family have ever resorted to violence, radicalism has everything to do with Islam. And the failure to address that out of a well-intentioned commitment to tolerance is making the problem worse.

ISIS is a Muslim organisation, and it is an Islamic problem. Let me say it again to be perfectly clear. ISIS is a Muslim organisation, and they are a cancer at the heart of Islam. And the problem will not go away until Muslims confront that.

ISIS attackers scream 'Allah hu'akbar' during their attacks.
ISIS recruits cite Qur'anic verses as justification for the rape and enslavement of women.
ISIS soldiers kill archaeologists, gay men and women, and people who refuse to convert to Islam because they are blasphemers.

There are no Christians in ISIS. There are no Buddhists, Jews, Pagans, Taoists, Houngans, Catholics, Wiccans, Hindus or even Scientologists in ISIS. ISIS is a Muslim organisation and they kill in the name of Islam.

So don't say that ISIS aren't 'true Muslims' or that they are 'not really Muslims'. Like any large organisation, ISIS exists in a spectrum. You have the aimless, restless teenager who never amounted to anything in his life and traveled to Syria because he can't find a job and doesn't know if the Qur'an is to be read from left to right or right to left. But you also have pious professionals, businessmen, and academics who read their Qur'an cover to cover, pray every day, were seduced into radicalism, and truly believe that the Islamic State's goal of conquest is a noble one. The so-called 'Caliph' Abu Bakr Al-Baghdadi has a doctorate in Islamic studies.

So if you feel that Muslims are being oppressed or killed in Muslim countries, I expect you to also be just as outraged by ISIS. Because they have killed more Muslims in Iraq, Syria and Jordan than the entire US army. They have done more damage to the name and reputation of Islam than any Western nation. ISIS is Islam's biggest enemy, not the US, not Israel or France or Germany or the Russians.

We have to own the problem. We have to admit that this is a religious problem, and we need to renew our commitment to a secular country which treats all religions equally. I have believed in the importance of secularism all my life, and with every day that passes that belief grows stronger. Religion is no way to govern a nation. Not any religion, and not any nation.

ISIS is not America's problem, nor the British, nor the French. ISIS is not Syria or Iraq's problem. ISIS is a problem for Muslims. And if you can't admit that, you're not really a good Muslim either
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Re: This world of our's...

Postby Q. » Tue Nov 17, 2015 10:22 pm

Unfortunately, it's not just a problem for Muslims given that the West is very much a target.

And the problem is far more complex than just religion, which is deemed to be a benign motivator, as seen through the massive bodies of analysis conducted by the likes of Scott Atran and Marc Sageman.
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Re: This world of our's...

Postby whufc » Fri Nov 20, 2015 5:55 pm

Q. wrote:
whufc wrote:
Q. wrote:
whufc wrote:Now looks like two of the terrorists involved in the Paris attacks passed through Greece on the pretense of being refugees!!!


Got a link?


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... ugees.html


Just a single line of speculation in there.

So far all we have confirmed is that three were Belgian, two were French and one was carrying a counterfeit Syrian passport and believed to have crossed into Greece in October.


Is this enough to be concerned yet.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... -live.html
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Re: This world of our's...

Postby Q. » Fri Nov 20, 2015 6:23 pm

whufc wrote:
Q. wrote:
whufc wrote:
Q. wrote:[quote="whufc"]Now looks like two of the terrorists involved in the Paris attacks passed through Greece on the pretense of being refugees!!!


Got a link?


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... ugees.html


Just a single line of speculation in there.

So far all we have confirmed is that three were Belgian, two were French and one was carrying a counterfeit Syrian passport and believed to have crossed into Greece in October.


Is this enough to be concerned yet.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... -live.html[/quote]
It highlights the major security flaws in the Schengen agreement, which has less to do with refugees and more to do with existing EU passport holders.

"Europe’s interior ministers are expected to agree a radical security crackdown on the external borders of the Schengen zone at a major summit in Brussels on Friday."
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