Falling Attendances

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Falling Attendances

Postby Reddeer » Sun Sep 04, 2016 1:46 pm

The attendances at SANFL are on the decline and have been for several years
The introduction of the AFL teams is probably one of the reasons but as the fans of the golden years have aged and are unable to attend or have departed totally they are not being replaced by the younger generation. In todays technical based society there are too many other activities to pursue with the Iphones etc etc If you are keen on Aussie Rules you just attend the highest level. Any youngsters coming along now will not have an allegiance to any SANFL club accept Port or Crows so the original clubs will be on a slow but gradual demise and thus so eventually will the SANFL
The SANFL under its present leadership has little interest in promoting the comp at a decent level, as they are just happy to have the perks that the AFL provide them. Why would they once they get themselves into that ivory tower vote their privileges away
The so called independant commission should be disbanded ASAP as they are all fat cats who have no real passion for the comp at all
Sadly there is no way back and what we once had is gone forever
In any case whatever TV owners want to have they get. They are the real controllers
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Re: Falling Attendances

Postby Tony Clifton » Sun Sep 04, 2016 9:59 pm

Need to settle the program down and play a more regular timeslot.

I understand why they don't like to go head to head with Port or Adelaide AFL games but I think avoiding these clashes has led to a worse problem, which is that even the regular attendees get out of the routine of going. No one knows when the games are on.

The occasional Friday night game is fine (though not in the dead of winter...) and Anzac Day, Queen's Birthday etc but the bulk of matches should be on Saturday afternoon IMO. Or Sunday afternoon if the figures say that will deliver the best results. Either way, needs to be a regular thing.
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Re: Falling Attendances

Postby VALE PARK » Sun Sep 04, 2016 10:38 pm

Yes the SANFL have been slow to pick up on this,quite obvious really just ask the fans!
The biggest negative contributor has been the byes.
Obvious since the program came out.
I expect we have seen the last of this own goal into 2017 though.
Mind you what do we know!
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Re: Falling Attendances

Postby Dog_ger2 » Sat Sep 10, 2016 2:38 pm

SANFL teams have a salary cap.

How does this work with Adelaide and Port?

Just asking.. :D
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Re: Falling Attendances

Postby Apachebulldog » Sat Sep 10, 2016 6:41 pm

Dog_ger2 wrote:SANFL teams have a salary cap.

How does this work with Adelaide and Port?

Just asking.. :D





Crows &Powah & AFL clubs salary cap of approx 10.5 million dollars each SANFL clubs salary cap of $360,00 each.
SANFL 2000 - 2011 Central District 12 consecutive Grand Final appearances and 9 Premierships.

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Re: Falling Attendances

Postby csbowes » Wed Sep 14, 2016 10:56 am

Apachebulldog wrote:
Dog_ger2 wrote:SANFL teams have a salary cap.

How does this work with Adelaide and Port?

Just asking.. :D


Crows &Powah & AFL clubs salary cap of approx 10.5 million dollars each SANFL clubs salary cap of $360,00 each.


More importantly, the week to week difference is probably something like $2m versus $360K. A lot less of a difference granted, but the fact is week in and week out, a team 5-6 times the value is competing against us. Any $$ represent underlying talent.

A zero AFL game player in the Crows reserves is not a zero SANFL game player.
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Re: Falling Attendances

Postby csbowes » Wed Sep 14, 2016 10:59 am

I know there are bits of crowd stats in several threads, is it possible to have one post which shows :-

(a) total minor round attendances from 2000 to present
(b) total major round attendances from 2000 to present (broken down by finals week if possible)
(c) average minor round crowds per team from 2000 to present

I think that would clearly allow everyone to reference it / copy it in emails to clubs and the league when asking for explanations. It would also clearly show what trends there are year to year by league, by finals, by club.

Over to those guys who are the stats masters! :-)
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Re: Falling Attendances

Postby therisingblues » Wed Sep 14, 2016 2:09 pm

csbowes wrote:I know there are bits of crowd stats in several threads, is it possible to have one post which shows :-

(a) total minor round attendances from 2000 to present
(b) total major round attendances from 2000 to present (broken down by finals week if possible)
(c) average minor round crowds per team from 2000 to present

I think that would clearly allow everyone to reference it / copy it in emails to clubs and the league when asking for explanations. It would also clearly show what trends there are year to year by league, by finals, by club.

Over to those guys who are the stats masters! :-)

I agree, I've seen the figures on here that shows peaks and troughs between 1999 and 2012 (significant year in that the reserves debate really gathered momentum and the SANFL began contravening their own rules concerning mid season player swaps), but I believe that overall there'd been no significant loss of crowds, and perhaps even an increase?
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Re: Falling Attendances

Postby Aerie » Wed Sep 14, 2016 9:48 pm

therisingblues wrote:
csbowes wrote:I know there are bits of crowd stats in several threads, is it possible to have one post which shows :-

(a) total minor round attendances from 2000 to present
(b) total major round attendances from 2000 to present (broken down by finals week if possible)
(c) average minor round crowds per team from 2000 to present

I think that would clearly allow everyone to reference it / copy it in emails to clubs and the league when asking for explanations. It would also clearly show what trends there are year to year by league, by finals, by club.

Over to those guys who are the stats masters! :-)

I agree, I've seen the figures on here that shows peaks and troughs between 1999 and 2012 (significant year in that the reserves debate really gathered momentum and the SANFL began contravening their own rules concerning mid season player swaps), but I believe that overall there'd been no significant loss of crowds, and perhaps even an increase?


Yes, I think there was an increase in the mid to late 2000's. From 2007 through to 2011, despite Central winning 4 flags, they had Eagles, North, Glenelg, Sturt and Norwood as opponents in the Grand Finals. The finals crowds were excellent at Adelaide Oval for the double headers and dipped when they went back to Footy Park with the renovation at AO.

For the couple of years before Reserves in the SANFL, when Port Power took over the Magpies, the stench started. The season when the decision was made people were already dropping off.

The likes of Bassett, Godden, Collins brought in AFL style game plans and umpires started to umpire in a more AFL style. A far cry from the free flowing footy of the Phillips, Jarman, Fuller era. Around 05/06 the SANFL was higher scoring footy than AFL. Now it is the opposite.

I think the SANFL still has plenty to offer. Just not as a Reserves league.
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Re: Falling Attendances

Postby therisingblues » Fri Sep 16, 2016 3:08 pm

Well Bowes, I am not a regular stats contributor but here are a few figures posted by others on here not too long ago. I also think it is useful to have them all in one place.


TOTAL SANFL SEASON CROWDS
(As at end of Preliminary Final)

2008 - 324,668 (up 32,292 from 2007)
2007 - 292,376
2006 - 284,702
2005 - 274,717
2004 - 288,153
2003 - 285,016
2002 - 316,872
2001 - 317,757
2000 - 314,269
The biggest SEASON total (including grand final) this decade was 2002 with 352,059

A Grand Final crowd on Sunday of 27,392 will surpass that.

Total Final Series Attendances (inc GF)
2008 - 52,329 (Grand Final to come)
2007 - 64,523
2006 - 54,406
2005 - 56,118
2004 - 59,263
2003 - 53,078*
2002 - 72,946
2001 - 65,330
2000 - 82,106

* NB the 2003 series was a final four

A crowd of 29,778 at the Grand Final will surpass the current highest total this decade of 82,106 from the 2000 series.

NB - these are my (sic. Phil H's) figures collated from the newspaper reports, may differ with SANFL official figures.
(Sourced: Phil H, page 1 "SANFL Crowds Booming" thread.)

1996-1999 minor round totals
1999 - 327,115 (2 less games due to curtain raisers)
1998 - 369,984 (3 less games)
1997 - 312,397 (8 less games)
1996 - 399,676 (5 less games)

Finals:
1999 - 85,082
1998 - 93,910
1997 - 92,608
1996 - 127,307
(Sourced: Spell Check, page 1 "SANFL Crowds Booming" thread.)

1997 - 2015 Average attendances to 2nd week of May
This is from 1997 up to the 2nd week of May, to compare like for like:

1997: 3957 (24 matches, to Rd 7)
1998: 4132 (27, Rd 7)
1999: 3711 (27, Rd 7)
2000: 3296 (39, Rd 10)
2001: 4005 (27, Rd 7)
2002: 3761 (27, Rd 7)
2003: 3306 (27, Rd 7)
2004: 3589 (23, Rd 6)
2005: 3241 (27, Rd 7)
2006: 3256 (27, Rd 7)
2007: 3262 (23, Rd 6)
2008: 3672 (28, Rd 7)
2009: 3173 (28, Rd 7)
2010: 3580 (28, Rd 7)
2011: 3639 (23, Rd 6)
2012: 3286 (30, Rd 8)
2013: 3407 (24, Rd 6)
2014: 3357 (25, Rd 6)
2015: 2637 (27, Rd 6)
(Sourced: Spell Check, page 1 "2016 SANFL Crowds.)
2016 Alberton record low crowd
According to media reports we had 1403 at Alberton

That is the lowest ever non-estimated crowd figure at Alberton; previous lowest was 1,536 - Rd 16 last year vs Central; a match involving West was 1,889 - Rd 22 2002
(Sourced: Spell Check and Phil H, page 2 "2016 SANFL Crowds.)
Lowest Recorded Crowd in SANFL History
But crowds have fallen again in 2016 and a fortnight ago just 938 people — the lowest recorded crowd in SANFL history — watched South Adelaide celebrate its 140th anniversary against Port Adelaide at Noarlunga.
(Sourced: Panther Pack, quoting Messenger article by David Penrose, page 4 "2016 SANFL Crowds.)

Home Crowds 2016
(compared with same number of home games in 2015)
As at Monday July 11th 2016

Central 6 home games +2928
Eagles 7 home games +1300

South 7 home games - 102
West 7 home games -833
North 7 home games -1203
Sturt 6 home games -1424
Glenelg 7 home games -2183
Norwood 7 home games -3244
Port 6 home games -6511
(Sourced: Phil H, page 6 "2016 SANFL Crowds.)

2016 Crowds v 2013 Crowds (after same number of home games)
As at Monday July 11th 2016

Central +1479 ( +10.5%) 7 home games
Sturt +1424 ( + 8.6%) 6 home games
Eagles + 249 (+ 1.5%) 7 home games

Glenelg - 636 ( - 2.9%) 7HG
South - 2598 (- 17.9%) 7HG
West - 4767 (- 26.8%) 7HG
North - 5982 (- 29.9%) 7HG
Port -6882 (-36.1%) 6HG
Norwood -6957 (-23.7%) 7HG
(Sourced: Phil H, page 6 "2016 SANFL Crowds.)
Cheers Phil. Youch, a drop of about 20%. At this rate noone will be at games in 2028. :(
There's no way the current model can work, all SANFL fans should be opposed to it.
(Sourced: Wedgie, page 6 "2016 SANFL Crowds.)

FINAL FIGURES ARE IN (Bar any late adjustments)

2016 HOME CROWD AVERAGES (Crows not included)

#1 Norwood 2953pg down 349pg 10.6%
#2 Sturt 2845pg UP 15pg 0.5%
#3 Glenelg 2766pg down 440pg -13.7%
#4 Central 2381pg UP 403pg 20.4%
#5 Eagles 2306pg UP 76pg 3.4%
#6 Port 2191pg down 671pg -23.4%
#7 North 1922pg down 132pg -6.4%
#8 West 1809pg down 94pg -5.0%
#9 South 1614pg down 74pg -4.4%


HOME AND AWAY CROWD AVERAGES

HOME AND AWAY CROWD AVERAGES

#1 Sturt 2654pg down 158pg 5.6%
#2 Norwood 2649pg down 588pg 18.2%
#3 Glenelg 2638pg = same as 2015
#4 Adelaide 2490pg UP 39pg 1.6%
#5 Eagles 2366pg UP 19pg 0.8%
#6 Central 2252pg UP 143pg 6.8%
#7 North 2232pg UP 131pg 6.2%
#8 Port 2222ph down 314pg -12.4%
#9 West 1931pg down 226pg -10.5%
#10 South 2034pg down 314pg -15.9%

SANFL Average 2314pg down 127pg 5.2%

(Sourced: Phil H, page 7 "2016 SANFL Crowds.)
SANFL average minor Round Crowd Averages 2009-2012 and 2016
2016- 2314
....
2012- 2880
2011- 3236
2010- 3073
2009- 2924

So close to a 30% drop in 5 years, and 21% since 2009.

Source is the 2013 SANFL Annual Report. Interesting that i didn't notice any attendance data in the 2015 report, unlike the previous editions.
(Sourced: Saintal, page 8 "2016 SANFL Crowds.)

2000-2016 Week 1 and Week 2 of Finals Crowds
2016 week1: 8,351 week 2: both at Adelaide Oval
2015 week1: 8,031 week 2: 9,247 both at Adelaide Oval
2014 week1: 12,147 week 2: 13,431 both at Adelaide Oval
2013 week1: 5,866 week 2: 9,248 both at Football Park Poor finals crowds but GF Norwood v North 36,685
2012 week 1 7,126 week 2: 10,284 both at Football Park
2011 week1: 9,192 week 2: 11,443 both at Football Park
2010 week1: 11,449 week 2: 13,162 both at Football Park
2009 week1: 10,192 week 2: 14,207 both at Football Park
2008 week1: 15,825 week 2: 22,568 both at Adelaide Oval Port v Norwood, Central v Sturt; Sturt v Norwood, Glenelg v Central
2007 week1: 11,746 week 2: 14,764 both at Adelaide Oval
2006 week1: 11,902 week 2: 9,328 both at Adelaide Oval
2005 week1: 9,434 Adelaide Oval week 2: 12,056 Football Park
2004 week1: 11,842 Adelaide Oval week 2: 13,081 Football Park
2003 week1: 6,211 Football Park week 2: 8,145 Football Park - Top 4, both stand alone games
2002 week1: 10,765 week 2: 12,467 both at Football Park
2001 week1: 10,898 week 2: 18,463 both at Football Park
2000 week1: 15,539 week 2: 20,321 both at Football Park

Norwood West defensive zone game starts to take effect from 2012.
2014 Adelaide Oval redevelopment

source of crowd figures http://australianfootball.com/seasons/s ... ying-final

(Sourced: Wild Dog, page 273, "The Never Ending No AFL in the SANFL Whinge Thread")
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Re: Falling Attendances

Postby saintal » Sat Sep 17, 2016 10:42 am

csbowes wrote:(a) total minor round attendances from 2000 to present


Minor around averages (Source- Spelly and SANFL Annual Reports)
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Re: Falling Attendances

Postby Aerie » Sat Sep 17, 2016 10:48 am

What years were the price increases? From memory it was $8 for a long time, then shifted to $10 possibly around 2009 and then up to $14 for the 2012 season?

SANFL has no one to blame but themselves for the demise in this competition. The coaches and players do everything possible to keep the standard high, but the administration has made mistake after mistake.
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Re: Falling Attendances

Postby Panther Pack » Thu May 18, 2017 4:59 pm

From the Tiser today:

Bone’s beef: Where have the SANFL crowds gone?
Chris McDermott, The Advertiser
May 18, 2017 11:00am

SANFL crowds are always a very unpopular topic to put under the microscope but facts are clear and indisputable. We have a problem and its getting worse.

When less than 1500 turn up at Woodville Oval to watch the premiership favourites in Woodville-West Torrens take on the Crows, poor crowds can no longer be denied.

After five rounds of the 2017 season there is a trend forming. Four of the five best attendances have come at night. The other on Anzac Day.

Port Adelaide, Glenelg, Norwood and Sturt have all featured in two of them and 4799 is the biggest crowd figure so far.

The five worst crowds have come, (or failed to come) on Saturday afternoons, 1348 the worst and that was to a SANFL Showdown when Port Adelaide defeated Adelaide at Maughan Thiem Hyundai Oval.

The Crows have featured in three of the five worst corwds so far this season and 12 of the 25 games played so far have attracted crowds of less than 2100.

That number has risen from nine of the first 25 games the previous season.

In 2016, a year where crowd numbers noticeably slumped, 5000 witnessed the season opener, down to 3500 in 2017.

Nine times attendances broke the 3000 barrier, which is happened just six times so far in 2017.

It is time to find a solution and put every aspect of the SANFL on the table to find the right model for the foreseeable future. Nothing must be taken for granted.

Not when it is played. Not why it is played. Not how it is played. Not who it is played by.

The Crows and the Power have not been the magic bullet everyone imagined.

The two teams gave the competition a brief spike but it died just as quickly.

Less than 1500 to a Crows game says it all.

Get it right or it will die. Get it right means get what it stands for and get who it appeals to.

If it isn’t a good product, fans will not go.

Don't use it as a training ground for future AFL rules, like the last touch out of bounds. Don’t butcher the SANFL to feather the AFL’s nest.

Whispers in corridors continue about a possible move by the Crows to the VFL.

If one goes the other will surely follow.

The loss of the two AFL clubs reserve teams will have little impact on the game at SANFL level, except to the diehard supporters that turn up rain, hail or shine.

Suburban clubs do not appear to be suffering a similar fate.

Gary McIntosh has done remarkable things with Payneham Norwood Union in the Adelaide Footy League.

Mark Ricciuto, Dale Fleming, David Pittman, Richard Kelly, Chris Thredgold and others have done likewise at Glenunga. Kids are turning up in massive numbers.

The women are sure to follow with the explosion of their game. Both great for participation and for the game at that level.

We fear at times for the game at the highest level, the AFL, but we turn up regardless.

We must fear equally if not more for the game at the level below. The game we all remember and the clubs we all loved.

There must be a solution, not just a resignation.

Just a though but maybe the SANFL should go back to $10 entry & advertise how cheap the league is, people do love a bargain.
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Re: Falling Attendances

Postby saintal » Thu May 18, 2017 5:08 pm

The Crows and the Power have not been the magic bullet everyone imagined.

Bone obviously had his head in the sand (or elsewhere..) during 2013. Nothing but a well trained Crows Media Puppet back in his 5AAFL days.
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Re: Falling Attendances

Postby VALE PARK » Thu May 18, 2017 6:08 pm

Why falling crowds and interest,
it will get worse.
Crows and Power(Magpies) presence.
Byes and split rounds.
No radio coverage.
Poor all round promotion of the competition.
Streaming of games via internet.
Falling clubs salary caps.
Interesting I went to a recent Payneham game and struggled to find a car park.
Then had to wait until 5.00 pm when I got home to find out the league results!
No wonder with all above I gave up my SANFL membership and have joined an ammos club in 2017.
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Re: Falling Attendances

Postby vics01 » Thu May 18, 2017 8:46 pm

The women are sure to follow with the explosion of their game. Both great for participation and for the game at that level.


Roo little kids will play and may follow it for a while, however my teenage daughter and her friends have continually said they want to watch the boys play not the butch play.
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Re: Falling Attendances

Postby Panther Pack » Fri May 19, 2017 10:18 am

What would be people's suggestions to increasing crowds at SANFL games?

More Night Games?
Cheaper Entry Fee?
More advertising of league?
Return of games called on the radio?
An amateur level game played either before or after the SANFL?
Buy 1 get 1 free entry into games (maybe organised through local schools or local footy clubs for each SANFL club?
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Re: Falling Attendances

Postby Jim05 » Fri May 19, 2017 10:22 am

Panther Pack wrote:What would be people's suggestions to increasing crowds at SANFL games?

More Night Games?
Cheaper Entry Fee?
More advertising of league?
Return of games called on the radio?
An amateur level game played either before or after the SANFL?
Buy 1 get 1 free entry into games (maybe organised through local schools or local footy clubs for each SANFL club?

Boot the two parasite AFL reserves clubs out would be a start or at the very least severely restrict their playing list so they aren't competitive
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Re: Falling Attendances

Postby Pseudo » Fri May 19, 2017 11:25 am

Panther Pack wrote:What would be people's suggestions to increasing crowds at SANFL games?

More Night Games?
Cheaper Entry Fee?
More advertising of league?
Return of games called on the radio?
An amateur level game played either before or after the SANFL?
Buy 1 get 1 free entry into games (maybe organised through local schools or local footy clubs for each SANFL club?


^ That one. The diehards and members are going to turn up almost irrespective of cost. A lower admission fee would do more to draw in the casual punter.

I suppose the flip side is that it makes membership less value for money. However I doubt that people take out membership for the value.
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Re: Falling Attendances

Postby gadj1976 » Fri May 19, 2017 6:11 pm

Died in the wool Sturt supporter, but I'd rather travel 5 mins down the road to watch a Div 1 ammo game than pay to go and see an SANFL game at the moment.

Location, cost, standard of footy and having a beer with mates are high on my list of priorities when considering what game to watch.
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