AFL teams to stay, clubs to receive $250k this year - Olsen

[therisingblues]

Look at what I quoted you saying. The essence is the same. Attacking people for their futility of opposing the reserves; what is it that actually boils down to if not; "Give it up guys, you've lost, just put up with it"?

My answer at the moment is nothing more than get the word out that the majority are not happy with the reserves situation. I find most AFL types have no knowledge of how genuine followers of the SANFL feel about this. Using comparisons with their own competition should help to bring the message home. I note that there are many in the media preaching the goodness of having the reserves in the SANFL, a lot of people that try to voice opposition on air find themselves talked over, getting dumped, or refused. I reckon you'd need to be pretty well prepared with your facts to give them a run on the radio. They usually will just quote the last game where the Ravens got an above average crowd then say, "Yeah thanks Jonno, next caller!" There have been a few exceptions, LPH being one, but for most of us this board is our forum to voice discontent.

If you're going to oppose something then come up with an alternative, come up with the fix, don't just moan about it not being what you want it to be. Propose a fix. What have you proposed, more moaning?

"AFL followers" don't know about the SANFL discontent as they don't give a flying, that's why the SANFL is where it is.

Clearly the SANFL are set on having the AFL reserves sides in the competition, they don't believe they can afford to lose them. Meanwhile common sense is in the other room and TV rights for a shit deal are costing huge amounts.

Booney, the day I stop moaning on here about it, will be the day I've given up on the league altogether.you might have noticed that the only time this board lights up these days is in response to crap media statements made in favour of the reserves issue or similar. Obviously the last thing left.for many people in the face of this blatant injustice, is moaning about it. Truth is we can't think about our once great comp.without noticing there's two pretend sides in it.
I also don't take it as a given that the reserves will never leave. What Olsen has offered is just fluff. Weasel words and the like. Best league, envy of Australia, reserves are here for good, without a word on why or how. No substance, just political bullshit aimed at shutting up opponents. We must therefore be achieving something if he wants us to shut up about it. I for one will continue to whinge and moan, and state my opposition. It helps clean my soul.
If someone is able to explain how the current situation is actually a greater good than harm, I might change my tune. But thus far no organization has addressed the negatives while explaining how the good outweighs them. All we get is meaningless weasel words designed to dodge the real issues.

[Big Phil]

I can't remember the last time my SANFL team was broadcast on the radio.
Sad but fact it is poor exposure for my club and the competition generally.
The comp is dying slowly.

Your game in Round 9 was covered by LifeFM, back in late May...

Yours, and all other clubs, get exposure every week with their game being broadcast in some capacity...

The comp isn't dying slowly, it's just not what it used to be...

[Dogs72]

If the people in charge can't see it now, at what point will the spiral end and the competition be saved? What will be left to save?

Most can.

So what's the answer, which, at this point, needs to be better than the $250k P.A currently on offer?

If the AFL arse kissers won't kick the reserves out then I think part of the answer is;

1) the SANFL clubs each receive $150,000 license fee from the afl reserves (as per what the wa sides pay, though there's also an additional "cash management amount" of $120,000 they receive). Part of this payment really is just lost revenue from their members getting in for free.

2) games against the afl players don't count for premiership points or magarey votes. If they're concerned about SANFL sides not playing "to the line", they can put in $30k prize money each (60k total) for the winner of the no integrity cup. Could even instruct SANFL clubs they have to cap the amount of team changes from the previous week to six.
Playing to the line or being competitive shouldn't be an issue, even though Heath Younie admitted last year the crows didn't always play to win.

3) for the finals period if either afl team make it, they can have an agreement to play each other or pay an SANFL side.

4) if they don't like it or they perceive it's not viable they can join the amateur league or vfl and we get our SANFL back, to market and program properly.

5) they can pay for the television coverage (as they'd promised), and if that means they're always featured so be it, no big deal. There's another $300,000 freed up in the SANFL coffers.

Under the above the SANFL retains its integrity and the afl teams get their practice games.
Why not?

[Hazydog]

So what's your answer? ( If you say "kick them out" it's clearly not on the agenda short term. )

1. Hold Olsen accountable to his original stipulation that both AFL Reserves teams had to operate under the same model. That would start by making Port play all games away, handing each true SANFL club an additional home game.
2. Either introduce a Crows Reserves Reserves team or remove Ports "Acadamy" team. (Prefer 2nd option)
3. Ensure top ups like Summerton (most highly paid non AFL player in the SANFL) are not allowed - and set much stricter criteria for top ups to ensure any player with aspirations to play SANFL is better rewarded at an SANFL club.

There's a start Booney - thoughts??

[Aerie]

I don't know how they expect a vibrant SANFL competition with the AFL Reserves teams in. The passion is lost in the outer. When you get told enough times that you're following a 2nd tier league whose aim is to be 2nd best, you start to believe it. Those who spent their hard earned and stood in the outer on a wet day wanted to watch their club be the best in the SANFL. It didn't matter about being 2nd best. No one remembers who is 2nd best.

The difference between then and now is stark:
- AFL at Adelaide Oval is a huge success (perhaps more so than expected)
- Crows and Port are flying financially (more so than expected)
- Reserves teams have been good for the AFL clubs (as expected)
- The Channel 7 deal is a flop considering $1m has to be spent (not what was meant to happen)
- SANFL clubs are facing extinction and losing money more than ever (not what was meant to happen)
- Port Magpies are losing crowds (as expected)
- Crows Reserves are hardly supported (not what was meant to happen)

So the benefits of the AFL Reserves teams coming in to the SANFL are minimal. It has been a costly exercise. And Olsen is still saying the same crap - taking up the slack of Davies and Trigg who departed before the mess they helped create even had its first bounce.

The alternative I suggested back then is still a possibility IMO. It possibly makes more sense now with the AFL zoning being introduced. What isn't known is how much damage has already been done to the SANFL and whether those that have left (in their thousands) would come back to regularly supporting their SANFL club.

That was to field AFL Reserves teams in the VFL with Port and Crows working closely with the SANFL clubs to use players in their first two years out of the SANFL U18 system as top up players and keeping them aligned with their SANFL club. Not that costly, surely. Not compared to the cost of what has happened to the SANFL and what will happen to the SANFL if this commission continues down the path it has created.

You integrate football in SA from grass roots all the way through to AFL. You add your bits and pieces Reserves teams to a bits and pieces league that is the VFL - competing on the same page as at least 10 other AFL clubs. You have an SANFL competition that is fair and can go at its own pace. You know that the team you are supporting is trying to be the best in the SANFL by beating other teams that are trying to be the best in the SANFL. Because being 2nd best has never mattered.

[Pseudo]

I also don't take it as a given that the reserves will never leave.

^ this. The time will come when the interlopers will want to leave of their own accord. Maybe the eastern league will set up its own sanctioned reserves comp, maybe the interlopers will see a better opportunity elsewhere, maybe something else. Does anyone think that either club will wait until the 15 year agreement expires before it pulls up stumps and leaves? Does anyone suffer the illusion that the SANFL has the wherewithal to stop them? The time will come when they are gone. Let us hope it is sooner rather than later.

[zipzap]

However, as the SANFL takes on the challenge of managing its fixture around the AFL program, Olsen did warn the clubs against blaming the Adelaide Oval phenomenon for disappointing crowd figures at state league games in Adelaide’s suburbia.

“Rather than blame Adelaide Oval for drawing fans to the AFL games, we need to embrace the Oval - more so when 75 per cent of the revenue the Oval generates for the SANFL goes to game development,” in what is now a serious business.”

Blaming Adelaide Oval? Dude we have a hundred plus page thread screaming that the reason for falling crowds is the inclusion of reserves teams in the competition. AREN'T YOU LISTENING?

OMG that was such a politician's play wasn't it? Utter creep.

[Booney]

So what's your answer? ( If you say "kick them out" it's clearly not on the agenda short term. )

1. Hold Olsen accountable to his original stipulation that both AFL Reserves teams had to operate under the same model. That would start by making Port play all games away, handing each true SANFL club an additional home game.
2. Either introduce a Crows Reserves Reserves team or remove Ports "Acadamy" team. (Prefer 2nd option)
3. Ensure top ups like Summerton (most highly paid non AFL player in the SANFL) are not allowed - and set much stricter criteria for top ups to ensure any player with aspirations to play SANFL is better rewarded at an SANFL club.

There's a start Booney - thoughts??

Some good ideas.

For some time I've said Adelaide should have a reserves team, at the time of re-zoning Adelaide should have got half of Ports metro and country zones, as they need less they get less in terms of access to "top ups". Adelaide play home games at Thebarton, Set them up, as close to anyway, a 10th club. Then there can be limits on AFL listed at league level, then the draw becomes less muddied with 10 league and 9 reserves sides as now.

I agree on the top ups, Summerton is and has been a class act for many years, getting to have him as a top up when Adelaide's captain is playing bush whacker league is all up the shit. No doubt.

As for holding Olsen and co. to account, who does? The people currently weighing up how important $250,000 P.A is?

[Hazydog]

So what's your answer? ( If you say "kick them out" it's clearly not on the agenda short term. )

1. Hold Olsen accountable to his original stipulation that both AFL Reserves teams had to operate under the same model. That would start by making Port play all games away, handing each true SANFL club an additional home game.
2. Either introduce a Crows Reserves Reserves team or remove Ports "Acadamy" team. (Prefer 2nd option)
3. Ensure top ups like Summerton (most highly paid non AFL player in the SANFL) are not allowed - and set much stricter criteria for top ups to ensure any player with aspirations to play SANFL is better rewarded at an SANFL club.

There's a start Booney - thoughts??

Some good ideas.

For some time I've said Adelaide should have a reserves team, at the time of re-zoning Adelaide should have got half of Ports metro and country zones, as they need less they get less in terms of access to "top ups". Adelaide play home games at Thebarton, Set them up, as close to anyway, a 10th club. Then there can be limits on AFL listed at league level, then the draw becomes less muddied with 10 league and 9 reserves sides as now.

I agree on the top ups, Summerton is and has been a class act for many years, getting to have him as a top up when Adelaide's captain is playing bush whacker league is all up the shit. No doubt.

As for holding Olsen and co. to account, who does? The people currently weighing up how important $250,000 P.A is?

Ok - We've found common ground. Good Start

Not sure I'm happy with a "Ravens" Reserve side. Agreed it solves some issues - but its another 20-30 players made unavailable to other SANFL clubs.

Keeping Olsen/Commission accountable re their initial stipulation that both models had to be the same shouldn't be associated with the drip payments the clubs are receiving from the sale of Footy Park. The payments were always going to happen regardless of whether the AFL Teams entered into the SANFL.

I just don't get how you can set criteria and then completely ignore it when it isn't convenient without losing all credibility. (Unless your a politician.... hmm, hang on....)

[whufc]

RIP SANFL!!! Thanks for the memories!!

What a sad world we live in

[Pseudo]

I just don't get how you can set criteria and then completely ignore it when it isn't convenient without losing all credibility. (Unless your a politician.... hmm, hang on....)

[UK Fan]

Step 1 - Raise SANFL reserves sides admission to $300k per year for each SANFL club up from $50k. Using vfl and wafl club admin fees as evidence for raise.

Step 2 - inform crows I need An extra $2mill a year for you to field an afl reserves side($2.4 mill instead of $400k a year)in SANFL via revaluation.

Step 3 - offer crows option that if THEY raise a motion to have port magpies licence disbanded and power reserves fc admitted instead. Purely so the clubs can have equally alligned SANFL structures. SANFL will support it. This will look to save AFC $1.2 mill a year for SANFL reserves as it only fair the fee be halfed.

Step 4 - Crows logically looking to save $1.2 mill a year agree to raise motion.

Step 5 - advise port of crows motion and your initial support to it. Point out this will now cost port an extra $1.2 MILL a year plus they wear power guernseys and never prison Bars again and have no development squad via this motion. Good luck KT informing the faithful on that one.

Step 5- Offer PAFC alternative of saving $1.2 MILL a year, keeping prison bars, continue as port magpies. If they Raise a motion about joining SANFL reserves league. Pay them $250k a year if they agree so they can reform junior set up and even access to old recruiting grounds as a sweetener.

Step 6 - wait for ports agreeance on making $250k instead having pay $1.2 mill they don't have.

Step 7 - advise crows you are now in the SANFL reserves.


Not hard.


Easy way to beat afl clubs.

Divide and conquer.

[csbowes]

I used to be one of those who religiously posted on here.

Now I don't.

I admire people's spirit but in the end we only represent 10-20% of the SANFL supporter base. Frankly the other 80% just don't care what the clubs do and this is evident by the sheep like behaviour at AGMs.

The acceptance of any decision. No matter how dumb.

Plus we don't run for the board ourselves so are we really doing anything? My club ignores me and it can because it has 3,000 other members who blissfully go along with the flow, so who cares what I think?

It'll be an amateur league eventually and all the tools who made the wrong decisions will shrug their shoulders, make excuses and move on to something else they think they're good at. No one will care.

[Reddeer]

I used to be one of those who religiously posted on here.

Now I don't.

I admire people's spirit but in the end we only represent 10-20% of the SANFL supporter base. Frankly the other 80% just don't care what the clubs do and this is evident by the sheep like behaviour at AGMs.

The acceptance of any decision. No matter how dumb.

Plus we don't run for the board ourselves so are we really doing anything? My club ignores me and it can because it has 3,000 other members who blissfully go along with the flow, so who cares what I think?

It'll be an amateur league eventually and all the tools who made the wrong decisions will shrug their shoulders, make excuses and move on to something else they think they're good at. No one will care.

Tells it exactly as it is, sadly

[csbowes]

I wish it wasn't, but yes sadly it is reality.

I'm not even convinced that if all clubs took a members vote that members would vote against the Crows/Power teams.

People just have a "don't make waves, it'll all work out" attitude.

Plus the clubs never work together, so what hope is there, they only care about themselves. The 6-2 vote showed that, they should have met separately, argued it out and voted 8-0 for or against, but there's no cohesion.

[JK]

I used to be one of those who religiously posted on here.

Now I don't.

I admire people's spirit but in the end we only represent 10-20% of the SANFL supporter base. Frankly the other 80% just don't care what the clubs do and this is evident by the sheep like behaviour at AGMs.

The acceptance of any decision. No matter how dumb.

Plus we don't run for the board ourselves so are we really doing anything? My club ignores me and it can because it has 3,000 other members who blissfully go along with the flow, so who cares what I think?

It'll be an amateur league eventually and all the tools who made the wrong decisions will shrug their shoulders, make excuses and move on to something else they think they're good at. No one will care.

Well said mate. Couldn't bring myself to "Like" the post, but it's bang on imho.

[Booney]

I used to be one of those who religiously posted on here.

Now I don't.

I admire people's spirit but in the end we only represent 10-20% of the SANFL supporter base. Frankly the other 80% just don't care what the clubs do and this is evident by the sheep like behaviour at AGMs.

The acceptance of any decision. No matter how dumb.

Plus we don't run for the board ourselves so are we really doing anything? My club ignores me and it can because it has 3,000 other members who blissfully go along with the flow, so who cares what I think?

It'll be an amateur league eventually and all the tools who made the wrong decisions will shrug their shoulders, make excuses and move on to something else they think they're good at. No one will care.

It's a comment worth noting. Whilst discussion on any forum or with the mates is one thing, actively seeking to change the situation is another.

[JK]

I used to be one of those who religiously posted on here.

Now I don't.

I admire people's spirit but in the end we only represent 10-20% of the SANFL supporter base. Frankly the other 80% just don't care what the clubs do and this is evident by the sheep like behaviour at AGMs.

The acceptance of any decision. No matter how dumb.

Plus we don't run for the board ourselves so are we really doing anything? My club ignores me and it can because it has 3,000 other members who blissfully go along with the flow, so who cares what I think?

It'll be an amateur league eventually and all the tools who made the wrong decisions will shrug their shoulders, make excuses and move on to something else they think they're good at. No one will care.

It's a comment worth noting. Whilst discussion on any forum or with the mates is one thing, actively seeking to change the situation is another.

Good luck trying to get on as an average Joe - Maybe it's just my club, but they circle the wagons pretty well to make sure the members on the board are pretty much those they want to be there.

[Magpies96]

The SANFL is not what it use to be, but the admission price does not reflect this.
Other than die in the wool club fans, who would pay $14 when you can go to Amateur League for free? Standard is pretty much the same, and has a better atmosphere.

I personally hope both AFL clubs leave and join a national Reserves comp. But if you think that will save the SANFL you are dreaming.

[mighty_tiger_79]

The SANFL is not what it use to be, but the admission price does not reflect this.
Other than die in the wool club fans, who would pay $14 when you can go to Amateur League for free? Standard is pretty much the same, and has a better atmosphere.

I personally hope both AFL clubs leave and join a national Reserves comp. But if you think that will save the SANFL you are dreaming.

what will save the SANFL, is having no AFL reserve teams in it.
cheaper admission prices - $10
more double headers
more night games during the early part of the season when the weather is more suitable.
not being used by the AFL as a competition to 'test' rules....
become an alternate competition to the AFL
The SANFL to actually do some promotional work on the competition.
The SANFL to keep up with the broadcast streaming of matches, via youtube etc.
The SANFL to find a broadcaster who will be more obliging in telecasting the product without being paid to do it, and if not, then invest in technology to use youtube on a more broader scale

and there are plenty of other ideas that the SANFL can do to promote a competition without the AFL sides.


ive said it from the beginning that the CROWS should have been forced to set up a whole club, all the way down to juniors, like the other SANFL clubs, but then this never happened, it was only a half-arsed effort really.
should be all or nothing.
however seeing how they really only use matches as practice, and winning isn't everything to them, it really does make a mockery of it all.

but scoring is up.....