Port Adelaide 2018

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Re: Port Adelaide 2018

Postby morell » Mon May 07, 2018 12:17 pm

Trader wrote:In 2014 we took the game on and kicked the ball into space, ran onto it and kicked goals.
Teams took a while but learnt if you leave one out the back of the press, that stopped us right then and there.
Ken was forced to move away from the attacking game plan because teams had worked out that's what we were doing.
We don't have the skills to pick our way through a web like the hawks of 2012, so instead we only have one option, negative footy.
Our Disposal Efficiency stats put us middle of the pack, and that's playing a negative game which in reality should move us higher.
As Booney said, over half our side had 3 clangers or more.
We don't have the skills on our list (that stand up under pressure) to play a winning brand of footy.

While it is simple to say we should go back to old footy and plonk a bloke at CHF and another at FF and leave them there, unfortunately we will get eaten alive the other way as sides pick through our web that is missing two blokes.

You are right.

But...

Since then we've replaced

Lobbe with Ryder
Schulz with Dixon
Carlile with Howard
White with Motlop
Cornes with Rockliff
O'Shea with Houston
Monfries with Watts
Broadbent with Bonner

Other than perhaps the last two, which would be breaking even ... That's a demonstrable improvement.

Plus, Jonas, Wines, Hartlett, Westhoff, Polec are better now than then. Gray is still a superstar

Hombsch, Wingard and Boak the only ones that have gone backwards.

Let's try an attacking game plan with this list and see how we go. If it fails, then rebuild. I'd rather that than the monotony of the current status quo.
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Re: Port Adelaide 2018

Postby JK » Mon May 07, 2018 12:25 pm

morell wrote:
Lightning McQueen wrote:
morell wrote:Huzzah!!

Absolutely correct LM.

It's very easy to point at the contested stats and say that's why we lost. But there are plenty of teams that regularly lose the contested ball and win.

But. Those teams have an elite forward structure, so that when the ball is turned over they are efficient, precise and accurate. Mostly through moving the ball through the corridor with urgency and method.

Port have neither. We play the game based on rebound from half back and turning the ball over with pressure. Then locking it in until the football gods smile on us and we fluke a goal. It's overtly negative and cynical. But most annoyingly... doesn't match our players strengths!! Best example is Watts being used as a negating forward on McGovern. What in the actual Ken?! It didn't work last time. Didn't work against Richmond and won't work again with the players you have.

We have a list designed around attacking with flair. Playing on quickly. Bit of dare and aggression. Taking risks. It worked amazingly well in '14. But now we've being instructed to play like a poor man's 05 Sydney Swans by a man protecting his ego and reducing damage, rather than backing in his choc full of talent players.

Yet again, it's a case of driving a Lamborghini with the hand brake on.


It's like watching a train knowing there's an end to the track up ahead.

You see all this hard word done down back to do a switch and move the ball forward and then they all stop as there's no one to deliver it to? Like WTF?

We have Dixon that can just plonk his huge frame in the square, Westhoff who can float about around half forward and take a grab, or others if preferred, then there's Robbie and Chad who can be very dangerous up forward, instead they are all trapped near the wing.

My favourite is when we're streaming forward, we link some handballs together. We have a Dixon pushing up. Gray X2 at his feet...

And we kick to a contest in the ******* pocket. Drives me *insane*! You get see it is clearly an instruction based solely around ensuring repeat entries, locking it in and closing off the other side of the ground to a rebound.

Jesus Christ. It's like Ken's playing a video game and he has some imaginary goal in mind... Other than you know... the actual goals.


Sounds like Norwood under Bassett a few years back
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Port Adelaide 2018

Postby Jim05 » Mon May 07, 2018 12:37 pm

The Bedge wrote:Could Port play Barry as the pressure forward role instead of Neade?

Pittard was very average on the weekend as well I thought along with those named.

Showdown's are generally a physical, hard fought, contested game, i'd be bringing both SPP and Rockliff back in and back the side in to win the contested stuff, and as morell mentioned back the sides attacking flair and talent to hit the scoreboard.

Anyone calling for Rockcliff to return didn’t watch the SANFL Friday night. The Norwood mids ran rings around him and I thought he must have been injured the amount of time he spent jogging along watching the Norwood mids run off him. He looked totally disinterested. Ended up with a heap of cheap possies but was pretty poor IMO. SPP on the other hand started poor but atleast cracked in and got better as the game went on
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Re: Port Adelaide 2018

Postby Lightning McQueen » Mon May 07, 2018 12:38 pm

Jim05 wrote:
The Bedge wrote:Could Port play Barry as the pressure forward role instead of Neade?

Pittard was very average on the weekend as well I thought along with those named.

Showdown's are generally a physical, hard fought, contested game, i'd be bringing both SPP and Rockliff back in and back the side in to win the contested stuff, and as morell mentioned back the sides attacking flair and talent to hit the scoreboard.

Anyone calling for Rockcliff to return didn’t watch the SANFL Friday night. The Norwood mids ran rings around him and I thought he must have been injured the amount of time he spent jogging along watching the Norwood mids run off him. He looked totally disinterested

He probably was.
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Re: Port Adelaide 2018

Postby Jim05 » Mon May 07, 2018 12:39 pm

Lightning McQueen wrote:
Jim05 wrote:
The Bedge wrote:Could Port play Barry as the pressure forward role instead of Neade?

Pittard was very average on the weekend as well I thought along with those named.

Showdown's are generally a physical, hard fought, contested game, i'd be bringing both SPP and Rockliff back in and back the side in to win the contested stuff, and as morell mentioned back the sides attacking flair and talent to hit the scoreboard.

Anyone calling for Rockcliff to return didn’t watch the SANFL Friday night. The Norwood mids ran rings around him and I thought he must have been injured the amount of time he spent jogging along watching the Norwood mids run off him. He looked totally disinterested

He probably was.

Contrast that to SPP that had a crack all night even when things weren’t going his way early he was still doing the little things and trying to involve himself in the game
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Re: Port Adelaide 2018

Postby morell » Mon May 07, 2018 12:45 pm

To be fair Rockliff was never and will never be your spread from the contest type of campaigner. He's an accumulator and first posession inside mid.
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Re: Port Adelaide 2018

Postby Trader » Mon May 07, 2018 12:48 pm

morell wrote:
Trader wrote:In 2014 we took the game on and kicked the ball into space, ran onto it and kicked goals.
Teams took a while but learnt if you leave one out the back of the press, that stopped us right then and there.
Ken was forced to move away from the attacking game plan because teams had worked out that's what we were doing.
We don't have the skills to pick our way through a web like the hawks of 2012, so instead we only have one option, negative footy.
Our Disposal Efficiency stats put us middle of the pack, and that's playing a negative game which in reality should move us higher.
As Booney said, over half our side had 3 clangers or more.
We don't have the skills on our list (that stand up under pressure) to play a winning brand of footy.

While it is simple to say we should go back to old footy and plonk a bloke at CHF and another at FF and leave them there, unfortunately we will get eaten alive the other way as sides pick through our web that is missing two blokes.

You are right.

But...

Since then we've replaced

Lobbe with Ryder
Schulz with Dixon
Carlile with Howard
White with Motlop
Cornes with Rockliff
O'Shea with Houston
Monfries with Watts
Broadbent with Bonner

Other than perhaps the last two, which would be breaking even ... That's a demonstrable improvement.

Plus, Jonas, Wines, Hartlett, Westhoff, Polec are better now than then. Gray is still a superstar

Hombsch, Wingard and Boak the only ones that have gone backwards.

Let's try an attacking game plan with this list and see how we go. If it fails, then rebuild. I'd rather that than the monotony of the current status quo.


While it sounds impressive with 8 good "ins", they aren't the guys moving the pill.
Of our top 9 disposal getters this year, Bonner is the only "in" you mentioned.

We have the same group kicking the ball and for mine, they struggle.
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Re: Port Adelaide 2018

Postby Jim05 » Mon May 07, 2018 1:07 pm

morell wrote:To be fair Rockliff was never and will never be your spread from the contest type of campaigner. He's an accumulator and first posession inside mid.

Was given a bath in that department Friday night in the first half. I thought Atley was miles better and looks a decent player. He more than held his own at stoppages
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Re: Port Adelaide 2018

Postby morell » Mon May 07, 2018 1:13 pm

Trader wrote:
morell wrote:
Trader wrote:In 2014 we took the game on and kicked the ball into space, ran onto it and kicked goals.
Teams took a while but learnt if you leave one out the back of the press, that stopped us right then and there.
Ken was forced to move away from the attacking game plan because teams had worked out that's what we were doing.
We don't have the skills to pick our way through a web like the hawks of 2012, so instead we only have one option, negative footy.
Our Disposal Efficiency stats put us middle of the pack, and that's playing a negative game which in reality should move us higher.
As Booney said, over half our side had 3 clangers or more.
We don't have the skills on our list (that stand up under pressure) to play a winning brand of footy.

While it is simple to say we should go back to old footy and plonk a bloke at CHF and another at FF and leave them there, unfortunately we will get eaten alive the other way as sides pick through our web that is missing two blokes.

You are right.

But...

Since then we've replaced

Lobbe with Ryder
Schulz with Dixon
Carlile with Howard
White with Motlop
Cornes with Rockliff
O'Shea with Houston
Monfries with Watts
Broadbent with Bonner

Other than perhaps the last two, which would be breaking even ... That's a demonstrable improvement.

Plus, Jonas, Wines, Hartlett, Westhoff, Polec are better now than then. Gray is still a superstar

Hombsch, Wingard and Boak the only ones that have gone backwards.

Let's try an attacking game plan with this list and see how we go. If it fails, then rebuild. I'd rather that than the monotony of the current status quo.


While it sounds impressive with 8 good "ins", they aren't the guys moving the pill.
Of our top 9 disposal getters this year, Bonner is the only "in" you mentioned.

We have the same group kicking the ball and for mine, they struggle.
There is some truth to what you're saying, I don't completely disagree.

Out of that list Watts was brought in very specifically to push up the ground and provide a link to the forward line with his "elite" foot skills. Houston is an elite kick of the ball too.

It's a chicken and egg argument. Do our poor foot skills cause us to play a negative game plan, or does our negative game plan exacerbate skill errors.

Little from column A and B I suspect.

Foot skills are hugely reliant on confidence and instinct. Every footballer knows that it's easier to hit a target on the run I field play that execute the same skill under pressure in front of goal.

If we played with instinct, quickly and with method based on solid repetition and game plan knowledge. The confidence would increase... as would the "skills".

We do have quite a few mids that are not elite legs I do agree.. Wines, Ebert, Boak, SPP..
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Re: Port Adelaide 2018

Postby Dutchy » Mon May 07, 2018 1:17 pm

morell wrote:To be fair Rockliff was never and will never be your spread from the contest type of campaigner. He's an accumulator and first posession inside mid.


to be fair on $800k pa he should be able to work a bit harder at SANFL level.
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Re: Port Adelaide 2018

Postby morell » Mon May 07, 2018 1:31 pm

Dutchy wrote:
morell wrote:To be fair Rockliff was never and will never be your spread from the contest type of campaigner. He's an accumulator and first posession inside mid.


to be fair on $800k pa he should be able to work a bit harder at SANFL level.
1. He's on slightly less than $700

2. No one cares about the SANFL, including Tom Rockliff. As long as he got some match fitness and a bit of touch.
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Re: Port Adelaide 2018

Postby valleys07 » Mon May 07, 2018 1:53 pm

JK wrote:Sounds like Norwood under Bassett a few years back


I have more queries over he and Lade, than Ken.
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Re: Port Adelaide 2018

Postby valleys07 » Mon May 07, 2018 1:55 pm

Jim05 wrote:
morell wrote:To be fair Rockliff was never and will never be your spread from the contest type of campaigner. He's an accumulator and first posession inside mid.

Was given a bath in that department Friday night in the first half. I thought Atley was miles better and looks a decent player. He more than held his own at stoppages


Atley needs to be in the side ASAP. Should have been in since the Essendon match.
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Re: Port Adelaide 2018

Postby Dutchy » Mon May 07, 2018 2:20 pm

valleys07 wrote:
JK wrote:Sounds like Norwood under Bassett a few years back


I have more queries over he and Lade, than Ken.


Why does Voss get away with little blame?

Took Brisbane backwards and hasn't done anything of note at Port, even The Recruit improved when he left as they produced an AFL player!
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Re: Port Adelaide 2018

Postby Booney » Mon May 07, 2018 2:55 pm

Dutchy wrote:
valleys07 wrote:
JK wrote:Sounds like Norwood under Bassett a few years back


I have more queries over he and Lade, than Ken.


Why does Voss get away with little blame?

Took Brisbane backwards and hasn't done anything of note at Port, even The Recruit improved when he left as they produced an AFL player!


Because we've consistently been sound at clearances. 6th for clearances in 2017, 6th for contested possessions in 2017, 3rd for I50's in 2017.

You keep attacking Voss without looking at the detail. Our midfield wins enough ball, it's the system the ball goes I50 with that hurts. So it that the mids, the forwards or the total package? A bit of all 3.

If you want to get into the nitty gritty the skills of the mids could improve but the system they work to does it's job. That part of our game has, in the main, been sound.

It also important to note how we kept the ball I50 more than anyone in 2017, the midfield set up behind the ball worked, too.
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Re: Port Adelaide 2018

Postby morell » Mon May 07, 2018 7:08 pm

Yeah but what are we sacrificing to win those clearances? We only get huge numbers of I50s because we suck at forward line conversion.

I'd rather have a lower inside 50 count and fewer repeat entries. That would hopefully mean we're kicking goals and it's going back to the middle!!
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Re: Port Adelaide 2018

Postby DOC » Mon May 07, 2018 7:12 pm

morell wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
morell wrote:To be fair Rockliff was never and will never be your spread from the contest type of campaigner. He's an accumulator and first posession inside mid.


to be fair on $800k pa he should be able to work a bit harder at SANFL level.
1. He's on slightly less than $700

2. No one cares about the SANFL, including Tom Rockliff. As long as he got some match fitness and a bit of touch.


Given your assertions that you base your opinions on facts, and you normally do, point 2 is clearly wrong.
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Re: Port Adelaide 2018

Postby morell » Mon May 07, 2018 7:53 pm

DOC wrote:
morell wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
morell wrote:To be fair Rockliff was never and will never be your spread from the contest type of campaigner. He's an accumulator and first posession inside mid.


to be fair on $800k pa he should be able to work a bit harder at SANFL level.
1. He's on slightly less than $700

2. No one cares about the SANFL, including Tom Rockliff. As long as he got some match fitness and a bit of touch.


Given your assertions that you base your opinions on facts, and you normally do, point 2 is clearly wrong.

Agreed but surely there's still some time and space afforded for satire?

The point was, busting his ass and smashing in would do Rocky no favours. His priority is getting himself right for AFL. As it should be.
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Re: Port Adelaide 2018

Postby whufc » Mon May 07, 2018 8:07 pm

morell wrote:Yeah but what are we sacrificing to win those clearances? We only get huge numbers of I50s because we suck at forward line conversion.

I'd rather have a lower inside 50 count and fewer repeat entries. That would hopefully mean we're kicking goals and it's going back to the middle!!


While I think we can all agree that efficiency is very crucial and what all teams aim for when entering the forward 50, the last 5 rounds (because I'm too lazy to check the entire history of football) has indicated volume of inside 50's is a still a decent guide to the outcome of the game.

The last 5 rounds the team that had more inside 50's won 31 of the 40 games. Also 2 of the games where the team had more inside 50's and loss suffered defeats that were by less than 2 goals. While there was also a draw for a team with more inside 50's.

That's stats (admittedly only over the last 5 rounds) would suggest if you have the volume of inside 50's you are very well and truly in the game.
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Re: Port Adelaide 2018

Postby DOC » Mon May 07, 2018 10:08 pm

[/quote]
Agreed but surely there's still some time and space afforded for satire?

The point was, busting his ass and smashing in would do Rocky no favours. His priority is getting himself right for AFL. As it should be.[/quote]

That would be on Satireday then
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