The never ending No AFL in the SANFL whinge thread

[JK]

My suggestion as to the AFL's intentions would be because they have a pretty sound strategic view of where footy is heading this state, and the anchor the SANFL is providing their interests - namely the two AFL licenses.

... and they're right.

This problem started well before the SANFL provided a reserves home for the AFL clubs.

[Booney]

Where would Westies, the Bays or Norwood find $300-500k per year to pay players "big" wages?

[human_torpedo]

Serious question..

IF the SANFL were to as of 2018 remove the AFL Reserves sides and up the salary cap to say $1m just as a round figure.. Would that bring crowds back? Would that see the competition flourish? How many clubs could sustain player payments per season of around the $1m mark for example?

And don't come back with 'The AFL clubs have ruined it all' because that is wearing thin. The SANFL has been on a steady decline for some time before the AFL clubs entry. YES, I agree that they have sped up the process and are to blame in the lack of integrity seen in the competition now. But would the SANFL honestly flourish if the above happened as of 2018?

[JK]

Country league clubs are much richer than SANFL clubs. The money out there is ridiculous. My father in law used to be a country club president and they have farms set up owned by the club, but run by farmers who support the club. The money they generate from these farms is used to pay the players.

I guess SANFL clubs are trying to do similar with the pokies. Looking at the profit/loss of many clubs, it's not working whatever they are doing.

Everyone knows the financial strength of country and some other community clubs. OK nowadays obviously most SANFL clubs couldn't afford a highly increased cap, but it wasn't always the case, yet the AFL always threatened to remove or reduce funding until we complied with a reduced cap - Again I ask why? I really don't see how a SANFL competition paying say $600k per year to it's player, causes the AFL any issues whatsoever.

[JK]

Where would Westies, the Bays or Norwood find $300-500k per year to pay players "big" wages?

Last two decades the clubs would have found it, not now

[Booney]

Serious question..

IF the SANFL were to as of 2018 remove the AFL Reserves sides and up the salary cap to say $1m just as a round figure.. Would that bring crowds back? Would that see the competition flourish? How many clubs could sustain player payments per season of around the $1m mark for example?

And don't come back with 'The AFL clubs have ruined it all' because that is wearing thin. The SANFL has been on a steady decline for some time before the AFL clubs entry. YES, I agree that they have sped up the process and are to blame in the lack of integrity seen in the competition now. But would the SANFL honestly flourish if the above happened as of 2018?

Where the **** are the clubs finding $1m for a salary cap?!?!?!

[saintal]

Serious question..

IF the SANFL were to as of 2018 remove the AFL Reserves sides and up the salary cap to say $1m just as a round figure.. Would that bring crowds back? Would that see the competition flourish? How many clubs could sustain player payments per season of around the $1m mark for example?

And don't come back with 'The AFL clubs have ruined it all' because that is wearing thin. The SANFL has been on a steady decline for some time before the AFL clubs entry. YES, I agree that they have sped up the process and are to blame in the lack of integrity seen in the competition now. But would the SANFL honestly flourish if the above happened as of 2018?

What is your basis for that statement? Genuine question..

[human_torpedo]

Serious question..

IF the SANFL were to as of 2018 remove the AFL Reserves sides and up the salary cap to say $1m just as a round figure.. Would that bring crowds back? Would that see the competition flourish? How many clubs could sustain player payments per season of around the $1m mark for example?

And don't come back with 'The AFL clubs have ruined it all' because that is wearing thin. The SANFL has been on a steady decline for some time before the AFL clubs entry. YES, I agree that they have sped up the process and are to blame in the lack of integrity seen in the competition now. But would the SANFL honestly flourish if the above happened as of 2018?

What is your basis for that statement? Genuine question..

Honestly, just went by crowd figures/attendance. Happy to be proven wrong but my gut feel says membership numbers and sponsorship revenue have either dropped or have been far greater to sustain..

Happy to be proven wrong though, but that specific line had a fair bit of gut feel about it

[am Bays]

Serious question..

IF the SANFL were to as of 2018 remove the AFL Reserves sides and up the salary cap to say $1m just as a round figure.. Would that bring crowds back? Would that see the competition flourish? How many clubs could sustain player payments per season of around the $1m mark for example?

And don't come back with 'The AFL clubs have ruined it all' because that is wearing thin. The SANFL has been on a steady decline for some time before the AFL clubs entry. YES, I agree that they have sped up the process and are to blame in the lack of integrity seen in the competition now. But would the SANFL honestly flourish if the above happened as of 2018?

Where the **** are the clubs finding $1m for a salary cap?!?!?!

From the AFL as part of the TPP

State leagues (WAFL, SANFL and VFL) salary cap for non-aligned clubs should be 10% of the AFL clubs salary cap.

Therefore IF salary cap for an AFL club is 10 Mill, the state league clubs should get 1 mill for their Salary cap.

This would give players who are offered sold a dream of a professional career have a pathway to earn some decent coin for a period of time while they sort their plan B career and those getting chopped after dedicating their lives for 2-5 to 10 years have a pathway down and out of the elite AFL system to get an alternate career

When I take over from Gil.....

[saintal]

Serious question..

IF the SANFL were to as of 2018 remove the AFL Reserves sides and up the salary cap to say $1m just as a round figure.. Would that bring crowds back? Would that see the competition flourish? How many clubs could sustain player payments per season of around the $1m mark for example?

And don't come back with 'The AFL clubs have ruined it all' because that is wearing thin. The SANFL has been on a steady decline for some time before the AFL clubs entry. YES, I agree that they have sped up the process and are to blame in the lack of integrity seen in the competition now. But would the SANFL honestly flourish if the above happened as of 2018?

What is your basis for that statement? Genuine question..

Honestly, just went by crowd figures/attendance. Happy to be proven wrong but my gut feel says membership numbers and sponsorship revenue have either dropped or have been far greater to sustain..

Happy to be proven wrong though, but that specific line had a fair bit of gut feel about it

Fair enough.

Crowds- as mentioned earlier were relatively steady from 2000 (2966pp) to 2012 (2880pp), with a few years were the average tipped 3k (3236 in 2011 for example- perhaps coinciding with both AFL sides being rubbish)

I cant really comment on sponsors/memberships/financials etc. Would be interesting to know though.

The standard of the on-field product over that period is also difficult to truly assess. Gut feel is that is has declined, but the AFL-style ‘modern’ game doesn’t do the spectacle too many favours either.

[MW]

It's only natural for players and spectators to migrate to the biggest competition in the land.

Before Crows came into the AFL, players were already leaving to go to the VFL/AFL because of more money/opportunities/better comp. Only the die hards stayed behind.

As soon as the Crows came in, it gave more players a chance to play in the best comp, and spectators a chance to see games live on the biggest stage. SANFL suffered because of that. Progress.

Port gained the 2nd license, Port players and supporters did the same as the new Crows players and supporters started attending the AFL games instead. Progress.

AFL reserves sides in the SANFL has no impact IMO, it was already going to decline with Crows and Port in the AFL for the reasons mentioned above.

If you wanted the SANFL to stay in it's purity, Crows and Port cannot exist in the AFL and they never should have been allowed. BUT that was never going to happen because SA footy would have been left behind. So SANFL needs to re-evaluate it's place. IMO that is looking more and more likely to be as an amateur competition.

[tipper]

I've said at least three times now that the AFL reserves has impacted crowd numbers. I am really not sure how much clearer I can be.

What I am saying is it really isn't the biggest issue affecting the SANFL. You're buried in minutiae and micro level stuff and ignoring the macro.

but you are still denying that the drop in crowds is a major impact. if the powers attendances dropped by a third over 1 season you lot would have the tarps back quick smart and you would be looking for handouts again. if that is micro level you must have a really weird scale you are using.

[Dutchy]

Strip back all the financials and the crowd sizes etc and you still have 2 teams who do not care if they win or lose in a once proud competition.

That itself is enough for me not to support it financially.

[tipper]

The pathways for kids is very broad. You have your junior grassroots club, school footy and auskick.

I think we will see more a more resources poured into grassroots junior development. So your PHOS Camdens, Paynehams, etc as the main vehicle for junior development, then I think there will be an elite junior comp setup, like the TAC cup in Victoria, for the final phase before the AFL.

yes and no. to get drafted isnt there an agreement in place that players have to be on an sanfl list? they cant get drafted from the ammos. sanfl is still the final step in the pathway before afl.

Which could be ripped up by the AFL in about 20 seconds should they decide the structure here isn't working.

seems to have worked well so far. why trash the sanfl, and do things the way victoria do them? just because? is the afl really that threatened by the sanfl getting 3k people to its games that it has to try to diminsh it further? why cant the sanfl be a viable comp, as well as the afl doing well? why cant we have both?

Actually it hasnt. Numbers of SA kids getting drafted to the AFL are decreasing. We just had *6* kids drafted in 2016. Six. Let that sink in.

instead, you are planning the dismantling of the entire structure of sa footy, all so it can be further controlled by afl house, without any proven benefits to footy in this state. find a solution for the afl ressies, that doesnt kill off over 100 years of footy in south australia. surely for someone as smart as you it shouldnt be that hard should it?

Sure.

1. Increase AFL squads to 65, remove rookie list but instead have a list of dedicated reserves players. Players can be upgraded or downgraded.
2. Include mid year AFL top up draft to replace injuries.
3. Fund AFL Reserves - perhaps sell the rights to the games to another TV channel. Ensure branding is consistent.
4. Merge SANFL with AdFL, make current SANFL teams the "Premier League", include promotion and relegation.
5. Remove/merge SANFL junior structure with AdFL junior development.
6. Instill Elite U18s 8 team comp for selected junior talent designed around AFL draft.

#3 is the hard one as others have mentioned.

You can still go and watch the Roosters play at Prospect and sing their song. Your kids can still play for them, but it would be more streamlined/sustainable and designed around ensuring the AFL is the pinnacle and the Crows and Power are able to be competitive with the other sides - not SANFL traditions.

so 6 kids drafted in 1 year and all of a sudden it isnt working? once again cherry picking stats to suit your argument. 1 poor year is no reason to hit panic stations surely? (insert "and dont call me shirley" joke here) in other years clubs have had 6 drafted just from the one side.

and you are still killing off the sanfl, for no benefit. what is with this determination to kill it off? you can do most of your suggestions while leaving the sanfl alone. and promotion/relegation? no thanks, this isnt soccer (that and North would surely be relegated to about div 8...)

and trust me, this isnt about watching my kids play. if they get their talent from me, they wont get anywhere near playing for the roosters (even at their current level)

[UK Fan]

You provided an op-ed piece. Not a citation. Might as well type up a blog and link that. You then stated I should look up the SANFL financial statements, which I did, and nothing in there added up to 16M either.

You have now changed your argument - as shown by your original post being edited 3 times - to try and claim that you weren't inferring Port received 16M in bail out money to now fluff it out to be some sort of wishy washy "cost to sa football". Whatever that means. I suspect that is because you've taken a Whicker comment as gospel and now realise it isn't quite accurate.

I, however, did provide an SANFL link which shows Port paid 6M to the SANFL for its license. Despite your claims that was exaggerated.

Your new argument states that "SA Football wasted 16M on Port". Then you just now admit that a lot of that money was for the Crows and that a large swathe of it was from the AFL in the form of a loan/grant.

So all in all SA Football didn't waste anything like 16M on Port - that was just your blinkered and myopic football anti-Port worldview talking and a bit of Whicker propaganda. Once you factor in Port paying 6M for the license it's balanced out at best for the SANFL and if anything the money the SANFL get through their SMA deal at the AO the SANFL are probably in front.

As for your questions:

1. Rucci's job is to sell papers. He does this either by flaming the Crows supporter base or writing anti-Port articles. An accurate and detailed account of money transfers really isn't something your average Advertiser reader wants to digest over the Sunday morning tea and crumpets, especially if it doesn't feed into the anti-Port echo-chamber.

2. See #1

3. See #1

4. Koch's job is to promote Port Adelaide as a brand, improve the bottom line and move on, most of this happened before his tenure. He also had to molly coddle the SANFL to get the AO deal over the line. Koch is strategic and pragmatic - going into historical financial palaver would do him and the club no good.

5. See #4.

No, only a teeny tiny minority of old school sad old men SANFL supporters tow your anti Port line. Many of them have seemingly congregated in this thread. The rest of the football community has moved on. Just like Port. I suggest you do too.

Perhaps come over the to the D7 thread and make your bones, they're a bit smarter there.

Actually I was directly quoting the article if you read it. The total cost to "Sa football" was about......

Not total cost between us and the AFl. I mean how the **** would Whicker even know what the AFl has given the PAFC all up ???? He dont work for the AFl mate.


http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/sport/afl ... 572c1dbaea

I guess John Olsen hates PAFC as well.

So that would be two SANFl presidents quoting the $16 million figure and 99.9% of sa football supporters. And they are backed up by the independent auditors reports in the SANFL financials. WHich you have conveniently missed.

Ive provided 2 references quoting the $16 million plus I referred you to the SANFLs debt increasing year on year on its balance sheet, plus the auditors report on the SANFL financials which spells it out completely.

But As Tipper has stated its not my job to spoon feed you.

And even though you are an AFL club supporter with a massive opinion of yourself. That doesnt make the rules any different for you.

So When/if you can reference anything that completely disproves PAFC did not cost SA football $16 million please go ahead. Until what Morell "reckons" is simply irrelevant without proof. So do everyone a favor as previously mentioned and go back to the Div 7 forum.

And leave the SANFLs issues to the adults. As you are clearly out of your depth.

[human_torpedo]

Strip back all the financials and the crowd sizes etc and you still have 2 teams who do not care if they win or lose in a once proud competition.

That itself is enough for me not to support it financially.

The integrity of the comp has been shredded absolutely no doubt.. Like you said, 2 teams are basically only in it for 'development'. In a competition you cant have a side containing a player who potentially gets paid more than the entire oppositions salary cap. Then throw in the professionals v semi-pro at best debate..

The only issue for me is that why does it stop people going and supporting your club against 'pure' SANFL sides like years gone by? I still went and watched the Eagles whenever possible, despite my disdain for what has happened to the integrity of the comp, in the end Eagles v Centrals for example will always be a game I follow with interest, despite what the reserves sides are doing..

[MW]

Maybe you boycotters should support your SANFL teams.

[Booney]

And leave the SANFLs issues to the adults.

Yeah, so we can throw our toys out the cot. Or make a banner. We'll show 'em!

[UK Fan]

And leave the SANFLs issues to the adults.

Yeah, so we can throw our toys out the cot. Or make a banner. We'll show 'em!

Maybe we should all walk from rundle mall holding hands to adelaide oval on match days.

That will show them.

[MW]

It would...as you would be attending the game, not sitting on a forum with the other 50-60 year old men living in a bygone era.