Things that give you the sh1ts

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Re: Things that give you the sh1ts

Postby nuggety goodness » Mon Jan 11, 2016 2:20 pm

Q. wrote:
nuggety goodness wrote:This kind of thing solidifies in my mind that so much of what we call 'mental health issues' is a spiritual issue.


I think you're a little confused and I believe it's the other way around. Spirituality is linked to mental deficiency.

Wow.
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Re: Things that give you the sh1ts

Postby Booney » Mon Jan 11, 2016 2:26 pm

Magellan wrote:
nuggety goodness wrote:So if you were god booney what would you do?

There's an inherent assumption in the question that only someone who believes in a god could answer, and I get the impression that's a bridge too far for booney. And I think that's where difference lies.


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Re: Things that give you the sh1ts

Postby Magellan » Mon Jan 11, 2016 2:32 pm

nuggety goodness wrote:
Magellan wrote:
nuggety goodness wrote:So if you were god booney what would you do?

There's an inherent assumption in the question that only someone who believes in a god could answer, and I get the impression that's a bridge too far for booney. And I think that's where difference lies.

But that assumption is already made because booney thinks he is a right 4 star...

The assumption in your question was that there is a god, fullstop. If you adopt a non-believing point of view, which I understand booney holds, then I don't think you're question can be answered.

To be honest, I'm not sure this forum's going to resolve this age-old existential issue that people have rusted-on views of, on both sides, nor answer why a 4 year old dies of disease. You can rely on empirical evidence, or faith, or bits of both, whatever. No-one's come back from the other side, so no-one really knows who's pulling the strings.

In these times I think it's less about the why and and more about the how/response for those grieving.
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Re: Things that give you the sh1ts

Postby bennymacca » Mon Jan 11, 2016 2:33 pm

How much sinning does a 4 year old do?

Or is it gods way of teaching his parents a lesson for their sins?
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Re: Things that give you the sh1ts

Postby HH3 » Mon Jan 11, 2016 2:35 pm

NG, you have kids. How would you feel if they got taken by disease?

Would you accept that as ok......coz Jeebus?
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Re: Things that give you the sh1ts

Postby Zelezny Chucks » Mon Jan 11, 2016 2:41 pm

nuggety goodness wrote:
Booney wrote:
Magellan wrote:
Booney wrote:When a former team mates son, 4, passes away after a year 1/2 long fight with leukodystrophy overnight you'll have trouble convincing me any God is anything more than a mean, rotten minded, sinister ****.


Sad news, Booney. I adopt the same view. Stephen Fry summed it up (as only he can), when asked what he would say to God if he died and went to heaven.

I’d say, bone cancer in children? What’s that about? How dare You? How dare You create a world in which there is such misery that is not our fault? It’s not right, it’s utterly, utterly evil.

Why should I respect a capricious, mean-minded, stupid God that creates a world that is so full of injustice and pain?


I've been awake since 3am. Those words, of Fry, have been ringing in my ears since I got the news.

Terrible, terrible injustice that can't be explained away as anything but absolute horror. If someone "created" this horror, **** them.

That is extremely sad and I'm sure there are no words that can alleviate the grief. All i can say is that at least his suffering is over and i fully believe that God has taken him home.

When it comes to blaming God for the way the world is i think that's a bit ironic in the first instance but also harsh.

Blaming God for these kinds of things is the easy way out, 'why would God allow such tragedy and pain?' Etc etc... but if you don't believe how can it be His fault?

Now let's assume then that you do believe and you still have the opinion that the way the world is is His fault. While i won't be able to explain everything and the defence may not seem solid enough for many of you it is what it is.

Start with a simple question. Are you responsible for the way your grandchildren behave? If they are to choose to commit crime and be delinquent's, how much of that is your fault. While i agree you can attempt to influence them for a more positive lifestyle they will choose regardless and you cannot be held responsible for the decisions they make.

When it comes to disease and the likes it's a bit different. What God created was perfect but when we (mankind) chose sin instead of Him it released death into the world. And we still constantly choose to do what we want instead of what He wants. When we chose to disobey there were consequences for that, some of those consequences we feel today because of what our fathers and grandfathers and generations of people before us have done. I deal with things that are not directly my fault, that's life, but how dare i point the finger at God? Who am i but a vapour, a speck on the earth. How can i question Him?


It's just like when we as parents allow things to happen to our kids, we don't bail them out of everything and every situation and we let them deal with some of the consequences of their actions. Call it tough love.

God allows things like this in people's lives in the hope they would turn to Him for comfort and guidance, unfortunately we use it as an attempt to lash out and blame Him.

We all have an appointment and we can't escape that. Some go earlier than others and we can't explain it most of the time. I pray that the family and loved ones can find peace in this time of turmoil.


So you are suggesting we aren't responsible for the actions of others, that we have some control over, in one instance but then will be punished for the actions of others, that we have absolutely no control over, in the following statement?

I feel like I have seen contradictory statements like this before...

FWIW I don't think faith on it's own is a problem, it is Blind Faith that is a cause, IMO, of a lot of the worlds current problems.
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Re: Things that give you the sh1ts

Postby nuggety goodness » Mon Jan 11, 2016 3:13 pm

[quote="Zelezny ]

So you are suggesting we aren't responsible for the actions of others, that we have some control over, in one instance but then will be punished for the actions of others, that we have absolutely no control over, in the following statement?

I feel like I have seen contradictory statements like this before...

FWIW I don't think faith on it's own is a problem, it is Blind Faith that is a cause, IMO, of a lot of the worlds current problems.[/quote]

I don't think we are being punished to start with...

God cannot be held responsible for our actions and decisions just the same as we cannot be held responsible for our children or grandchildren's decisions let alone anyone else.

The analogy is simple. what if your mum took drugs while she was pregnant and you ended up with some form of addiction because of it? You would have to deal with something not of your doing, it's not your fault. We are now dealing with the consequences of generations living aeay from God and society in general rejecting Him.

As a Christian i still deal with sickness and death and all the same things you do not because I'm doing the wrong thing, but because the ball is already rolling and i can't stop it.

I think the worlds problems stem from much more than 'blind faith'. living for self and so many making bad decisions is a start.
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Re: Things that give you the sh1ts

Postby Q. » Mon Jan 11, 2016 3:24 pm

nuggety goodness wrote: We are now dealing with the consequences of generations living aeay from God and society in general rejecting Him.


What are these consequences?
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Re: Things that give you the sh1ts

Postby am Bays » Mon Jan 11, 2016 3:26 pm

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Let that be a lesson to you Port, no one beats the Bays five times in a row in a GF and gets away with it!!!
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Re: Things that give you the sh1ts

Postby nuggety goodness » Mon Jan 11, 2016 3:29 pm

Q. wrote:
nuggety goodness wrote: We are now dealing with the consequences of generations living aeay from God and society in general rejecting Him.


What are these consequences?

General delinquency, disrespect, lack of authority in people's lives. Family unit breakdown, fatherless children. It goes on and on.

If people actually lived the way that Jesus said then all of this wouldn't be happening. But because we think we know better, we reject His ways and wonder why life sucks!
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Re: Things that give you the sh1ts

Postby Zelezny Chucks » Mon Jan 11, 2016 3:30 pm

Living for self and making bad decisions may affect the individual and those directly around them but it isn't going to adversely affect the world. Using the words "disobey, sin and consequences" has negative connotations. You may not have said punishment but any logical* person will draw this conclusion.

People blindly believing they are right about something that CANNOT BE PROVEN and joining others with this view to impose their will on others is a huge problem.

Before you assume I am talking exclusively about ISIS/Al- Qaeda etc, you can go back throughout history and look at any number of religions that have started "Holy Wars" and claimed they are doing the work of God.

*I am aware logic and religion are not friends.
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Re: Things that give you the sh1ts

Postby Q. » Mon Jan 11, 2016 3:33 pm

nuggety goodness wrote:
Q. wrote:
nuggety goodness wrote: We are now dealing with the consequences of generations living aeay from God and society in general rejecting Him.


What are these consequences?

General delinquency, disrespect, lack of authority in people's lives. Family unit breakdown, fatherless children. It goes on and on.


All of which has existed since forever.
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Re: Things that give you the sh1ts

Postby nuggety goodness » Mon Jan 11, 2016 3:38 pm

Q. wrote:
nuggety goodness wrote:
Q. wrote:
nuggety goodness wrote: We are now dealing with the consequences of generations living aeay from God and society in general rejecting Him.


What are these consequences?

General delinquency, disrespect, lack of authority in people's lives. Family unit breakdown, fatherless children. It goes on and on.


All of which has existed since forever.

Yep, godlesness abounds because we were given a choice and the majority choose to live without God.
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Re: Things that give you the sh1ts

Postby HH3 » Mon Jan 11, 2016 3:44 pm

Is anyone else astounded that adults actually believe this crap?
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Re: Things that give you the sh1ts

Postby Booney » Mon Jan 11, 2016 3:49 pm

HH3 wrote:Is anyone else astounded that adults actually believe this crap?


Now and forever more, mate. Now and forever more.
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Re: Things that give you the sh1ts

Postby Wedgie » Mon Jan 11, 2016 3:55 pm

Back on topic, grown adults that believe in fairy stories shits me to tears.
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Re: Things that give you the sh1ts

Postby Zelezny Chucks » Mon Jan 11, 2016 3:57 pm

nuggety goodness wrote:Yep, godlesness abounds because we were given a choice and the majority choose to live without God.


So who are you to say that you are right and everyone who believes differently is wrong?

What evidence do you have to prove that your choice is unequivocally the correct choice?
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Things that give you the sh1ts

Postby bennymacca » Mon Jan 11, 2016 4:06 pm

nuggety goodness wrote:Yep, godlesness abounds because we were given a choice and the majority choose to live without God.


84% of the world believe in the worlds top 5 religions

Is it the rest of us that cause all of the worlds ills?
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Re: Things that give you the sh1ts

Postby Booney » Mon Jan 11, 2016 4:07 pm

nuggety goodness wrote:Yep, godlesness abounds because we were given a choice and the majority choose to live without God.


Majority rules then. All those in favor?
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Re: Things that give you the sh1ts

Postby nuggety goodness » Mon Jan 11, 2016 4:08 pm

Zelezny Chucks wrote:
nuggety goodness wrote:Yep, godlesness abounds because we were given a choice and the majority choose to live without God.


So who are you to say that you are right and everyone who believes differently is wrong?

What evidence do you have to prove that your choice is unequivocally the correct choice?

I can say it becasue Its not my opinion. It's not about what i think, it is what God thinks is right and wrong. Because we have different standards of what is wrong and what is right. I will make a stand for what is right in Gods eyes.

The proof is in the pudding. The evidence of God being the right choice is experienced in life. There is no way words can convince someone.

Its like this, I could tell you or how awesome my skydive was but inless you have done it yourself you will never understand. I can tell you of all the things that God has done in my life but unless you experience it yourself, you won't know..
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