Abbott/Liberal Govt Watch

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Re: Abbott/Liberal Govt Watch

Postby cracka » Wed Dec 20, 2017 8:45 pm

Q. wrote:
cracka wrote:I'm half way through it & there are some terrible things happening, I agree. However it contradicts your claim below of it being just a LNP issue as a lot of the atrocities happened when the ALP were in government.
Q. wrote:That's why I don't get why lower and lower/middle class people vote for the LNP. Surely the gloss of brutalising refugees wears off when you realise your wage growth barely covers cost of living increases?


Have agreed it's a policy supported by both parties - http://www.safooty.net/forum/viewtopic. ... 4#p2225934

'Tough on Immigration' has been a selling point for both parties. My original statement was inferring that at what point does it not become a wedge issue and rising income inequality become one instead.

Yeah but your original inaccurate statement only put the LNP (and us lower class citizens) in a bad light, obviously because you lean towards the left.
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Re: Abbott/Liberal Govt Watch

Postby cracka » Wed Dec 20, 2017 8:47 pm

Q. wrote:
cracka wrote:Further reading has found some of the atrocities were committed by the asylum seekers themselves then they complain of being mistreated after they've murdered someone.


Outsourcing offshore detention is clearly failing and costing us billions in the process.

What'sthe solution. We've had onshore detention centres where riots have occurred too because the asylum seekers don't get what they want.
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Re: Abbott/Liberal Govt Watch

Postby Q. » Wed Dec 20, 2017 9:02 pm

cracka wrote:
Q. wrote:
cracka wrote:I'm half way through it & there are some terrible things happening, I agree. However it contradicts your claim below of it being just a LNP issue as a lot of the atrocities happened when the ALP were in government.
Q. wrote:That's why I don't get why lower and lower/middle class people vote for the LNP. Surely the gloss of brutalising refugees wears off when you realise your wage growth barely covers cost of living increases?


Have agreed it's a policy supported by both parties - viewtopic.php?p=2225934#p2225934

'Tough on Immigration' has been a selling point for both parties. My original statement was inferring that at what point does it not become a wedge issue and rising income inequality become one instead.

Yeah but your original inaccurate statement only put the LNP (and us lower class citizens) in a bad light, obviously because you lean towards the left.


It was questioning choosing brutal wedge policy over income equality. The LNP should be put in bad light - they've added $300 billion to the deficit and increased income inequality.

The left, the right - they inhabit all classes.
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Re: Abbott/Liberal Govt Watch

Postby Q. » Wed Dec 20, 2017 9:13 pm

cracka wrote:
Q. wrote:
cracka wrote:Further reading has found some of the atrocities were committed by the asylum seekers themselves then they complain of being mistreated after they've murdered someone.


Outsourcing offshore detention is clearly failing and costing us billions in the process.

What'sthe solution. We've had onshore detention centres where riots have occurred too because the asylum seekers don't get what they want.


A simplistic view.

For instance, the 2009 on Christmas Island were due primarily to overcrowding in a single compound. The Baxter detention centre 'riot' in SA involved 25 people out of the hundred there.

We could easily have onshore processing facilities at a fraction of the cost of the current setup, but immigration, refugees, muslims etc are such wonderfully divisive topics that make people look away from a plutocratic government funneling taxpayer wealth into private enterprise.
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Re: Abbott/Liberal Govt Watch

Postby tigerpie » Wed Dec 20, 2017 9:14 pm

Its all a mute point as we have "stopped the boats".

No more illegal immigrants by sea will save bucket loads of cash.
That cash will now be set aside for propping up fraudulent legal immigrants/refugees.
The people smugglers will just forge identity documents, life histories etc and
they'll lob here in a qantas jet instead
of a leaky boat.
No idea what the solution is other than no more refugees and we can't have that now can we.
Don't get me wrong I think we should take some.
Legitimate, highly scrutinized refugees are welcome but the background checks must be absolutely beyond any doubt.
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Re: Abbott/Liberal Govt Watch

Postby Q. » Wed Dec 20, 2017 9:25 pm

tigerpie wrote:Its all a mute point as we have "stopped the boats".


No they didn't. They just moved to intercepting and processing arrivals offshore, therefore never registering as having reached Australia.
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Re: Abbott/Liberal Govt Watch

Postby Q. » Wed Dec 20, 2017 9:29 pm

tigerpie wrote:No more illegal immigrants by sea will save bucket loads of cash.
That cash will now be set aside for propping up fraudulent legal immigrants/refugees.
The people smugglers will just forge identity documents, life histories etc and
they'll lob here in a qantas jet instead
of a leaky boat.
No idea what the solution is other than no more refugees and we can't have that now can we.
Don't get me wrong I think we should take some.
Legitimate, highly scrutinized refugees are welcome but the background checks must be absolutely beyond any doubt.


https://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliament ... sylumFacts

Don't you ever question why we only imprison and demonize maritime arrivals?
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Re: Abbott/Liberal Govt Watch

Postby cracka » Wed Dec 20, 2017 9:44 pm

Q. wrote:
cracka wrote:
Q. wrote:
cracka wrote:Further reading has found some of the atrocities were committed by the asylum seekers themselves then they complain of being mistreated after they've murdered someone.


Outsourcing offshore detention is clearly failing and costing us billions in the process.

What'sthe solution. We've had onshore detention centres where riots have occurred too because the asylum seekers don't get what they want.


A simplistic view.

For instance, the 2009 on Christmas Island were due primarily to overcrowding in a single compound. The Baxter detention centre 'riot' in SA involved 25 people out of the hundred there.

We could easily have onshore processing facilities at a fraction of the cost of the current setup, but immigration, refugees, muslims etc are such wonderfully divisive topics that make people look away from a plutocratic government funneling taxpayer wealth into private enterprise.

I'll have to Google that.
Talk about a simplistic view, if thats what you think the Christmas Island riots were primarily about. What about the Villawood riots.
Anyway I can't be arsed arguing about it anymore as our views on this are so far apart I doubt either of us will budge.
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Re: Abbott/Liberal Govt Watch

Postby Q. » Wed Dec 20, 2017 9:49 pm

cracka wrote:I'll have to Google that.
Talk about a simplistic view, if thats what you think the Christmas Island riots were primarily about. What about the Villawood riots.
Anyway I can't be arsed arguing about it anymore as our views on this are so far apart I doubt either of us will budge.


It's not really my view. It's factually correct to say we could process onshore, at less cost to taxpayer, and less cost to mental health of asylum seekers. We do it for plane arrivals, we can do it for boat arrivals.
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Re: Abbott/Liberal Govt Watch

Postby cracka » Wed Dec 20, 2017 9:49 pm

tigerpie wrote:Its all a mute point as we have "stopped the boats".

No more illegal immigrants by sea will save bucket loads of cash.
That cash will now be set aside for propping up fraudulent legal immigrants/refugees.
The people smugglers will just forge identity documents, life histories etc and
they'll lob here in a qantas jet instead
of a leaky boat.
No idea what the solution is other than no more refugees and we can't have that now can we.
Don't get me wrong I think we should take some.
Legitimate, highly scrutinized refugees are welcome but the background checks must be absolutely beyond any doubt.

Totally agree. Personally I'd prefer to accept more of the refugees who have been in camps (some over 20 years) than the ones who can afford the boat trip.
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Re: Abbott/Liberal Govt Watch

Postby cracka » Wed Dec 20, 2017 9:56 pm

Q. wrote:
cracka wrote:I'll have to Google that.
Talk about a simplistic view, if thats what you think the Christmas Island riots were primarily about. What about the Villawood riots.
Anyway I can't be arsed arguing about it anymore as our views on this are so far apart I doubt either of us will budge.


It's not really my view. It's factually correct to say we could process onshore, at less cost to taxpayer, and less cost to mental health of asylum seekers. We do it for plane arrivals, we can do it for boat arrivals.

It was your view, you wrote it.
Your 2nd sentence above is a totally different point to what I quoted and I dont disagree with that one. As long as they respect our laws & stop destroying the detention centres.
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Re: Abbott/Liberal Govt Watch

Postby Q. » Wed Dec 20, 2017 10:00 pm

cracka wrote:
Q. wrote:
cracka wrote:I'll have to Google that.
Talk about a simplistic view, if thats what you think the Christmas Island riots were primarily about. What about the Villawood riots.
Anyway I can't be arsed arguing about it anymore as our views on this are so far apart I doubt either of us will budge.


It's not really my view. It's factually correct to say we could process onshore, at less cost to taxpayer, and less cost to mental health of asylum seekers. We do it for plane arrivals, we can do it for boat arrivals.

It was your view, you wrote it.
Your 2nd sentence above is a totally different point to what I quoted and I dont disagree with that one. As long as they respect our laws & stop destroying the detention centres.


It's incorrect to infer that all asylum seekers riot and that all riots are because 'they don't get what they want'.

If they were processed like plane arrivals there would never be riots.
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Re: Abbott/Liberal Govt Watch

Postby cracka » Wed Dec 20, 2017 10:02 pm

Q. wrote:
cracka wrote:
Q. wrote:
cracka wrote:I'll have to Google that.
Talk about a simplistic view, if thats what you think the Christmas Island riots were primarily about. What about the Villawood riots.
Anyway I can't be arsed arguing about it anymore as our views on this are so far apart I doubt either of us will budge.


It's not really my view. It's factually correct to say we could process onshore, at less cost to taxpayer, and less cost to mental health of asylum seekers. We do it for plane arrivals, we can do it for boat arrivals.

It was your view, you wrote it.
Your 2nd sentence above is a totally different point to what I quoted and I dont disagree with that one. As long as they respect our laws & stop destroying the detention centres.


It's incorrect to infer that all asylum seekers riot and that all riots are because 'they don't get what they want'.

If they were processed like plane arrivals there would never be riots.

Okay Morell, agree to disagree
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Re: Abbott/Liberal Govt Watch

Postby Q. » Wed Dec 20, 2017 10:06 pm

cracka wrote:Okay Morell, agree to disagree


Or you could just brush up on some reading.

http://www.asyluminsight.com/asylum-exp ... jpLJ9-WZPY
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Re: Abbott/Liberal Govt Watch

Postby cracka » Thu Dec 21, 2017 7:18 am

Q. wrote:
cracka wrote:Okay Morell, agree to disagree


Or you could just brush up on some reading.

http://www.asyluminsight.com/asylum-exp ... jpLJ9-WZPY

Interesting reading. Some of it actually contradicts your points, especially your original one. Thanks for that.
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Re: Abbott/Liberal Govt Watch

Postby Q. » Thu Dec 21, 2017 7:19 am

cracka wrote:
Q. wrote:
cracka wrote:Okay Morell, agree to disagree


Or you could just brush up on some reading.

http://www.asyluminsight.com/asylum-exp ... jpLJ9-WZPY

Interesting reading. Some of it actually contradicts your points, especially your original one. Thanks for that.
Care to point out how?
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Re: Abbott/Liberal Govt Watch

Postby cracka » Thu Dec 21, 2017 7:39 am

Q. wrote:
cracka wrote:
Q. wrote:
cracka wrote:Okay Morell, agree to disagree


Or you could just brush up on some reading.

http://www.asyluminsight.com/asylum-exp ... jpLJ9-WZPY

Interesting reading. Some of it actually contradicts your points, especially your original one. Thanks for that.
Care to point out how?

Some of the policies that have been put in place are actually from the ALP & their upper class voters.
The reason plane arrivals are treated differently is because they arrive with the documents to be processed quicker & easier.
The riots were because the asylum seekers who arrived by boat didn't believe they were being processed quick enough.
You posted the link, have you even read it yourself.
If you think the libs are the only plutotonic party you are in denial.
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Re: Abbott/Liberal Govt Watch

Postby Q. » Thu Dec 21, 2017 7:51 am

cracka wrote:
Q. wrote:
cracka wrote:Interesting reading. Some of it actually contradicts your points, especially your original one. Thanks for that.
Care to point out how?

Some of the policies that have been put in place are actually from the ALP & their upper class voters.
The reason plane arrivals are treated differently is because they arrive with the documents to be processed quicker & easier.
The riots were because the asylum seekers who arrived by boat didn't believe they were being processed quick enough.
You posted the link, have you even read it yourself.
If you think the libs are the only plutotonic party you are in denial.


You obviously are having trouble with comprehension. I haven't denied Labor's involvement.

Plane arrivals are processed onshore, not offshore - despite half not having valid claims. No reason we can't process boat arrivals onshore.

You're just plainly lying about the third sentence - there's plenty of documentation links on the website that outlines that riots aren't just occurring because 'they aren't being processed quick enough' and that it's primarily been due to the mismanagement of contractor services - https://www.homeaffairs.gov.au/Reportsa ... ornall.pdf

Labour have been complicit on policy, but you can't deny that the LNP market themselves as being 'tougher on immigration' and it's a key selling point for their constituents.
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Re: Abbott/Liberal Govt Watch

Postby Jimmy_041 » Thu Dec 21, 2017 8:16 am

I'm lost

I didn't think you could ever get on a plane here without a passport or visa (courtesy of Border Security)
And, if you do, they put you on the next plane home and fine the airline ($20k from memory)

And, Q, how do I rort the super laws? Seriously question considering my age!
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Re: Abbott/Liberal Govt Watch

Postby cracka » Thu Dec 21, 2017 8:20 am

Q. wrote:
cracka wrote:
Q. wrote:
cracka wrote:Interesting reading. Some of it actually contradicts your points, especially your original one. Thanks for that.
Care to point out how?

Some of the policies that have been put in place are actually from the ALP & their upper class voters.
The reason plane arrivals are treated differently is because they arrive with the documents to be processed quicker & easier.
The riots were because the asylum seekers who arrived by boat didn't believe they were being processed quick enough.
You posted the link, have you even read it yourself.
If you think the libs are the only plutotonic party you are in denial.


You obviously are having trouble with comprehension. I haven't denied Labor's involvement.

Plane arrivals are processed onshore, not offshore - despite half not having valid claims. No reason we can't process boat arrivals onshore.

You're just plainly lying about the third sentence - there's plenty of documentation links on the website that outlines that riots aren't just occurring because 'they aren't being processed quick enough' and that it's primarily been due to the mismanagement of contractor services - https://www.homeaffairs.gov.au/Reportsa ... ornall.pdf

Labour have been complicit on policy, but you can't deny that the LNP market themselves as being 'tougher on immigration' and it's a key selling point for their constituents.

No but AGAIN your initial post that I questioned failed to put any blame on them & their upper class elite constituents.
Some plane arrivals do get processed offshore.
No I am not lying, it was in the link you posted. You obviously didn't read it properly.
We can go around in circles for days or years on this & get nowhere, so like I've said before I'll agree to disagree.
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