Expansion or bust....

[Booney]

My good mate Rik E Boy makes some good points on a regular basis, one comment he made in an email trail this morning was most accurate and warranted further discussion.

Vladimir Dimitriou sold us a pup when he gave Gold Coast and GWS licences. To “grow the game” he said, well, we might have 9 games every weekend but the “game” itself isn’t growing. Granted, the best teams playing their best football is brilliant to watch in this high scoring, fast moving era that we are in but the competition, despite the talk it will be as even as it ever has, there’s a gulf growing between the top and the bottom and the sides in the middle look stuck. At least for the short term.

Hawthorn built a solid unit under Clarkson as they traded in the likes of Gunston, Burgoyne, Gibson, Hale, MvEvoy and Frawley to compliment the Roughead, Franklin, Hodge, Mitchell, Lewis group. While they were bringing in the readymade talent the sides chasing them were struggling to make inroads. Sure, Sydney took Franklin and Tippett, the Cats took Dangerfield but that’s in recent times. The likes of Collingwood, Fremantle and St Kilda, who have all played in Grand Finals since the Hawks won in 2008 were going backwards as the Suns and Giants raped the drafts and took on any free agent who cared for some sunshine or money.

So the Hawks carry on their merry way as Sydney and West Coast have a crack, fall short and go back to the drawing board and the likes of St Kilda, Fremantle and Collingwood fall from the top end of the ladder to the top end of the draft in no time.

Then the likes of Brisbane, really poor for several years now, struggle to hold onto anyone with a game as the kids can’t wait to get out of there. Carlton enters it’s 4th rebuild in 7 years, North hang on and hang on and hang on to a faint hope the prelim finals might be their second last week of the year before they too clean out the cupboards and fill the nursing home.

Essendon do themselves in while Richmond and Port, through a bit of recruiting and a couple of goods picks in the draft managed to stay mid table without really falling ( bar Port in 2011 ). Port also made the most of the work done in 2013 to grab a couple of big names as Ryder and Dixon saw Port as a “destination club” with a future. All the while Hawthorn top up, pick and choose and stay there for the last dance. Nobody could catch them, nobody could challenge them as the Suns and Giants built squads full of 1st round picks and everyone else hoped to snaffle some quality late in the draft or recycle fringe players from elsewhere.

Now, the Suns clearly got their set up all wrong. Their free agents didn’t work out, try these on for size. Nathan Bock, Nathan Krakouer, Karmichael Hunt, Jarrod Harbrow, Campbell Brown....oh dear. No wonder.

The Giants, with 2 year to look on, got theirs right and it started at the top with Sheedy, Williams, Cornes, Brogan all coming in with hard heads and not giving the kids an inch. It’s paid off, well, it’s about too.

Now look where the Hawks are. They took their hard earned club culture and tore it to shreds when they moved Mitchell and Lewis on to get T.Mitchell ( who can’t kick over a jam tin ) and O’Meara who has already missed with a “knock to the knee”, Vickery, lol, and Henderson from Adelaide’s B grade. With no 1st round pick this year ( that is St Kilda’s as part of the O’Meara deal, thank you very much say St Kilda ) and the likes of Gibson, McEvoy, Burgoyne, Hodge, Frawley all looking shot the next tier in Puopolo, Gunston, Breust, Smith and Shiels aren’t getting it on a silver platter anymore and doesn’t it show. How the might have fallen. Hawk haters line up, they’re cooked and they won’t be back any time soon.

So while the Hawks win 3 in a row to lay claim as the best of the modern era it begs the question. With the talent spread so thin elsewhere in the competition how would the Hawks of 13/14/15 stack up against Brisbane from ’03, Geelong from ’07 or Collingwood from ’10? I’m not sure they’d be wearing 3-peat t-shirts if it wasn’t for the Suns and Giants taking the best of the best for as long as they have.....and I'm not sure the Hawks are as mighty as we thought they were.

Discuss...

[MW]

Interesting discussion.

Brisbane built their side and won 3 out of 4 flags with predominantly the same list
Geelong did very similar, and have tried to go down the Hawks route recently with the mid aged recruits to hold them up there.
Hawthorn did it brilliantly in the current climate, as you said. They recognised they could not get the best talent in the draft so recruited free agents and traded very smartly to hold them up there.

IMO, Brisbanes reign was the most dominant out of the three and especially considering they did it with mostly the same list.

[The Bedge]

Will the AFL ever consider downsizing again and removing those clubs that struggle to keep up?

The Gold Coast always has been and always will be a sporting graveyard, better off investing in Cairns or Darwin.

Victoria still have too many clubs in the AFL as well IMO.

[bennymacca]

The expansion teams certainly allowed Hawthorn and probably Geelong stay at the top for longer than they otherwise would have, because teams at the top of the second rung have had picks in the 20s and 30s to replenish their lists, and not first rounders

Thats not a knock on the hawks or cats though, they cashed in and good luck to them.

Certainly hindered teams like carlton and brisbane though as they didnt get as much of the talent that they otherwise would have. It was always going to be like that for a few years, and the AFL and the clubs signed off on it.

With a couple of years of "normal" drafts now, you can already see the competition evening up again though. Even gold coast look like they may have their house in order this year.

You can still debate the merits of putting a team on the gold coast, but I think expansion should be seen as a success so far imo.

The elephant in the room is still a Tasmanian team though. Its clear that it would work, Hawthorn and North selling games there proves that. But I think thats the exact reason why nothing has happened - a Tassie team would be a success, but the finances of north and hawthorn would take a hit and i dont think the afl wants that

[The Bedge]

a Tassie team would be a success, but the finances of north and hawthorn would take a hit and i dont think the afl wants that

That's an issue in itself! If you want to be a national comp, and you know a location like Tasmania will be sustainable then that should be invested in, instead of worrying about the established Victorian clubs because they have too many clubs to compete against each other for corporate dollar..

[Booney]

Even gold coast look like they may have their house in order this year.

They simply had to respond last weekend against the Hawks, they did, but we now have a better gauge on Hawthorn, then they beat Carlton this week. Hardly a time to suggest they have their house in order. What they do have is one of the best big men in the game who might be the best in a year or two if they can get it too him often enough.

[The Bedge]

What they do have is one of the best big men in the game who might be the best in a year or two if they can hold onto him

EFA

[Lightning McQueen]

Will the AFL ever consider downsizing again and removing those clubs that struggle to keep up?

The Gold Coast always has been and always will be a sporting graveyard, better off investing in Cairns or Darwin.

Victoria still have too many clubs in the AFL as well IMO.

The GWS experiment was equally as stupid, although the GWS are coming of age is just like putting more voltage in a mechanical bull.

There were too many teams in the AFL in the first place and all the success in the world isn't going to see Spotless Stadium have an increased capacity and filled each home game.

I guess it all comes down to what success is measured on.

[Trader]

a Tassie team would be a success, but the finances of north and hawthorn would take a hit and i dont think the afl wants that

That's an issue in itself! If you want to be a national comp, and you know a location like Tasmania will be sustainable then that should be invested in, instead of worrying about the established Victorian clubs because they have too many clubs to compete against each other for corporate dollar..

Tasmanians already support footy. Send a team down there and you pick up very few extra fans.
Send a team to the 4m people living in Western Sydney and you get a number of new fans.

It has very little to do with appeasing people who already support the game, and a hell of a lot to do with opening up new markets.

[bennymacca]

Even gold coast look like they may have their house in order this year.

They simply had to respond last weekend against the Hawks, they did, but we now have a better gauge on Hawthorn, then they beat Carlton this week. Hardly a time to suggest they have their house in order. What they do have is one of the best big men in the game who might be the best in a year or two if they can get it too him often enough.

They have had plenty of opportunities to "simply respond" in the past and have failed miserably.

It does indeed seem the Hawks are rubbish this year but I dont see gold coast finishing bottom few

[Lightning McQueen]

a Tassie team would be a success, but the finances of north and hawthorn would take a hit and i dont think the afl wants that

That's an issue in itself! If you want to be a national comp, and you know a location like Tasmania will be sustainable then that should be invested in, instead of worrying about the established Victorian clubs because they have too many clubs to compete against each other for corporate dollar..

Father/son rule would be interesting.

[Lightning McQueen]

Even gold coast look like they may have their house in order this year.

They simply had to respond last weekend against the Hawks, they did, but we now have a better gauge on Hawthorn, then they beat Carlton this week. Hardly a time to suggest they have their house in order. What they do have is one of the best big men in the game who might be the best in a year or two if they can get it too him often enough.

They have had plenty of opportunities to "simply respond" in the past and have failed miserably.

It does indeed seem the Hawks are rubbish this year but I dont see gold coast finishing bottom few

To the defence of Gold Coast, they have been ravished injury-wise every time they have looked half decent.

[Booney]

Even gold coast look like they may have their house in order this year.

They simply had to respond last weekend against the Hawks, they did, but we now have a better gauge on Hawthorn, then they beat Carlton this week. Hardly a time to suggest they have their house in order. What they do have is one of the best big men in the game who might be the best in a year or two if they can get it too him often enough.

They have had plenty of opportunities to "simply respond" in the past and have failed miserably.

It does indeed seem the Hawks are rubbish this year but I dont see gold coast finishing bottom few

To the defence of Gold Coast, they have been ravished injury-wise every time they have looked half decent.

Ravaged too.

[Lightning McQueen]

To the defence of Gold Coast, they have been ravished injury-wise every time they have looked half decent.

Ravaged too.

And that, I guess men aren't built for multi-tasking.

[JK]

"Growing the game" has been, for quite some time now, relevative to nothing more than "growing the revenue".

It's an interesting discussion, but to be honest personally I don't consider it too important. All clubs had enough warning of what was coming - some strategies held up, and others didn't.

Your own club is a good example I reckon Booney - around the turn of the decade (or whenever the Primus era was) you held onto a few older players perhaps too long, and your recruiting/drafting wasn't long term enough, picking blokes like Simon Phillips (no disrespect to Flip, but selections like that weren't long term). When the Hinkley era commenced and you targeted blokes like Hombsch, Heath etc .. some of whom are still there and some been and gone .. you started giving yourself better options for the future with younger players that could also perform to a reasonable capacity in the here and now.

The Bulldogs invested heavily in youth also and reaped the benefits .. Conversely sides like Carlton opted to go with more mature players that were limited and would hold them back going forward.

Whilst it was difficult before, during and after the expansion clubs taking the cream of draft talent, it wasn't impossible.

[Rik E Boy]

Interesting discussion.

Brisbane built their side and won 3 out of 4 flags with predominantly the same list
Geelong did very similar, and have tried to go down the Hawks route recently with the mid aged recruits to hold them up there.
Hawthorn did it brilliantly in the current climate, as you said. They recognised they could not get the best talent in the draft so recruited free agents and traded very smartly to hold them up there.

IMO, Brisbanes reign was the most dominant out of the three and especially considering they did it with mostly the same list.

Nope. Hawthorn won the most premierships, Geelong won the highest percentage of matches over a 200 game period.

regards,

REB

[MW]

IMO REB

[Tiger83]

What they do have is one of the best big men in the game who might be the best in a year or two if they can hold onto him

EFA

Surely will be the next $1mill/year player?? Would at least get the leftovers from Abletts contract after he moves back to Sleepy Hollow. Love watching him Play, just hope he has the team to support him. Would hate to seem him so under appreciated and carrying a team all on his own like Pavlich did for his whole career.

[Jim05]

The AFL will claim the Suns have been a huge success. Aussie Rules participation in Queensland has gone through the roof and I believe has taken over from Rugby League in numbers at junior levels.

[The Bedge]

The AFL will claim the Suns have been a huge success. Aussie Rules participation in Queensland has gone through the roof and I believe has taken over from Rugby League in numbers at junior levels.

I've also heard that's on the back of hard working volunteers and stuff all effort/support provided by QAFL/AFL?