The never ending No AFL in the SANFL whinge thread

All discussions to do with the SANFL

Re: The never ending No AFL in the SANFL whinge thread

Postby Kahuna » Sat Apr 22, 2017 9:19 am

Copy and paste the link into Google, stan.
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Re: The never ending No AFL in the SANFL whinge thread

Postby UK Fan » Sat Apr 22, 2017 12:34 pm

[quote="saintal"]Copying the link into google usually works:

TRADITIONAL SANFL clubs — Norwood, West Adelaide and Sturt — have won the State league premiership since SA football, as the diehards say, was plummeted into an abyss with AFL reserves teams.

Only once, in 2014, with the Port Adelaide Magpies, has an AFL reserves team reached the SANFL grand final. And lost — to Norwood.

So much for the feared dominance of Crows and Power reserves teams in the SANFL.

The AFL clubs have achieved their wish of keeping their players together under one coaching program. The SANFL clubs are free of AFL coaches demanding how they use their players.

And the SA Football Commission has gained, by the AFL clubs, sponsorship currency to underwrite the much-needed free-to-air television coverage on Channel Seven each Saturday.


It is not perfect, but it is certainly better than the alternative of an AFL national reserves competition forcing the SANFL — and other State leagues — onto the third rung of Australian football.


And it seems to be much better than the scene in Perth today where the WAFL is not only at risk of becoming a subsidiary of the AFL — as AFL-WA — but still cannot find its financial security, with the Eagles and Dockers to move out of Subiaco Oval for their new, bigger base at Perth’s modern arena next year.

The WAFL has had the West Coast and Fremantle AFL franchises “take over” a traditional WAFL club — East Perth with the Eagles — and an expansion club, Peel Thunder for the Dockers reserves.

This model — now mocked in the WA media — was mooted in the SANFL in 2013 when Magarey Medallist and Double Blues legend John Halbert bravely stood up at the Sturt Football Club annual meeting recommending his club “merge” with the Crows to be Adelaide’s SANFL reserves team.

Halbert wanted a way to stop Sturt collapsing under financial pressure. And his plan solved the Crows’ problems, but not the SANFL’s need to remove the bye associated with a nine-team competition.

Sturt would be East Perth today. In essence, it would not be Sturt — just as the East Perth diehards say the old blue-collar “Royals” died at the weekend when they were thrashed by 91 points by Subiaco.

This was with 14 Eagles players in the line-up, all accused of — as the West Australian put it — working to a “player first” rather than “team first” mentality.

The SANFL has dodged a bullet, it would seem.

But the debate will continue on the merit of AFL reserves teams in the SANFL, regardless of the long-term deal signed with the Crows and Power.

That deal is not creating as much fuss in SANFL ranks as the long-term lease handed to the Crows at West Lakes. Norwood has changed the question from why the Crows pay a $400,000-a-year licence fee to be in the SANFL and the Magpies do not.

The Redlegs now ask why the $400,000 is sent back to the Adelaide Football Club — with an extra $900,000 — to maintain Football Park as a training base for the Crows?[
/quote]


But we can't have it both ways hey Benny. Free rent at aami plus now you claim back your sanfl licence fee.

What a surprise.

If there is one positive out of the AfL reserves incursion it is the notion that an afl reserves comp will destroy the status our league is rubbish. I've maintained for years an independent SANFL with no afl players/affiliation will be not only the second best league but the envy of every traditional state league in Australia.

Would love to know the real story behind the "afl sponsorship" helped us underwrite our tv coverage BS.
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Re: The never ending No AFL in the SANFL whinge thread

Postby StrayDog » Sat Apr 22, 2017 2:56 pm



Obfuscating progaganda, at its finest.

For example, the very first point in the article:-

"Only once, in 2014, with the Port Adelaide Magpies, has an AFL reserves team reached the SANFL grand final. And lost — to Norwood."

....after not playing in a decider for 15 years, miraculously made the GF in the first season of the new arrangement. Finished minor premiers after missing the finals completely for the previous five seasons, kicking three goals more per minor round game than the eventual Premiers.

And JUST missed out on the flag.

Not to mention taking up a spot in the Decider that would have otherwise been filled by a club that doesn't see the SANFL flag as a consolation prize.
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Darkness there, and nothing more."


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Re: The never ending No AFL in the SANFL whinge thread

Postby johntheclaret » Sat Apr 22, 2017 6:53 pm

UK Fan wrote:
Booney wrote:
UK Fan wrote:We've had 300 pages of football discussion on this thread alone dumbass.

https://memesuper.com/download/3aa07a5e ... 5d18c.html


Another constructive little contribution. :lol:


Until Wedgie comes up with a website http://www.blindlydefendingpafcbydummies.com.au

I Guess you're stuck with us buddy.

I clicked on the link but it doesn't work
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Re: The never ending No AFL in the SANFL whinge thread

Postby johntheclaret » Sat Apr 22, 2017 7:28 pm

Magellan wrote:Here 's the article in all its glory:

Chris Schacht: Adelaide Football Club, Port Adelaide Football Club and SACA members must demand constitutional change


WHO runs the Adelaide and Port Adelaide football clubs?

If you think it is the 120,000 souls who form the two South Australian AFL clubs’ membership bases, then you are wrong.

The AFL Commission is the sole owner and controlling shareholder of the Crows and Power.

This means the 120,000 members spread across the great divide in SA football share one common theme.

They do not have any effective say in who manages and operates their clubs.

It is absolutely ironical that the two AFL football clubs in South Australia are not owned by any South Australians. They are owned by the AFL Commission, which has at present no South Australian as a director.

The AFL Commission has absolute power to appoint the majority of directors in each club. In the case of the Adelaide Football Club, the so-called members can elect two of the nine directors in a postal ballot.

But even after these directors are elected, their final appointment must be approved by the AFL Commission.

The remaining board members are appointed by the AFL on the recommendation of the existing directors at the two clubs. In recent months three new directors have been appointed to the Crows board. No notice was given to the members that new directors were to be appointed. Management at West Lakes did not seek registration of interest from any club member as to whom they wished to be considered for any of these vacancies.

Seven of the nine directors never have had to face a ballot by the club members.

The 60,000 members at each club are no more than subscribers who buy tickets to attend a football match at Adelaide Oval.

Recently, the Adelaide Football Club held its annual meeting at Adelaide Oval. This consisted only of the existing board members plus a representative of the AFL Commission.

The AFL, as the sole shareholder, did not send a representative to the meeting. It appointed one of the existing directors as its proxy. The session in essence was a private meeting with only the directors present.

The club’s annual report and financial statement was approved by the board, but not circulated to the so-called 60,000 members for their information. The annual report was adopted by the sole shareholder, who in this case was the AFL proxy.

If the Adelaide Football Club was a publicly listed company the annual report and financial statements would be publicly available to all members or shareholders before the meeting.

The words of the Crows club song, “we are the pride of South Australia”, are particularly ironic considering that no South Australian is a club shareholder.

By comparison, several of the original AFL clubs in Victoria, such as Hawthorn, still have a constitution which allows their members to vote for their directors. There also is a term limit on all board members including the chairman.

Clearly, the Hawthorn members are committed to ensure that their club runs well and as a result they have won four premierships in the past 10 years.

The Crows have not played in a grand final since 1998.

Either all AFL football clubs should have a membership and governance structure like Hawthorn or all football clubs have to be owned by the AFL in the same way as Adelaide and Port Adelaide. Otherwise, there is a two-tiered system of governance which is not fair.

Recently a select committee of the South Australian Parliament held a public inquiry into the governance of the South Australian Cricket Association (SACA). The report was scathing in the way the SACA board manipulated the election process of board members.

SA taxpayers have directly contributed over half a billion dollars to build a new stadium at Adelaide Oval, to the absolute advantage of the Crows, Port Power and SACA.

Taxpayers, as well as club members, have a public right to know that their sporting clubs are democratically run.

In South Australia the members of the Adelaide Football Club, Port Adelaide Football Club and SACA must demand constitutional change so that they, the members, truly have an effective say in the ownership and running of their clubs.


Did the SANFL not own both Adelaide and Port Adelaide AFL Licenses?
It's ok to moan about how the AFL Commission own both SA franchises, but that's only because they were allowed to buy them.
The SANFL are supposed to be the custodians of Football in South Australia and that they've allowed the AFL to take ownership of the two SA Clubs and all the subsequent profit they make, whilst standing by and allowing the degradation of its state league is the real disgrace.
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Re: The never ending No AFL in the SANFL whinge thread

Postby Gozu » Sat Apr 22, 2017 7:31 pm

UK Fan wrote:If there is one positive out of the AfL reserves incursion it is the notion that an afl reserves comp will destroy the status our league is rubbish. I've maintained for years an independent SANFL with no afl players/affiliation will be not only the second best league but the envy of every traditional state league in Australia.


I'm not sticking up for the AFL sides I think the evidence is in and it was the wrong decision and the system of farming out the AFL players to the various SANFL sides worked much better but do you honestly think the SANFL would last longer than five minutes if the AFL set up a reserves comp?

Overnight the SANFL would become a third string comp and the AFL and it's media partners would ensure the comp would die a swift death. I don't like the idea of bending over to the AFL but that is the reality of the footy landscape, they hold all the power and unfortunately you've got to get on the teat whilst trying to keep as much of your integrity as possible.
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Re: The never ending No AFL in the SANFL whinge thread

Postby Spargo » Sat Apr 22, 2017 8:02 pm

Gozu wrote:
UK Fan wrote:If there is one positive out of the AfL reserves incursion it is the notion that an afl reserves comp will destroy the status our league is rubbish. I've maintained for years an independent SANFL with no afl players/affiliation will be not only the second best league but the envy of every traditional state league in Australia.


I'm not sticking up for the AFL sides I think the evidence is in and it was the wrong decision and the system of farming out the AFL players to the various SANFL sides worked much better but do you honestly think the SANFL would last longer than five minutes if the AFL set up a reserves comp?

Overnight the SANFL would become a third string comp and the AFL and it's media partners would ensure the comp would die a swift death. I don't like the idea of bending over to the AFL but that is the reality of the footy landscape, they hold all the power and unfortunately you've got to get on the teat whilst trying to keep as much of your integrity as possible.

I'd rather die on my feet than live on my knees.
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Re: The never ending No AFL in the SANFL whinge thread

Postby Jim05 » Sat Apr 22, 2017 8:11 pm

Spargo wrote:
Gozu wrote:
UK Fan wrote:If there is one positive out of the AfL reserves incursion it is the notion that an afl reserves comp will destroy the status our league is rubbish. I've maintained for years an independent SANFL with no afl players/affiliation will be not only the second best league but the envy of every traditional state league in Australia.


I'm not sticking up for the AFL sides I think the evidence is in and it was the wrong decision and the system of farming out the AFL players to the various SANFL sides worked much better but do you honestly think the SANFL would last longer than five minutes if the AFL set up a reserves comp?

Overnight the SANFL would become a third string comp and the AFL and it's media partners would ensure the comp would die a swift death. I don't like the idea of bending over to the AFL but that is the reality of the footy landscape, they hold all the power and unfortunately you've got to get on the teat whilst trying to keep as much of your integrity as possible.

I'd rather die on my feet than live on my knees.

Yep, have said this for ages.
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Re: The never ending No AFL in the SANFL whinge thread

Postby therisingblues » Sat Apr 22, 2017 9:34 pm

Gozu wrote:
UK Fan wrote:If there is one positive out of the AfL reserves incursion it is the notion that an afl reserves comp will destroy the status our league is rubbish. I've maintained for years an independent SANFL with no afl players/affiliation will be not only the second best league but the envy of every traditional state league in Australia.


I'm not sticking up for the AFL sides I think the evidence is in and it was the wrong decision and the system of farming out the AFL players to the various SANFL sides worked much better but do you honestly think the SANFL would last longer than five minutes if the AFL set up a reserves comp?

Overnight the SANFL would become a third string comp and the AFL and it's media partners would ensure the comp would die a swift death. I don't like the idea of bending over to the AFL but that is the reality of the footy landscape, they hold all the power and unfortunately you've got to get on the teat whilst trying to keep as much of your integrity as possible.

Disagree.
The SANFL's strength has always been out adherence to tradition. Before the Crows muscled their way into our comp we were a bastion. While the AFL were reinventing the game every 5 minutes in the name of squeezing every possible dollar out of it, we were a comparable sancturay for the way the game should be played. It was something the fans loved about it.
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Re: The never ending No AFL in the SANFL whinge thread

Postby Magellan » Sun Apr 23, 2017 12:50 am

Jim05 wrote:
Spargo wrote:
Gozu wrote:
UK Fan wrote:If there is one positive out of the AfL reserves incursion it is the notion that an afl reserves comp will destroy the status our league is rubbish. I've maintained for years an independent SANFL with no afl players/affiliation will be not only the second best league but the envy of every traditional state league in Australia.


I'm not sticking up for the AFL sides I think the evidence is in and it was the wrong decision and the system of farming out the AFL players to the various SANFL sides worked much better but do you honestly think the SANFL would last longer than five minutes if the AFL set up a reserves comp?

Overnight the SANFL would become a third string comp and the AFL and it's media partners would ensure the comp would die a swift death. I don't like the idea of bending over to the AFL but that is the reality of the footy landscape, they hold all the power and unfortunately you've got to get on the teat whilst trying to keep as much of your integrity as possible.

I'd rather die on my feet than live on my knees.

Yep, have said this for ages.

Well said, me too.
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Re: The never ending No AFL in the SANFL whinge thread

Postby UK Fan » Sun Apr 23, 2017 9:40 am

Gozu wrote:
UK Fan wrote:If there is one positive out of the AfL reserves incursion it is the notion that an afl reserves comp will destroy the status our league is rubbish. I've maintained for years an independent SANFL with no afl players/affiliation will be not only the second best league but the envy of every traditional state league in Australia.


I'm not sticking up for the AFL sides I think the evidence is in and it was the wrong decision and the system of farming out the AFL players to the various SANFL sides worked much better but do you honestly think the SANFL would last longer than five minutes if the AFL set up a reserves comp?

Overnight the SANFL would become a third string comp and the AFL and it's media partners would ensure the comp would die a swift death. I don't like the idea of bending over to the AFL but that is the reality of the footy landscape, they hold all the power and unfortunately you've got to get on the teat whilst trying to keep as much of your integrity as possible.



Absolute bollocks. We've had an afl reserves/top up league before. It did nothing to the sanfl status. It will have no support ala: the ravens 60000 members 200-300 attend sanfl games.

The vfl is practically an afl reserves comp, is it any stronger than the sanfl due to vic afl clubs having their own independent vfl clubs over the past decade. Has it changed the vfls status as a comp in anyway shape or form ?? If not ask yourself why not ??

The majority of Players would be more attracted to a sanfl club whose sole focus is to developed the individual. Not develope them when a spot is available/no afl players are playing in your position.

An afl reserves comp making the sanfl a 3rd rate comp is simply scaremongering.

This isn't unique to just AFL supporters or a sledge it's been happening for years. For further proof head to an sanfl/country/ammo Oval at 11:30 for the b grade. Then head back at 2:00 to check out the size of the crowd for the a grade game.

You'll see quite a difference no matter what the league.
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Re: The never ending No AFL in the SANFL whinge thread

Postby UK Fan » Sun Apr 23, 2017 10:11 am

stan wrote:
UK Fan wrote:In fairness considering how poorly Port have been run in the past you wouldnt really want them to have run of the board now would you?


PAFC incompetence is irrelevant really.

They were encouraged to overspend by AD and the AFL for years. Then the afl used PAFC poor financial position as the basis on the value they placed on their licence when purchasing it back.

Freaking genius move by Victorians. And of course 100% supported by Olsen and PAFCs vic controlled board wonderful Safooty servants they are.

One Question on the crows though Stan ???

They are making millions every year as promised and using your justification for pafcs board.

So why have the afl taken the crows over ???

Thoughts

**** knows really to be honest. If its all about control then I would have thought the AFL would be in talks with the state government to sort out the SMA. And by that I mean push out the SANFL and kill the revenue stream to kill it off. Then SANFL formally becomes AFLSA.

Also Olsen, I keep saying it but christ its amazing when we are surprised about his actions. The guy is so corrupt its not funny.[/quote]


Can't argue re: Olsen and there is no justification for the afl to take over Adelaide FC. Apart from previous set up was to sa football focused.

Why would the AFL want to kill SMA. it just set it up 3 years ago and the afl clubs are $9 million richer per annum due to SMA.

Plus there is one thing SMA and the afl have in common. Both don't care about grass roots sa football/sanfl.

Just pumping all the cash to the afl clubs whilst the sanfl agrees to pay the bills to run Adelaide Oval.
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Re: The never ending No AFL in the SANFL whinge thread

Postby Dutchy » Sun Apr 23, 2017 9:04 pm

Gozu wrote:
UK Fan wrote:If there is one positive out of the AfL reserves incursion it is the notion that an afl reserves comp will destroy the status our league is rubbish. I've maintained for years an independent SANFL with no afl players/affiliation will be not only the second best league but the envy of every traditional state league in Australia.


I'm not sticking up for the AFL sides I think the evidence is in and it was the wrong decision and the system of farming out the AFL players to the various SANFL sides worked much better but do you honestly think the SANFL would last longer than five minutes if the AFL set up a reserves comp?

Overnight the SANFL would become a third string comp and the AFL and it's media partners would ensure the comp would die a swift death. I don't like the idea of bending over to the AFL but that is the reality of the footy landscape, they hold all the power and unfortunately you've got to get on the teat whilst trying to keep as much of your integrity as possible.


BS...there would be little interest in a AFL reserves comp. SANFL, if managed correctly would still stay the 2nd best league in the country
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Re: The never ending No AFL in the SANFL whinge thread

Postby mighty_tiger_79 » Sun Apr 23, 2017 9:15 pm

The only interest is if the ressies are on before the league and your team is playing.

The SANFL had a great opportunity to continue being a league that didnt follow all the AFL rules. That was a great point of difference that made it enjoyable.

Now the SANFL are used to trial potential AFL rules...
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Re: The never ending No AFL in the SANFL whinge thread

Postby Gozu » Sun Apr 23, 2017 10:11 pm

Dutchy wrote:
Gozu wrote:
UK Fan wrote:If there is one positive out of the AfL reserves incursion it is the notion that an afl reserves comp will destroy the status our league is rubbish. I've maintained for years an independent SANFL with no afl players/affiliation will be not only the second best league but the envy of every traditional state league in Australia.


I'm not sticking up for the AFL sides I think the evidence is in and it was the wrong decision and the system of farming out the AFL players to the various SANFL sides worked much better but do you honestly think the SANFL would last longer than five minutes if the AFL set up a reserves comp?

Overnight the SANFL would become a third string comp and the AFL and it's media partners would ensure the comp would die a swift death. I don't like the idea of bending over to the AFL but that is the reality of the footy landscape, they hold all the power and unfortunately you've got to get on the teat whilst trying to keep as much of your integrity as possible.


BS...there would be little interest in a AFL reserves comp. SANFL, if managed correctly would still stay the 2nd best league in the country


I've got no doubt there would be little interest in an AFL reserves comp but there would be even less interest in the SANFL if it was a third string comp.
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Re: The never ending No AFL in the SANFL whinge thread

Postby Panther Pack » Sun Apr 23, 2017 10:22 pm

Gozu wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
Gozu wrote:
UK Fan wrote:If there is one positive out of the AfL reserves incursion it is the notion that an afl reserves comp will destroy the status our league is rubbish. I've maintained for years an independent SANFL with no afl players/affiliation will be not only the second best league but the envy of every traditional state league in Australia.


I'm not sticking up for the AFL sides I think the evidence is in and it was the wrong decision and the system of farming out the AFL players to the various SANFL sides worked much better but do you honestly think the SANFL would last longer than five minutes if the AFL set up a reserves comp?

Overnight the SANFL would become a third string comp and the AFL and it's media partners would ensure the comp would die a swift death. I don't like the idea of bending over to the AFL but that is the reality of the footy landscape, they hold all the power and unfortunately you've got to get on the teat whilst trying to keep as much of your integrity as possible.


BS...there would be little interest in a AFL reserves comp. SANFL, if managed correctly would still stay the 2nd best league in the country


I've got no doubt there would be little interest in an AFL reserves comp but there would be even less interest in the SANFL if it was a third string comp.


I don't see that creation of an ALF reserves comp meaning the SANFL is third tier the way I see it would be like this:

1st tier National Comp ALF
2nd tier State based comps SANFL, WAFL, NFL ECT
3rd tier Amateur level football Adelaide footy league, Southern footy league, hills footy league ECT

People now would say that amateur level footy is 3rd tier but technically above it is ALF, State based league and state based reserves so according to your philosophy it would make it 4th tier but people don't see it that way as reserves are just an add on to the league they play in.
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Re: The never ending No AFL in the SANFL whinge thread

Postby Gozu » Sun Apr 23, 2017 11:06 pm

Perhaps I should've said third-rate comp. Think about it Channel 7 deal would disappear, The Advertiser/News Ltd would give the SANFL's space to the AFL reserves comp and probably even blacklist the SANFL altogether, the FTA networks probably wouldn't bother to mention the SANFL again as their news reports would all be "Player X was a stand out in the AFL reserves game on the weekend but Player Y pulled up short and will be in doubt for a call up to the senior side in the big game against blah blah blah" accompanied by slick professional footage of the game from Fox or whatever.

I'm not saying I want that to happen to the SANFL it's bad enough now the way things are already but giving the AFL the finger would be the death of the league. I don't see how it go any other way, what SANFL clubs that survived would just be subsumed into the amateur league.

The mistake the SANFL clubs made was voting to let the Crows/Power reserves in because it's destroyed the fabric of the comp where you see two teams full of professionals play against part-timers every week where winning is of a secondary importance to the AFL reserves sides and developing their players takes precedence.

The old system was much better where the AFL players were sent back to their various SANFL clubs. It didn't compromise the integrity of the comp but still ensured AFL 'interest' in the SANFL as a whole. Now the two AFL clubs are only interested in their reserves sides and if the AFL ever start up a reserves comp they'll bail on the SANFL like no tomorrow and take all the contacts with them. One thing at least is with the AFLW starting up it probably makes that potential situation very unlikely now.
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Re: The never ending No AFL in the SANFL whinge thread

Postby UK Fan » Mon Apr 24, 2017 10:09 am

Gozu wrote:Perhaps I should've said third-rate comp. Think about it Channel 7 deal would disappear, The Advertiser/News Ltd would give the SANFL's space to the AFL reserves comp and probably even blacklist the SANFL altogether, the FTA networks probably wouldn't bother to mention the SANFL again as their news reports would all be "Player X was a stand out in the AFL reserves game on the weekend but Player Y pulled up short and will be in doubt for a call up to the senior side in the big game against blah blah blah" accompanied by slick professional footage of the game from Fox or whatever.

I'm not saying I want that to happen to the SANFL it's bad enough now the way things are already but giving the AFL the finger would be the death of the league. I don't see how it go any other way, what SANFL clubs that survived would just be subsumed into the amateur league.

The mistake the SANFL clubs made was voting to let the Crows/Power reserves in because it's destroyed the fabric of the comp where you see two teams full of professionals play against part-timers every week where winning is of a secondary importance to the AFL reserves sides and developing their players takes precedence.

The old system was much better where the AFL players were sent back to their various SANFL clubs. It didn't compromise the integrity of the comp but still ensured AFL 'interest' in the SANFL as a whole. Now the two AFL clubs are only interested in their reserves sides and if the AFL ever start up a reserves comp they'll bail on the SANFL like no tomorrow and take all the contacts with them. One thing at least is with the AFLW starting up it probably makes that potential situation very unlikely now.


I see your point but disagree. Has the sanfl/vfl attracted extra media attention due to having afl reserves ??? The sanfl dictates how much media we get. Not the AFL.

The AFL will be to full of its own worth to try and take attention off itself/AFLW. So an afl reserves league will have little impact if any media wise apart from a tag on line at the end of a story. "Dixon played three quarters in the reserves on the weekend and could be a chance to be recalled".

As opposed to "Dixon played three quarters in the state league.......".

I doubt they'd even put the full afl reserves sides in the advertiser every Friday just crows/power plus opponents sides with some small mindless reviews on the opponents afl players that week.

Where sanfl gets an entire page with the sides plus analysis and tips. I couldn't see that changing at all.

Sanfl will have more marketing appeal and sponsors than a reserves league.

Either way it will be better than what tripodi has sold us into at present.
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Re: The never ending No AFL in the SANFL whinge thread

Postby stan » Mon Apr 24, 2017 5:57 pm

@Uk fan I was saying the AFL pushing out the SANFL from the SMA. Basically the SANFL having no slice at all. I was referring to the AFL killing of the SANFL.

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Re: The never ending No AFL in the SANFL whinge thread

Postby sib » Mon Apr 24, 2017 6:36 pm

Power Reserves may have no injuries this week. Therefore Summerton should not be allowed to play. I bet SANFL allow power to say they have players needing a rest.
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