Grade Cricket

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Re: Grade Cricket

Postby backoftheroom » Sun Oct 30, 2016 10:08 am

Tony Clifton wrote:A few draws yesterday :o

Lots of runs around the place. Makes a nice change from a few years ago when teams were often knocked over for <150 (and were still in the game!). The new curating system and the change of ball at A Grade level having a positive impact?


Don't know if 'positive' is the right word. Makes it a lot easier for batsmen with the turf ball rather than the regulation ball. Add to that the fact wickets are a bit all over the shop after all that rain and you get a bunch of flatties with a ball that goes soft in the 40th over and doesn't swing. Sure, you don't want to see sides being skittled for 150 every week, but that looks like more of a skill level thing and there just being more bowlers around who can get the job done. Sides making 400 every week on roads is no good for SA cricket, it's the same reason Australia play terribly away from home, no turf ball, no road, no runs.
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Re: Grade Cricket

Postby mickey » Sun Oct 30, 2016 10:32 am

Port clean sweep Woodville with not 1 of the chasing teams avoiding the follow on totals.

Good thing that WDCC are safe with results like that
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Re: Grade Cricket

Postby The Dark Knight » Sun Oct 30, 2016 12:22 pm

backoftheroom wrote:
Tony Clifton wrote:A few draws yesterday :o

Lots of runs around the place. Makes a nice change from a few years ago when teams were often knocked over for <150 (and were still in the game!). The new curating system and the change of ball at A Grade level having a positive impact?

Don't know if 'positive' is the right word. Makes it a lot easier for batsmen with the turf ball rather than the regulation ball. Add to that the fact wickets are a bit all over the shop after all that rain and you get a bunch of flatties with a ball that goes soft in the 40th over and doesn't swing. Sure, you don't want to see sides being skittled for 150 every week, but that looks like more of a skill level thing and there just being more bowlers around who can get the job done. Sides making 400 every week on roads is no good for SA cricket, it's the same reason Australia play terribly away from home, no turf ball, no road, no runs.

Ignorant question- When did they change to the Turf ball? I thought they've always used the regulation in grade cricket?
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Re: Grade Cricket

Postby heater31 » Sun Oct 30, 2016 12:33 pm

The Dark Knight wrote:
backoftheroom wrote:
Tony Clifton wrote:A few draws yesterday :o

Lots of runs around the place. Makes a nice change from a few years ago when teams were often knocked over for <150 (and were still in the game!). The new curating system and the change of ball at A Grade level having a positive impact?

Don't know if 'positive' is the right word. Makes it a lot easier for batsmen with the turf ball rather than the regulation ball. Add to that the fact wickets are a bit all over the shop after all that rain and you get a bunch of flatties with a ball that goes soft in the 40th over and doesn't swing. Sure, you don't want to see sides being skittled for 150 every week, but that looks like more of a skill level thing and there just being more bowlers around who can get the job done. Sides making 400 every week on roads is no good for SA cricket, it's the same reason Australia play terribly away from home, no turf ball, no road, no runs.

Ignorant question- When did they change to the Turf ball? I thought they've always used the regulation in grade cricket?

First Grade have used the First Class standard 'turf' ball since season 14/15. The same year SACA contracted curators as well.

Interesting that Sydney also did the same thing at the same time and by Christmas that year they were all whinging about too many runs being scored.


Bloody long day at Glandore yesterday with the last ball of the day bowled at 7pm! Which had a bit of spice added with the Buffalo Pom Matt Fisher on a hat-trick and Gullies on their last wicket.....
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Re: Grade Cricket

Postby The Dark Knight » Sun Oct 30, 2016 12:53 pm

heater31 wrote:First Grade have used the First Class standard 'turf' ball since season 14/15. The same year SACA contracted curators as well.

Interesting that Sydney also did the same thing at the same time and by Christmas that year they were all whinging about too many runs being scored.

Aha cheers Heater. Do the other three senior grades use the turf ball? We used the senator back in under 16s, do they still use it?
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Re: Grade Cricket

Postby heater31 » Sun Oct 30, 2016 12:57 pm

The Dark Knight wrote:
heater31 wrote:First Grade have used the First Class standard 'turf' ball since season 14/15. The same year SACA contracted curators as well.

Interesting that Sydney also did the same thing at the same time and by Christmas that year they were all whinging about too many runs being scored.

Aha cheers Heater. Do the other three senior grades use the turf ball? We used the senator back in under 16s, do they still use it?

At nearly twice the price the 'Turf' ball is only used in First Grade. Clubs are only charged for the price for the Rego, SACA make up the difference.
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Re: Grade Cricket

Postby Tony Clifton » Sun Oct 30, 2016 3:48 pm

Double post
Last edited by Tony Clifton on Sun Oct 30, 2016 3:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Grade Cricket

Postby Tony Clifton » Sun Oct 30, 2016 3:48 pm

backoftheroom wrote:
Tony Clifton wrote:A few draws yesterday :o

Lots of runs around the place. Makes a nice change from a few years ago when teams were often knocked over for <150 (and were still in the game!). The new curating system and the change of ball at A Grade level having a positive impact?


Don't know if 'positive' is the right word. Makes it a lot easier for batsmen with the turf ball rather than the regulation ball. Add to that the fact wickets are a bit all over the shop after all that rain and you get a bunch of flatties with a ball that goes soft in the 40th over and doesn't swing. Sure, you don't want to see sides being skittled for 150 every week, but that looks like more of a skill level thing and there just being more bowlers around who can get the job done. Sides making 400 every week on roads is no good for SA cricket, it's the same reason Australia play terribly away from home, no turf ball, no road, no runs.

It's positive IMO. Can no longer have medium pacers who will never get near 1st class cricket take bags of wickets every week. Now need a bit of pace or height to have a regular impact. Or spinners that give it a rip. It's closer in style to what first class cricket is
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Re: Grade Cricket

Postby backoftheroom » Sun Oct 30, 2016 4:08 pm

Literally the exact same thing has happened with blokes who will never make it as bats. Good batsmen still make runs against those bowlers, but getting lesser batsmen out when they can camp on the front shoe and dead bat the ball for 30 overs is a whole different kettle of fish. Like I said before, Australia are flat track bullies and the last thing it needs is grade cricket mirroring that.

Tony Clifton wrote:
backoftheroom wrote:
Tony Clifton wrote:A few draws yesterday :o

Lots of runs around the place. Makes a nice change from a few years ago when teams were often knocked over for <150 (and were still in the game!). The new curating system and the change of ball at A Grade level having a positive impact?


Don't know if 'positive' is the right word. Makes it a lot easier for batsmen with the turf ball rather than the regulation ball. Add to that the fact wickets are a bit all over the shop after all that rain and you get a bunch of flatties with a ball that goes soft in the 40th over and doesn't swing. Sure, you don't want to see sides being skittled for 150 every week, but that looks like more of a skill level thing and there just being more bowlers around who can get the job done. Sides making 400 every week on roads is no good for SA cricket, it's the same reason Australia play terribly away from home, no turf ball, no road, no runs.

It's positive IMO. Can no longer have medium pacers who will never get near 1st class cricket take bags of wickets every week. Now need a bit of pace or height to have a regular impact. Or spinners that give it a rip. It's closer in style to what first class cricket is
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Re: Grade Cricket

Postby bulldogproud » Sun Oct 30, 2016 8:28 pm

mickey wrote:Port clean sweep Woodville with not 1 of the chasing teams avoiding the follow on totals.

Good thing that WDCC are safe with results like that


A possible case of Karma after Woodville 'massaged' the draw so that their bye would be a 1-day game in Round One rather than in Round Two as it would have been under original SACA programming?
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Re: Grade Cricket

Postby Eagles2014 » Sun Oct 30, 2016 10:53 pm

backoftheroom wrote:Literally the exact same thing has happened with blokes who will never make it as bats. Good batsmen still make runs against those bowlers, but getting lesser batsmen out when they can camp on the front shoe and dead bat the ball for 30 overs is a whole different kettle of fish. Like I said before, Australia are flat track bullies and the last thing it needs is grade cricket mirroring that.

Tony Clifton wrote:
backoftheroom wrote:
Tony Clifton wrote:A few draws yesterday :o

Lots of runs around the place. Makes a nice change from a few years ago when teams were often knocked over for <150 (and were still in the game!). The new curating system and the change of ball at A Grade level having a positive impact?


Don't know if 'positive' is the right word. Makes it a lot easier for batsmen with the turf ball rather than the regulation ball. Add to that the fact wickets are a bit all over the shop after all that rain and you get a bunch of flatties with a ball that goes soft in the 40th over and doesn't swing. Sure, you don't want to see sides being skittled for 150 every week, but that looks like more of a skill level thing and there just being more bowlers around who can get the job done. Sides making 400 every week on roads is no good for SA cricket, it's the same reason Australia play terribly away from home, no turf ball, no road, no runs.

It's positive IMO. Can no longer have medium pacers who will never get near 1st class cricket take bags of wickets every week. Now need a bit of pace or height to have a regular impact. Or spinners that give it a rip. It's closer in style to what first class cricket is


Agree with Backoftheroom here totally, the pitches are absolute roads and mask over some batters deficiencies. Same happens at Shield level, and a major reason why Australia always struggle in England when the pitches actually give the bowlers something.
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Re: Grade Cricket

Postby Eagles2014 » Sun Oct 30, 2016 10:58 pm

bulldogproud wrote:
mickey wrote:Port clean sweep Woodville with not 1 of the chasing teams avoiding the follow on totals.

Good thing that WDCC are safe with results like that


A possible case of Karma after Woodville 'massaged' the draw so that their bye would be a 1-day game in Round One rather than in Round Two as it would have been under original SACA programming?


Careful what you say Bulldogproud, rumours around that SACA officials and Mr.Turley from Woodville read this forum and are less than impressed with the criticism of the draw. Maybe they need to justify how they can change a draw that is set every year, talk about a compromised draw. Resulted in most Clubs having four weeks home in a row or four weeks away, what a joke. Karma for Woodville for sure, well done Port!
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Re: Grade Cricket

Postby Tony Clifton » Mon Oct 31, 2016 6:12 am

Eagles2014 wrote:Agree with Backoftheroom here totally, the pitches are absolute roads and mask over some batters deficiencies. Same happens at Shield level, and a major reason why Australia always struggle in England when the pitches actually give the bowlers something.

By that logic the Redbacks should have been dominating the previous ten years on greentops at the Gabba then with all that terrific preparation in low scoring grade games :D

One of the other reasons medium trundlers could succeed was because wickets were average - slow and low. They could ring it up early. Keeper up, short cover, short mid wicket. Hard to score, Simon Hatji leads the wickets :oops:

Terrible cricket. Means that both runs and wickets are completely meaningless. Didn't matter if batters couldn't handle pace or couldn't play off the back foot. Grade batters churning out big runs recently - Weatherald, Carey for instance - have gone well in first class cricket.
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Re: Grade Cricket

Postby Aerie » Mon Oct 31, 2016 9:24 am

Can understand how better prepared wickets can help with the run scoring, but how is the upgraded ball better for the batsman? Not saying it's not, I wouldn't know, just interested why this ball is supposedly more batsman friendly?

Have they also cracked down on ball tampering after incident last season?
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Re: Grade Cricket

Postby heater31 » Mon Oct 31, 2016 9:28 am

Aerie wrote:Can understand how better prepared wickets can help with the run scoring, but how is the upgraded ball better for the batsman? Not saying it's not, I wouldn't know, just interested why this ball is supposedly more batsman friendly?

Have they also cracked down on ball tampering after incident last season?

Seam is less pronounced I believe.

Being the amateur aerodynamicist that I am...that would smooth out the air flow over the ball reducing the tendency to swing.

The effect would be miniscule as clubs would still have majority regulation balls at training.
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Re: Grade Cricket

Postby backoftheroom » Mon Oct 31, 2016 10:11 am

Aerie wrote:Can understand how better prepared wickets can help with the run scoring, but how is the upgraded ball better for the batsman? Not saying it's not, I wouldn't know, just interested why this ball is supposedly more batsman friendly?

Have they also cracked down on ball tampering after incident last season?


The turf ball goes softer much quicker. Has less of a seam as mentioned earlier, which means it doesn't move as much off the deck or in the air. They tend to lose their shape much quicker as well and go square. They also stop swinging after 10 overs unless you get a pitch that isn't very abrasive, but with decks being mowed and rolled to within an inch of their lives you seldom get a ball swinging conventional in the 20th over.

While ball tampering is obviously not the right thing to do, teams need to find a way to get the ball moving off the straight ASAP, otherwise blokes at 5-9 can all make hundreds without a lot to deal with.

There is a clear difference in the styles of cricket between teams because of this as well I think. Sturt have some good swing bowlers who go missing after the first session because spin from both ends is the only option. Northerns haven't got the cattle to blast a side out so they ring up sides and play boring cricket on a slow wicket. Then you get Glenelg who have someone like Jack Pudney who will get the ball reversing at 130km/h and bowl sides out just after tea. That would't happen with a rego ball, every side would take wickets consistently UNLESS batsmen actually do some hard work and knuckle down for a couple hours.
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Re: Grade Cricket

Postby Tony Clifton » Mon Oct 31, 2016 10:44 am

What is happening now is that some clubs with pop gun attacks who used to prosper can no longer do so. It's a very good thing for cricket.

Clubs are being forced to uncover bowlers with genuine weapons - height, speed, skills other than just accuracy. Also spinners who genuinely give the ball a rip. I think if we look at the % of overs bowled by wrist spinners this season and compared it to 4 years ago it would have increased.

In turn that means to make runs batters will need to be able to handle facing pace and be adept at playing spin. Skills that actually translate to first class level. Batting time vs medium pacers does not translate at all.

Teams need to take wickets in the first session when the ball is new which is exactly as it should be.

The turf ball doesn't go softer quicker. It doesn't lose shape more. It's a better quality ball.

It's a good thing that bowlers who bowl at 115km/hr can no longer be successful in A Grade cricket. That was the biggest blight on our game previously. When cricketers from Sydney and Melbourne grade cricket came here it was always the first observation they made. No pace, lots of boring medium pacers compared to back home.
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Re: Grade Cricket

Postby heater31 » Mon Oct 31, 2016 11:00 am

Aerie wrote:
Have they also cracked down on ball tampering after incident last season?


I would suggest so.....believe there was an investigation in round 1 by the controlling umpires in a 2nd Grade match. Umpires would be very aware of any previous issues from clubs under suspicion of doing the wrong thing.
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Re: Grade Cricket

Postby backoftheroom » Mon Oct 31, 2016 3:25 pm

Tony Clifton wrote:What is happening now is that some clubs with pop gun attacks who used to prosper can no longer do so. It's a very good thing for cricket.

Clubs are being forced to uncover bowlers with genuine weapons - height, speed, skills other than just accuracy. Also spinners who genuinely give the ball a rip. I think if we look at the % of overs bowled by wrist spinners this season and compared it to 4 years ago it would have increased.

In turn that means to make runs batters will need to be able to handle facing pace and be adept at playing spin. Skills that actually translate to first class level. Batting time vs medium pacers does not translate at all.

Teams need to take wickets in the first session when the ball is new which is exactly as it should be.

The turf ball doesn't go softer quicker. It doesn't lose shape more. It's a better quality ball.

It's a good thing that bowlers who bowl at 115km/hr can no longer be successful in A Grade cricket. That was the biggest blight on our game previously. When cricketers from Sydney and Melbourne grade cricket came here it was always the first observation they made. No pace, lots of boring medium pacers compared to back home.


Sure, trying to uncover lots of blokes who bowl wheels and are 6'9" is great in theory, but with the amount of teams in the comp and the amount of juniors available it won't happen. I'm not saying spinners have no role to play, nor am I saying the same about fast/medium pace bowlers, but the disparity between Turf and Rego balls forces teams to play completely different to how they would have 5 years ago. You are also selling the medium pace bowlers a bit short too, they need to be able to swing the ball and control their line and length as much as the guy who bowls 130km/h, they just do it at a pace that is easier to whack when they get it wrong.

Needing to play against all types of bowling is important, but players at 1st and second grade level should have the skills to do so already, the issue when going up to the next level is the mental game. Having dibly dobler mediums tying up an end is as hard to bat against as a quick with a reverse swinging ball. Sometimes even harder when the ball has no pace on it and it's hard to score.

Also, the Turf ball absolutely goes softer quicker, you've obviously never used one on a flat wicket if you think otherwise. The Rego balls are significantly harder and more durable than the Turf ball, particularly when it comes to maintaining its shape. I've seen Turf balls changed in the 15th over due to losing shape, never a Rego ball.
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Re: Grade Cricket

Postby helicopterking » Mon Oct 31, 2016 3:35 pm

Tony Clifton wrote:What is happening now is that some clubs with pop gun attacks who used to prosper can no longer do so. It's a very good thing for cricket.

Clubs are being forced to uncover bowlers with genuine weapons - height, speed, skills other than just accuracy. Also spinners who genuinely give the ball a rip. I think if we look at the % of overs bowled by wrist spinners this season and compared it to 4 years ago it would have increased.

In turn that means to make runs batters will need to be able to handle facing pace and be adept at playing spin. Skills that actually translate to first class level. Batting time vs medium pacers does not translate at all.

Teams need to take wickets in the first session when the ball is new which is exactly as it should be.

The turf ball doesn't go softer quicker. It doesn't lose shape more. It's a better quality ball.

It's a good thing that bowlers who bowl at 115km/hr can no longer be successful in A Grade cricket. That was the biggest blight on our game previously. When cricketers from Sydney and Melbourne grade cricket came here it was always the first observation they made. No pace, lots of boring medium pacers compared to back home.


So Jamie Panelli, Kensingtons leading wicket taker ever was a blight on the game?
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