The never ending No AFL in the SANFL whinge thread

[RB]

It's simply progress. There is almost nothing anyone could've done or can do. Blaming this person or that person or this club or that organisation or this schedule or the fact there are AFL Reserves is simply covering up the cold hard truth of it all....

The SANFL is no longer relevant as a product for people to consume and has been eaten up in a competitive marketplace with time poor customers.

Progress my arse. You could demolish the Louvre and put up a ten story carpark and call it progress...

[RB]

I am sorry if that means the SANFL gets slightly compromised,

Lol 'slightly' compromised. There is no slightly. Integrity is absolute. Nothing can be 'slightly' compromised, especially not the competitive nature and soul of the league.

the AFL teams being competitive and successful is more important than the purity and sanctity of the SANFL competition. None of you will like hearing that, but it's correct nonetheless.

The statement is neither correct nor incorrect - as the relative importance of the AFL and SANFL is entirely subjective, it cannot possibly be right or wrong.

The statement is, however, dim-witted and juvenile.

[johntheclaret]

But just as an aside, say Port and the Crows don't have good AFL teams for a protracted period. Say 20 years - like a Carlton. Maybe Port fold at AFL level and the Crows lose relevance. Kids stop playing footy as there isn't anyone exciting to watch and they're sick of losing and instead take up soccer. Numbers drop, grassroots clubs fold - the gateway for people to start playing and watching footy.

Soon enough, there just isn't enough of a football market to make things viable and South Australia turns into a "Soccer State" like Queensland is a rugby state.

For football to remain the sport we all love and enjoy, we have to have strong, relevant, successful football teams at AFL level. For that to happen they need good football structures like those interstate to compete. Which includes Reserves playing in competitive comps.

I am sorry if that means the SANFL gets slightly compromised, but to me, the AFL teams being competitive and successful is more important than the purity and sanctity of the SANFL competition. None of you will like hearing that, but it's correct nonetheless.

FFS you talk like footy didn't exist before the AFL. I think if you look back before the Crows were created, SA had a thriving league which funnily included your mob. I think if the Crows disappeared along with your mob, then the SANFL would thrive again as SA is essentially a footy state, and fans are fickle. Those same tens of thousands that have jumped on the Crows and Port bandwagon would soon jump onto a SANFL club don't worry about that. Whether Port was part of it or not.

[tipper]

Straw and Men. Then you went and agreed with the rest of my post. Strange.

I would love for the AFL to have a reserves comp. I don't like them in the SANFL either. I don't particularity like Todd Marshall playing against blokes who are physically bigger than him and out to prove a point, for example - but at the moment it's the best solution of a bad bunch of options.

My argument was against the notion that Port have received bail outs to the tune of 16M dollars and that the SANFL's downfall is apparently all Port's fault. And that the Reserves is the core reason for the slide in attendance.

The AFL Reserves playing in the SANFL is not ideal and there are some that would be turned off by it but as I said, it's the tree in the forest, not the forest itself.

still have that massive chip on your shoulder i see. the only poster here claiming that it is all ports fault, is you. the rest of us are sharing the love around.....

your arguments are plainly wrong. if you wanted to argue against the notion of the bail outs, shouldnt you have done that years ago when it was actually happening? or were you just happy then to receive the money and are now just sitting there with your fingers in your ears shouting "i cant hear you" when it is way too late. the Power were sucking on the sanfls welfare teat for years.

the reserves are the sole reason for the fall in attendance. what else could be the cause that just so coincidentally started the same time that the reserves sides did? you are claiming that it is something else, with absolutely no evidence. just saying its not their fault, doesnt make it so.

[morell]

It's simply progress. There is almost nothing anyone could've done or can do. Blaming this person or that person or this club or that organisation or this schedule or the fact there are AFL Reserves is simply covering up the cold hard truth of it all....

The SANFL is no longer relevant as a product for people to consume and has been eaten up in a competitive marketplace with time poor customers.

Progress my arse. You could demolish the Louvre and put up a ten story carpark and call it progress...

If that carpark resulted in a superior product that people were willing to pay money for which underwrote and supported the "art" I was passionate about, then absolutely I would.

I am sorry if that means the SANFL gets slightly compromised,

Lol 'slightly' compromised. There is no slightly. Integrity is absolute. Nothing can be 'slightly' compromised, especially not the competitive nature and soul of the league.

It is slightly compromised to everyone but the zealots. Of which you are clearly one.

The AFL teams don't dominate, they haven't won flag after flag. It's slightly compromised based on every reasonable measure. Of which the "soul" of the competition, whatever that means, isn't one of them.

Yes, its not ideal. Yes, we should all aim for a better solution.

the AFL teams being competitive and successful is more important than the purity and sanctity of the SANFL competition. None of you will like hearing that, but it's correct nonetheless.

The statement is neither correct nor incorrect - as the relative importance of the AFL and SANFL is entirely subjective, it cannot possibly be right or wrong.

No it is correct, because the AFL has the hearts and minds of the paying public, the SANFL, does not. Ergo, if we want to ensure the long term sustainability and viability of the sport in this state, the AFL has to be the priority as that's what people want. And it is the priority - because people much smarter than you or I have understood the above.

The statement is, however, dim-witted and juvenile.

Sure thing. Keep on believing.

Meanwhile more people attended a regular season AFL game in **** ing Shanghai than the SANFL have seen in years.

[Dogwatcher]

It's an interesting point, if either AFL club in SA turned into a Richmond or Carlton for a decade or more what that would mean for their crowds/support. Adelaide Oval might help but I reckon both would suffer significant drops in attendance. Port don't cope with failure (never had to just had a peek under Primus and that was enough) and the Crows I think have a very soft underbelly I can't see a lot of them sticking it out through thin and thin they just don't strike me as a rusted on supporter group by any means.

Home crowd never dropped below average of 35k even during lean years. Evenavg near 40k during the Robert Shaw years!
I think they've proven to be good attendees regardless of how the season is going. Obviously has some variances with form.

Staying to the end of a game when losing is a different story!

Looked like 15k left at 3/4 time....... on TV.

My wife, for her sins, is a Crows member and she said it was ridiculous the departures going on around her at 3qt.
That West Lakes traffic snarl continues to play on their minds.

[morell]

But just as an aside, say Port and the Crows don't have good AFL teams for a protracted period. Say 20 years - like a Carlton. Maybe Port fold at AFL level and the Crows lose relevance. Kids stop playing footy as there isn't anyone exciting to watch and they're sick of losing and instead take up soccer. Numbers drop, grassroots clubs fold - the gateway for people to start playing and watching footy.

Soon enough, there just isn't enough of a football market to make things viable and South Australia turns into a "Soccer State" like Queensland is a rugby state.

For football to remain the sport we all love and enjoy, we have to have strong, relevant, successful football teams at AFL level. For that to happen they need good football structures like those interstate to compete. Which includes Reserves playing in competitive comps.

I am sorry if that means the SANFL gets slightly compromised, but to me, the AFL teams being competitive and successful is more important than the purity and sanctity of the SANFL competition. None of you will like hearing that, but it's correct nonetheless.

FFS you talk like footy didn't exist before the AFL. I think if you look back before the Crows were created, SA had a thriving league which funnily included your mob. I think if the Crows disappeared along with your mob, then the SANFL would thrive again as SA is essentially a footy state, and fans are fickle. Those same tens of thousands that have jumped on the Crows and Port bandwagon would soon jump onto a SANFL club don't worry about that. Whether Port was part of it or not.

Hilarious. You're utterly deluded.

[morell]

Straw and Men. Then you went and agreed with the rest of my post. Strange.

I would love for the AFL to have a reserves comp. I don't like them in the SANFL either. I don't particularity like Todd Marshall playing against blokes who are physically bigger than him and out to prove a point, for example - but at the moment it's the best solution of a bad bunch of options.

My argument was against the notion that Port have received bail outs to the tune of 16M dollars and that the SANFL's downfall is apparently all Port's fault. And that the Reserves is the core reason for the slide in attendance.

The AFL Reserves playing in the SANFL is not ideal and there are some that would be turned off by it but as I said, it's the tree in the forest, not the forest itself.

still have that massive chip on your shoulder i see. the only poster here claiming that it is all ports fault, is you. the rest of us are sharing the love around.....

Scroll back and have another read.

your arguments are plainly wrong. if you wanted to argue against the notion of the bail outs, shouldnt you have done that years ago when it was actually happening? or were you just happy then to receive the money and are now just sitting there with your fingers in your ears shouting "i cant hear you" when it is way too late. the Power were sucking on the sanfls welfare teat for years.

lol this has already been proven incorrect.

the reserves are the sole reason for the fall in attendance. what else could be the cause that just so coincidentally started the same time that the reserves sides did? you are claiming that it is something else, with absolutely no evidence. just saying its not their fault, doesnt make it so.

Yes, the SANFL was getting HUGE 1970 type crowds before the reserves.

1960 - 10,928
1970 - 9425
1980 - 9485
1990 - 7615
2001 - 3612
2014 - 2942
2016 - 2486

Its the AFL Reserves fault!

[tipper]

Yes, the SANFL was getting HUGE 1970 type crowds before the reserves.

1960 - 10,928
1970 - 9425
1980 - 9485
1990 - 7615
2001 - 3612
2014 - 2942
2016 - 2486

Its the AFL Reserves fault!

show me where i said that the crowd figures were 1970's like? and you accuse me of strawmen.....

go and post the crowd figures for every year for the last decade. there is a clear downturn from when the reserves were admitted. stop cherry picking only the facts that suit your delusions.

are you donald trump?

[Booney]

But just as an aside, say Port and the Crows don't have good AFL teams for a protracted period. Say 20 years - like a Carlton. Maybe Port fold at AFL level and the Crows lose relevance. Kids stop playing footy as there isn't anyone exciting to watch and they're sick of losing and instead take up soccer. Numbers drop, grassroots clubs fold - the gateway for people to start playing and watching footy.

Soon enough, there just isn't enough of a football market to make things viable and South Australia turns into a "Soccer State" like Queensland is a rugby state.

For football to remain the sport we all love and enjoy, we have to have strong, relevant, successful football teams at AFL level. For that to happen they need good football structures like those interstate to compete. Which includes Reserves playing in competitive comps.

I am sorry if that means the SANFL gets slightly compromised, but to me, the AFL teams being competitive and successful is more important than the purity and sanctity of the SANFL competition. None of you will like hearing that, but it's correct nonetheless.

FFS you talk like footy didn't exist before the AFL. I think if you look back before the Crows were created, SA had a thriving league which funnily included your mob. I think if the Crows disappeared along with your mob, then the SANFL would thrive again as SA is essentially a footy state, and fans are fickle. Those same tens of thousands that have jumped on the Crows and Port bandwagon would soon jump onto a SANFL club don't worry about that. Whether Port was part of it or not.

Can't agree with any of that.

[am Bays]

For those that can't or won't move on, who have protested by not buying their club's membership this year, won't go to Port or Crows SANFL games, or for those that just need a place to sook.

Here you go.

F*** You Dedja, **** You.....

[Dutchy]

Now it is AFL and the grassroots footy team.

Nah it's all Port's fault. Those damn lecherous bastards.

I don;t blame Port for this one, Crows pricks to blame for this whole thread.

[morell]

Yes, the SANFL was getting HUGE 1970 type crowds before the reserves.

1960 - 10,928
1970 - 9425
1980 - 9485
1990 - 7615
2001 - 3612
2014 - 2942
2016 - 2486

Its the AFL Reserves fault!

show me where i said that the crowd figures were 1970's like? and you accuse me of strawmen.....

go and post the crowd figures for every year for the last decade. there is a clear downturn from when the reserves were admitted. stop cherry picking only the facts that suit your delusions.

are you donald trump?

Urghhh omg. I don't deny the reserves has had an impact and some people don't like it - I said as much before. But there are much much bigger issues and impacts going on here which have been going on for decades.

I posted crowds before and after the AFL reserves. They went from 2.9k to 2.4k.

500 a game. Really. 500 hundred people a game is your biggest ******* issue when crowds have been on a consistent and permanent slide since the 1970s? C'mon man. You seem half intelligent. Surely you can see the bigger picture at play here.

[tipper]

Yes, the SANFL was getting HUGE 1970 type crowds before the reserves.

1960 - 10,928
1970 - 9425
1980 - 9485
1990 - 7615
2001 - 3612
2014 - 2942
2016 - 2486

Its the AFL Reserves fault!

show me where i said that the crowd figures were 1970's like? and you accuse me of strawmen.....

go and post the crowd figures for every year for the last decade. there is a clear downturn from when the reserves were admitted. stop cherry picking only the facts that suit your delusions.

are you donald trump?

Urghhh omg. I don't deny the reserves has had an impact and some people don't like it - I said as much before. But there are much much bigger issues and impacts going on here which have been going on for decades.

I posted crowds before and after the AFL reserves. They went from 2.9k to 2.4k.

500 a game. Really. 500 hundred people a game is your biggest ******* issue when crowds have been on a consistent and permanent slide since the 1970s? C'mon man. You seem half intelligent. Surely you can see the bigger picture at play here.

2.9 was a historic low, impacted by one of the wettest winters we have had in adelaide. the years leading up to that were all comfortably over 3000 average. once again, you are cherry picking numbers to suit your argument. the impact of the reserves is closer to 1000 per game, a third less people going each week, directly attributable to the reserves, but i shouldnt be worried.

so, if crowds have been on a consistent slide (although had pretty much stabilised for the decade before the introduction of the reserves), your solution to help the league, is to introduce something that drops crowds even further? that seems to make sense.

[morell]

No, not at all I don't know what the solution is. I really don't. I am just saying that the AFL teams being successful is more important as that is where the $$$ and people are.

In all reality I cannot see the SANFL surviving - at least not in its current form. Like someone else said, it's now your grassroots club for your local and junior footy and the AFL for your professional footy. In a crowded marketplace where the consumers are time poor, I just don't see what role the SANFL plays...

[tipper]

No, not at all I don't know what the solution is. I really don't. I am just saying that the AFL teams being successful is more important as that is where the $$$ and people are.

In all reality I cannot see the SANFL surviving - at least not in its current form. Like someone else said, it's now your grassroots club for your local and junior footy and the AFL for your professional footy. In a crowded marketplace where the consumers are time poor, I just don't see what role the SANFL plays...

it might be where the spectator numbers are, but supposedly the sanfl is the pathway for sa kids to make it to the afl. how does it go for your precious league if all the talent has no where to learn here in our state? its like killing the golden goose. short term gain, but then absolutely nothing in future.

its all good though. when the league folds the afl will find somewhere for the reserves teams to play, they will look after the power and crows, **** everyone else as long as they are looked after hey.

[MW]

Maybe it's time for the SANFL and Amateur League to merge...

[VALE PARK]

I thought provoking comment,are the ammos into byes?

[MW]

only if there are an uneven number of teams in the div

[saintal]

Early signs for 2017 aren’t great, crowds down 8% on the same time last year.

Crowds were steady between 2000 and 2012. 2013 saw a dip (poor weather for a lot of games and perhaps the shadows of the reserves decision played a part), 2014 a small spike (perhaps with Port finally winning some games and some curiosity about the Ravens) but attendances have fallen the past couple of years and will do so again in 2017.

Adelaide Oval's popularity would not have helped the situation either.

Steadily declining media, marketing and publicity also contributing. This despite the inclusion of the professionals with 130K members.

Ravens crowds have dipped from 3432 in 2014 to 2003 so far in 2017. Novelty wore off quickly.