The never ending No AFL in the SANFL whinge thread

[Kahuna]

Here's the story for those who refuse to pay to line the pockets of Rupert Murdoch:

Thanks Magellan

[tipper]

ADELAIDE’S success this season was a byproduct of an unusually small injury list at AFL level. Even then, the Crows reserves did not make a top-three finish in the SANFL.

Losing a prelim final usually means you come third.

shhh. dont let the truth get in the way of a good bit of revisionist history

[Pseudo]

Crows football chief Phil Harper told The Advertiser a cap on AFL-listed players in the SANFL went against the very purpose of its reserves team.

Having foreign reserve teams in the SANFL goes against the very purpose of the SANFL. If cross-purposes can be introduced once, then I'm sure they can be introduced a second time.

The SANFL executive also is concern introducing a cap on the Crows and Power reserves would hurt the competitiveness of these teams.
“If they are relegated to the bottom two or three teams in the SANFL is this good for the competition?” Kelly said. “The review will look at the evidence we have gathered after three years. There is no pre-determined end result with this review.”

This is a tacit admission that the composition of the garbage teams does indeed affect their results - and thereby perturbs the entire SANFL season. This is exactly the reason that the clubs are calling for a cap at the present time. This is exactly the reason that none of the dinkum SANFL fans want them in the league in any capacity. Kelly's observation adds support to the call for a cap, and to the long-term view of getting rid of the garbage teams completely.

[Magellan]

The thing is that, based purely on the evidence from the last three years, Rooch is right. The two AFL reserves teams haven't dominated the comp, on average. This is why the cap will probably be rejected. Plus, they're everyone's favourite, right? Can't disappoint the state's favourite team. TRB's point is well made, the squealing from West Lakes will start before you can say "Stephen Trigg is a cheat" if this proposal gains any momentum. We saw the Crows' propaganda machine led by Riccuito swing into full gear straight after the elimination final, desperate to quell the steadily bubbling unease. I'm surprised they didn't drop leaflets from the air.

There's an inherent problem at looking solely at evidence and facts as Rooch has, without highlighting individual areas of concern or incorporating an element of forecasting. You keep going along on the assumption everything is OK until things turn to shit, and then it's too late to undo it. That's the problem faced by the SANFL - they have sniff of trouble now, which could lead to further damage, but once the real damage is done in a decade they won't be able to wind things back.

You know, in the world of environmental management they have an interesting approach called the 'precautionary principle'. Those in charge assume that a project to be implemented will cause damage to something of significance, and the onus is on the person proposing it to demonstrate its not going to **** things up, rather than objectors having to demonstrate that it's inappropriate. That way, pre-emptive measures can be taken to prevent likely issues. Once you wipe out a tropical rain forest, for example, you can never get it back.

The SANFL is also a thing of significance. It's a pity the powers that be three years ago didn't have the foresight to protect our comp with a similar approach, as opposed to the traditional 'she'll be right' or 'suck it and see' philosophy. A philosophy which, by the way, suits the agendas of the AFL teams with no genuine interest in the broader health of the comp apart from their ability to exploit advantages from it. And a philosophy which fails to put a value on the cultural and historical importance of the comp, not to mention its integrity.

Of course, we all know why and how this has transpired. Decision-making and politics go hand in hand, and negotiations never occur on equal footing. Will this happen again re: the capping proposal? I just hope the SANFL clubs hold the line and focus on the future threats to the comp caused by the AFL sides' uncapped strength. However, past experience does not fill me with confidence.

[heater31]

A cap would probably do 2 things.

Provide week in week out consistency for the 2 AFL Reserve teams, therefore preventing 1 week 21 professionals vs 21 part timers and the next losing 4 or 5 to have 16 professional v 21 part-time.

Secondly it influences those professional selected to have a mind set to perform for their 'team' to be competitive.

[am Bays]

To me the biggest issue is not the cap it's the use of over age (>23) senior players an ex AFL listed players.

Whilst with teh crows, this year it is a moot point (Carey is a Dud) Reynolds and Summerton should not be playing for Port. Nor should have Callinan in the past for the Crows

The reserves are there to develop their AFL players in terms of skills, games style and leadership. They shouldn't need ex AFL players or overage players to do that.

[Ronnie]

Do a complete review and start holding the Crows and Power to their promises. Crows in particular were talking of pre game promotions and clinics, people through the gate, extended media etc. How's all that going????????? I have no real confidence of any changes, and if any are seriously looked at, then the Crows PR machine will swing into gear, they'll threaten to leave, and Roo and co in the media will crank it up, knowing they have a massive advantage. Meanwhile the 19th man will spend little or no time reflecting on why they are one of the most over exposed, over hyped, sporting franchises in the country which is next in line with Richmond as far as Grand Final no show's is concerned.

[Panther Pack]

To me the biggest issue is not the cap it's the use of over age (>23) senior players an ex AFL listed players.

Whilst with teh crows, this year it is a moot point (Carey is a Dud) Reynolds and Summerton should not be playing for Port. Nor should have Callinan in the past for the Crows

The reserves are there to develop their AFL players in terms of skills, games style and leadership. They shouldn't need ex AFL players or overage players to do that.

This is a very good point and it is something the SANFL should be using as part of the negotiation!!!

[Panther Pack]

Also another point why was Crows members allowed into SANFL finals for free but SANFL club members had to pay?

All clubs members should be equal if we have to pay so should Crows members!!!!!

[Dutchy]

To me the biggest issue is not the cap it's the use of over age (>23) senior players an ex AFL listed players.

Whilst with teh crows, this year it is a moot point (Carey is a Dud) Reynolds and Summerton should not be playing for Port. Nor should have Callinan in the past for the Crows

The reserves are there to develop their AFL players in terms of skills, games style and leadership. They shouldn't need ex AFL players or overage players to do that.

Raises an interesting point, if Callinan was playing this year would have he been dropped for the finals? Despite being the reason they got so far?

The whole thing is a farce, their competitiveness relies solely on their AFL injury list so it is pure luck when your team plays them and also it gifts guys SANFL games they don't deserve or haven't earned them an...here is the opportunity to send them interstate, take it!!!

[mighty hounds]

Also another point why was Crows members allowed into SANFL finals for free but SANFL club members had to pay?

All clubs members should be equal if we have to pay so should Crows members!!!!!

Wasn't access only for the Western Stand though? That ticket for crows and power is the equilvent to the Adelaide Oval membership except you can't use it for both clubs so I guess the same perks applied.

[Panther Pack]

Also another point why was Crows members allowed into SANFL finals for free but SANFL club members had to pay?

All clubs members should be equal if we have to pay so should Crows members!!!!!

Wasn't access only for the Western Stand though? That ticket for crows and power is the equilvent to the Adelaide Oval membership except you can't use it for both clubs so I guess the same perks applied.

People could sit wherever they wanted they weren't checking tickets inside the ground, I was over in the western stand for a while and payed the $15 to get in.

My point is though why does 1 clubs members get access to finals for free and other clubs members don't? Surely it should be same rules for all members competing in SANFL finals!!!

[StrayDog]

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/sport/afl/teams/adelaide/adelaide-crows-reserves-team-may-be-forced-to-withdraw-from-sanfl-competition/news-story/58d9f2cae8f1db310846799342b5332a

Don't let the door hit you on the way out!!!!

"NO State league premiership has been won by an AFL reserves team"

Ummm, Peel and GWS?

Footscray this year and in 2014.

I realise the context of the story was, conveniently, the past three years and relating to the SANFL, but perhaps worth mentioning Geelong's three VFL premierships - including 2002, three seasons after the AFL reserves competition was disbanded.

[Magellan]

Also another point why was Crows members allowed into SANFL finals for free but SANFL club members had to pay?

All clubs members should be equal if we have to pay so should Crows members!!!!!

Wasn't access only for the Western Stand though? That ticket for crows and power is the equilvent to the Adelaide Oval membership except you can't use it for both clubs so I guess the same perks applied.

People could sit wherever they wanted they weren't checking tickets inside the ground, I was over in the western stand for a while and payed the $15 to get in.

My point is though why does 1 clubs members get access to finals for free and other clubs members don't? Surely it should be same rules for all members competing in SANFL finals!!!

It's a desperate attempt to manufacture a crowd. The underlying presumption is that they can't be bothered coming so you have to make it free to entice them. The thing is that even with a freebie they can' t be ****** coming along, and those that do are half interested at best, which demonstrates that from an attendance and atmosphere point of view the current model is rooted. So you might as well make them pay, at least someone's getting something out of it on match day.

[mighty hounds]

Also another point why was Crows members allowed into SANFL finals for free but SANFL club members had to pay?

All clubs members should be equal if we have to pay so should Crows members!!!!!

Wasn't access only for the Western Stand though? That ticket for crows and power is the equilvent to the Adelaide Oval membership except you can't use it for both clubs so I guess the same perks applied.

People could sit wherever they wanted they weren't checking tickets inside the ground, I was over in the western stand for a while and payed the $15 to get in.

My point is though why does 1 clubs members get access to finals for free and other clubs members don't? Surely it should be same rules for all members competing in SANFL finals!!!

Maybe your team has to make the GF to find out the benefits

[Apachebulldog]

Simple tell them to FAAAARKKKK OFFFFFFF !!!!!!

[sib]

Also another point why was Crows members allowed into SANFL finals for free but SANFL club members had to pay?

All clubs members should be equal if we have to pay so should Crows members!!!!!

Only Essential Crows, Essential Power and Adelaide Oval Football members could
Its because they are the same as the old Category One, Two and Three Sanfl Aamu Stadium members. They have the same rights as they had when aami existed

[Wedgie]

Want a laugh? Read this statement from the NAFC in 2010 remembering we had the same league director then, at the vote and now:

POWERFUL MAGPIES COMING TO THE SANFL
If the jungle drums are correct, and they are becoming very loud, the concept of the Port Adelaide Football Club (POWER) and Port Adelaide Magpies establishing some form of unified entity is emerging. At this stage our Club is only aware of the ongoing media reports of the matter and cannot provide members with any official information. It appears that every time this issue is promoted in the local media, North Adelaide Football Club is promoted as being against the concept. For the record, we would like to advise members of the Club’s position, a position which is not open to journalistic licence. This position has also been conveyed to the SANFL, SANFL Clubs, Power and Crows.

North Adelaide Football Club does not support the merger or direct association of any SANFL Club with an AFL Club
This position should not be difficult for any in the football world to comprehend. There are many variables in terms of how each SANFL Club conducts its’ business, however the sanctioning of a merger/business arrangement for any Club has the potential to create an uneven SANFL playing field. Some of the concerns behind this position, but not limited to same, are as follows:

Direct reduction in administration costs, not available to all SANFL Clubs
Access to AFL Club membership data bases , within Adelaide that is 30,000 plus
Access to potential sponsors, direct, linked or perceived. This is particularly relevant when one considers the lesser commercial appeal of a standalone SANFL Club
Access to a wide range of football operation services
We well understand that assurances shall be offered, however history shows that assurances are always diluted over time.

All Clubs face challenges
North Adelaide Football Club has the deepest respect for the heritage of each SANFL Club and respects the right of each to fight for survival. In our case of course, we faced extinction in the face in 2002/2003. We tire of consistent references to our healthy financial status as if it “just happened”. The Board adopted the strategy of “thrive or perish”, we simply never wanted to become a voluntary euthanasia case. So don’t talk to North Adelaide about struggle, we lived it.

It took Board courage and vision, member dedication and support and a steadfast refusal to submit to overwhelming pressures that allowed the Club to survive.
2002/2003 tested every North persons resolve:
We won a solitary match, and that by 1 point.
Staff numbers were the lowest of any Club in the SANFL
We couldn’t meet our financial commitments, despite slashing overheads.
The Balance Sheet was arguably the worst in the SANFL and we operated on less income than any other Club
Players donated match payments so the Club could purchase some new footballs for training.
The Club, members, players, officials and sponsors marched down Main North Road in a display of unity
Board members attended Parliament House at 2am in the morning for critical Government decisions.
North people were heard, because we had to be as no one else was interested.
The chilling memory of 2003 was how little our Club’s rich heritage meant to the football world and the media outside our own people. There was no concerted support, in fact a quick look over our shoulder at the time only showed those with a red and white bent. Our history would have perished without a whimper or barely a mention in the classified columns of the local paper.
During this time the SANFL provided common support to all SANFL Clubs in terms of security, security which has allowed asset poor Clubs to negotiate financial facilities. Without this security, SANFL Football would be in a poor state.
Today our Club still has debt of $1.7m and will continue to pursue our strategies of debt reduction and football success.

Power /Port Magpies Issue

North Adelaide Football Club has no issue with the Power and Port Magpies pursuing whatever means are available to them to secure their respective futures. It is their good fortune to have significant support in Adelaide’s media circles
North Adelaide Football Club rejects representations of its official position other than that highlighted above
It is important for members to understand North Adelaide’s role in the process. The Club nominates a person to the role of Director at the SANFL. It is our understanding that the Director must then act in the best interests of football and the SANFL as nominated under the League Constitution, not their nominating Club. As such in our case, Bohdan Jaworskyj, must consider an issue in light of what is best for football rather than North Adelaide’s position. If a Club view is sought on any matter, the matter must be referred to the Board for consideration.
Under the SANFL Constitution, Directors only have specific matters upon which they can vote.
We believe this does not extend to matters such as the Power/Port Magpie business arrangement.

1. Technically, the Directors can have an indirect impact by not allowing a change to the SANFL Constitution, if that was required.

2. However if this change was not approved, and is not critical to an overall decision, the issue can be determined by the Commission.

3. The Commission has the power to alter the AFL sub licence to allow the matter to proceed.



This matter has already been considered once by the Commission Directors forum. In a strictly hypothetical scenario, is it possible that the Power presented a sound financial case to the AFL, the AFL advised the SANFL and the matter is again up for consideration?
It is highly unlikely that any impact study will be conducted in terms of effect on the SANFL. This competition is not part of the bigger picture.
We concede that it all makes sense from a One Port Adelaide perspective, why wouldn’t it? It is ironic that the Port Adelaide machine rode off into the sunset in pursuit of the big League with the granting of the AFL Licence to the distain of the remaining SANFL Clubs. It is a strange twist of fate that they now return seeking the support of those whose future they danced on – it is indeed a long road which does not turn!

Summary
It is our considered opinion that the One Port Adelaide Model will be approved with or without unanimous SANFL Club support. If a Risk Analysis report projected an expected financial benefit to football, the Directors would be duty bound to support it under the terms upon which they are appointed. One Port Adelaide, the Power and the Magpies will again emerge victorious, this time we trust with a degree of appreciation and humility. These are challenging times for standalone SANFL Clubs. Once the decision is taken, we accept same and move on.

[Wedgie]

Thanks to JTC for bumping that on the Roost too.

[johntheclaret]

The 2nd paragraph says it all really