Port Adelaide 2017

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Re: Port Adelaide 2017

Postby bertiebeatle » Tue Jul 25, 2017 11:08 am

Hombsch & Pittard will both come in this week. Were our best 2 for the Maggies on Sunday

Amon still looked like he needed another run with the magpies
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Re: Port Adelaide 2017

Postby bertiebeatle » Tue Jul 25, 2017 11:12 am

am Bays wrote:
morell wrote:If necessary.

You blokes will blow your tops when I start reeling out some choropleth maps.


Your "pretty charts" and "numbers arranged in columns" are pretty much meaningless until you provide a standard error of estimate/validation of the precision of champion data's "numbers" particularly when there is no quotient provided for inter-measurer reliability given the vast cohort of statisticians that they use.

PS my "eyes" tell me from Sunday that if you play Eddy this week give the 4 pt to St Kilda now.

i thoughts Pittards remonstrates where much improved on the weekend along with his stumbles. He is certainly playing with a much tighter man-bun ATM



Eddy was invisible Sunday. The smalls had a field day where as he had no impact. Surprising considering the conditions were quite nice
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Re: Port Adelaide 2017

Postby Booney » Tue Jul 25, 2017 11:14 am

bertiebeatle wrote:Hombsch & Pittard will both come in this week. Were our best 2 for the Maggies on Sunday

Amon still looked like he needed another run with the magpies


Two good judges tell me Young, Ah Chee and Amon were all better than the two mentioned above. One tells me, and I heard in the call, Pittard very lucky to escape the wrath of the SANFL tribunal.

Who do we drop for Pittard and Hombsch then?
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Re: Port Adelaide 2017

Postby bertiebeatle » Tue Jul 25, 2017 11:53 am

Booney wrote:
bertiebeatle wrote:Hombsch & Pittard will both come in this week. Were our best 2 for the Maggies on Sunday

Amon still looked like he needed another run with the magpies


Two good judges tell me Young, Ah Chee and Amon were all better than the two mentioned above. One tells me, and I heard in the call, Pittard very lucky to escape the wrath of the SANFL tribunal.

Who do we drop for Pittard and Hombsch then?



He is lucky to avoid the tribunal!

Young will come in for Wingard. AhChee & Johnson were good i thought as well.

Would say Hombsch will come back in for Austin and Pittard for Atley.

Don't necessarily agree with it, but i feel that is what will happen.
I think Pittard even though i thought he was good, could spend this week in the SANFL and give Atley another game before making the change for the showdown
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Re: Port Adelaide 2017

Postby morell » Tue Jul 25, 2017 12:09 pm

bertiebeatle wrote:
am Bays wrote:
morell wrote:If necessary.

You blokes will blow your tops when I start reeling out some choropleth maps.


Your "pretty charts" and "numbers arranged in columns" are pretty much meaningless until you provide a standard error of estimate/validation of the precision of champion data's "numbers" particularly when there is no quotient provided for inter-measurer reliability given the vast cohort of statisticians that they use.

PS my "eyes" tell me from Sunday that if you play Eddy this week give the 4 pt to St Kilda now.

i thoughts Pittards remonstrates where much improved on the weekend along with his stumbles. He is certainly playing with a much tighter man-bun ATM



Eddy was invisible Sunday. The smalls had a field day where as he had no impact. Surprising considering the conditions were quite nice
The smalls wouldn't have been able to have such an impact if there wasn't a key position forward there to spread the defense, create holes, impact contests and bring the ball down. They're interconnected, in other words.

But I didn't see the game, but to be honest I don't really care who it is. We need another tall and/or bigger bodied forward in the Power side so Trengove can go back to his primary role. Pick whatever player fits the role who is in the best form out of:

Eddy
Marshall
Howard
Frampton

It also means we can drop Austin, who was absolutely awful, and put an experienced defender in his place. All the forward needs to do is equal what Trengove has been providing and no-one will convince me that anyone on that list above would do a worse job up forward.

So it's not about their direct output, but rather the boost in output it will provide others around them.
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Re: Port Adelaide 2017

Postby Jim05 » Tue Jul 25, 2017 12:29 pm

You could put your Reserves side out on the park and beat the Saints this week. They are ordinary
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Re: Port Adelaide 2017

Postby Brodlach » Tue Jul 25, 2017 12:31 pm

Booney wrote:
Ruben Carter wrote:
carey wrote:
morell wrote:morell's selection table :

Out - Wingard (inj), Austin, Impey
In - Eddy, Amon, Johnson



Young will come in for Wingard, they'll also bring Pittard back.

Surely Hombsch and Amon come back in?


Amon has had two runs back,I think he comes in to replace White on the outside. While White has more pace he's not got the finishing skills of Amon.

Hombsch, from what I understand, hasn't been super in his two games at SANFL level ( I haven't seen either, away for one and crook the other ) so unless match ups dictate I think Austin might stay in the side ahead of him.

Saw Bassett on the news and he sort of indicated Austin would be dropped after having a dirty day on Saturday
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Re: Port Adelaide 2017

Postby bertiebeatle » Tue Jul 25, 2017 1:48 pm

morell wrote:
bertiebeatle wrote:
am Bays wrote:
morell wrote:If necessary.

You blokes will blow your tops when I start reeling out some choropleth maps.


Your "pretty charts" and "numbers arranged in columns" are pretty much meaningless until you provide a standard error of estimate/validation of the precision of champion data's "numbers" particularly when there is no quotient provided for inter-measurer reliability given the vast cohort of statisticians that they use.

PS my "eyes" tell me from Sunday that if you play Eddy this week give the 4 pt to St Kilda now.

i thoughts Pittards remonstrates where much improved on the weekend along with his stumbles. He is certainly playing with a much tighter man-bun ATM



Eddy was invisible Sunday. The smalls had a field day where as he had no impact. Surprising considering the conditions were quite nice
The smalls wouldn't have been able to have such an impact if there wasn't a key position forward there to spread the defense, create holes, impact contests and bring the ball down. They're interconnected, in other words.

But I didn't see the game, but to be honest I don't really care who it is. We need another tall and/or bigger bodied forward in the Power side so Trengove can go back to his primary role. Pick whatever player fits the role who is in the best form out of:

Eddy
Marshall
Howard
Frampton

It also means we can drop Austin, who was absolutely awful, and put an experienced defender in his place. All the forward needs to do is equal what Trengove has been providing and no-one will convince me that anyone on that list above would do a worse job up forward.

So it's not about their direct output, but rather the boost in output it will provide others around them.


Don't get me wrong, agree 100% in regards to key forwards and their impact to bring small forwards into the game. Just didn't notice it from him on Sunday and he did tend to play further up the ground at times so the smalls were able to get over the back. We did kick a lot of goals from the midfield as well. I would love Trengove to go back into defence and bring an Eddy or Frampton in, but just can't see it happening. I thought Frampton and Drew had 'nearly' games there on Sunday. Were both on the verge of breaking the game open at times, but just didnt go on with it and ended up with just an average game
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Re: Port Adelaide 2017

Postby morell » Tue Jul 25, 2017 2:10 pm

We've had players break open the game and we still don't pick them.

They'd obviously have more information than us I understand that. And I get that on a spectrum of Structure vs Form I'm a far left extremist and it seems Ken is far right extremist, but just wish we would respect the roles the big lads provide a bit more.
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Re: Port Adelaide 2017

Postby Booney » Tue Jul 25, 2017 2:12 pm

morell wrote:We've had player break open the game and we still don't pick them.

They'd obviously have more information than us I understand that. And I get that on a spectrum of Structure vs Form I'm a far left extremist and it seems Ken is far right extremist, but just wish we would respect the roles the big lads provide a bit more.


You obviously don't listen to Ken talk up the importance of the selfless nature of Dixon's games on a regular basis then?
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Re: Port Adelaide 2017

Postby morell » Tue Jul 25, 2017 2:23 pm

Would be good if he didn't have to be selfless though and could concentrate on taking marks and kicking goals instead of being everywhere for everyone at all times in every game.

The bloke's efforts this year have honestly been extraordinary. He ought to be very high in the BnF, but imagine if he had a foil to take one of the defenders way? We've all seen what hes capable of when in a 1v1.

This is the thing, so many people get caught up on the individual "Howard isnt ready" "Eddy isnt in good form" "Marshall is too young" and forget the bigger picture of just them being there and the impact that has on the rest of the team. They don't have to set the world on fire or kick bags to be effective. They just have to play a role.

That role would allow Trengove to go back - replaces Austin - and it then means Dixon is more potent.

EDIT: an it also mean they get some game under their belt and their development fast tracked.
Last edited by morell on Tue Jul 25, 2017 2:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Port Adelaide 2017

Postby Booney » Tue Jul 25, 2017 2:27 pm

morell wrote:Would be good if he didn't have to be selfless though and could concentrate on taking marks and kicking goals instead of being everywhere for everyone at all times in every game.

The bloke's efforts this year have honestly been extraordinary. He ought to be very high in the BnF, but imagine if he had a foil to take one of the defenders way? We've all seen what hes when in a 1v1.

This is the thing, so many people get caught up on the individual "Howard isnt ready" "Eddy isnt in good form" "Marshall is too young" and forget the bigger picture of just them being there and the impact that has on the rest of the team. They don't have to set the world on fire or kick bags to be effective. They just have to play a role.

That role would allow Trengove to back - replaces Austin - and it then means Dixon is more potent.


Dixon - He is the foil, we're sitting 5th with 10 wins, 3 more than the same time last year.

Structure - Your argument is self defeating, Trengove is playing that role at the moment and we have the best defense in the league.
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Re: Port Adelaide 2017

Postby morell » Tue Jul 25, 2017 2:40 pm

Booney wrote:
morell wrote:Would be good if he didn't have to be selfless though and could concentrate on taking marks and kicking goals instead of being everywhere for everyone at all times in every game.

The bloke's efforts this year have honestly been extraordinary. He ought to be very high in the BnF, but imagine if he had a foil to take one of the defenders way? We've all seen what hes when in a 1v1.

This is the thing, so many people get caught up on the individual "Howard isnt ready" "Eddy isnt in good form" "Marshall is too young" and forget the bigger picture of just them being there and the impact that has on the rest of the team. They don't have to set the world on fire or kick bags to be effective. They just have to play a role.

That role would allow Trengove to back - replaces Austin - and it then means Dixon is more potent.


Dixon - He is the foil, we're sitting 5th with 10 wins, 3 more than the same time last year.
He is everything! That's the problem. He's only behind Gray as our leading goal kicker. He's taken the most marks. The most marks inside 50. We go to him more than any other target. If that's a "foil" then we have a different understanding of what that word means.

Booney wrote:Structure - Your argument is self defeating, Trengove is playing that role at the moment and we have the best defense in the league.
We have the best defense in the league because we've dominated the clearances and have crushed mediocre sides on the regular. How does the defense look when we break even in the midfield and are put under pressure vs good sides? It's still ok, but Trengove down there over Austin (or Hombsch) makes it stronger. If we do that and pick another tall forward, I honestly think the West Coast, Melbourne and Richmond games would be different. What does that do to our ladder position?

You might be happy being 5th (actually one game in the 8 ) with a soft draw. I want to be clear on top spot with a hard draw. I want flags, not middling mediocrity. Hence the previous analogy - "we're being coached like driving a Lamborghini with the hand brake on"

Port win games against lower level teams because we have more talent. Not though system or method. If we could get the system and structure right, I honestly believe we have the players and ability to be a truly dominant force. That's what makes it so frustrating.

I like Ken and want him as our coach, but he needs a mad scientist gun senior tactical coach in the Richardson/Walsh role
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Re: Port Adelaide 2017

Postby Booney » Tue Jul 25, 2017 2:52 pm

morell wrote: I want flags, not middling mediocrity.


We don't have the side to do the first part and we're like 10 other clubs on the second part.
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Re: Port Adelaide 2017

Postby Booney » Tue Jul 25, 2017 2:55 pm

morell wrote:
Booney wrote: Dixon - He is the foil, we're sitting 5th with 10 wins, 3 more than the same time last year.
He is everything! That's the problem. He's only behind Gray as our leading goal kicker. He's taken the most marks. The most marks inside 50. We go to him more than any other target. If that's a "foil" then we have a different understanding of what that word means.


I know exactly what the word means and it's testament to the season he's having. He's playing the role of the foil ( when he has to ) to allow Gray to have 40 goals as well as doing his part with 34 himself.
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Re: Port Adelaide 2017

Postby morell » Tue Jul 25, 2017 2:57 pm

I reckon we do. We have the talent, the age profile, the experience. We have all the parts, just have to get it together mentally and sort out our structural issues.

We can do it Booney!
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Re: Port Adelaide 2017

Postby Booney » Tue Jul 25, 2017 3:02 pm

morell wrote:
Booney wrote:Structure - Your argument is self defeating, Trengove is playing that role at the moment and we have the best defense in the league.


We have the best defense in the league because we've dominated the clearances and have crushed mediocre sides on the regular. How does the defense look when we break even in the midfield and are put under pressure vs good sides? It's still ok, but Trengove down there over Austin (or Hombsch) makes it stronger. If we do that and pick another tall forward, I honestly think the West Coast, Melbourne and Richmond games would be different. What does that do to our ladder position?

You might be happy being 5th (actually one game in the 8 ) with a soft draw. I want to be clear on top spot with a hard draw. I want flags, not middling mediocrity. Hence the previous analogy - "we're being coached like driving a Lamborghini with the hand brake on"

Port win games against lower level teams because we have more talent. Not though system or method. If we could get the system and structure right, I honestly believe we have the players and ability to be a truly dominant force. That's what makes it so frustrating.

I like Ken and want him as our coach, but he needs a mad scientist gun senior tactical coach in the Richardson/Walsh role


We have the best defense in the league as we hold the ball inside our F50 as much as anyone, our time inside forward half is ( IIRC ) competition best.

Part of that is because our mobile defenders can take advantage of deep entry into the F50 and press up to make it difficult for the opposition to break out. The back half is as reliant on the front half even more so than the midfield in the modern game > the likes of Impey, S.Gray, Neade ( when playing ) etc are there to apply pressure and lock it in as much as they are to create scoring opportunities.
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Re: Port Adelaide 2017

Postby Booney » Tue Jul 25, 2017 3:04 pm

morell wrote:I reckon we do. We have the talent, the age profile, the experience. We have all the parts, just have to get it together mentally and sort out our structural issues.

We can do it Booney!


Mentally I'll agree with, I think that's our biggest issue*, but structurally you and I as keypad warriors might like to think we've got an idea but we're ******* clueless in all reality.

Mind you, every coach across the top 10 teams would say the same thing. Applying yourself is easy, maintaining that level of application is the next step. Like you, me and our day to day work. :D
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Re: Port Adelaide 2017

Postby bertiebeatle » Tue Jul 25, 2017 3:08 pm

Again, all our issues come back to our disposal. Our structure and the way we play is fine (missed Sat due to local footy), but again our skills let us down. From what i have been told from someone that is heavily involved in the club and always says it how it is, it was the same again on Saturday
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Re: Port Adelaide 2017

Postby Booney » Tue Jul 25, 2017 3:11 pm

bertiebeatle wrote:Again, all our issues come back to our disposal. Our structure and the way we play is fine (missed Sat due to local footy), but again our skills let us down. From what i have been told from someone that is heavily involved in the club and always says it how it is, it was the same again on Saturday


All of this is fine but it's ignoring one pretty important factor, we're not as good as we want to be right now and there's always an opponent out there trying to do the same thing as us.
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