by jo172 » Fri May 18, 2018 10:52 am
by Psyber » Fri May 18, 2018 11:20 am
by DOC » Fri May 18, 2018 11:22 am
by Jimmy_041 » Fri May 18, 2018 12:49 pm
DOC wrote:Its only for show,
The big issue is not being discussed on here due to all the side issues.
Should MP's of any persuasion be allowed to give fireman a tray of doughnuts without ministerial approval?
by morell » Fri May 18, 2018 2:07 pm
Again, the lowest category is maladministration. Which is the equivalent of "you're not very good at your job"jo172 wrote:Re the discussion about applying the duties of the Corporations Act more generally it's a very good point (and should certainly be applied to leaders of Trade Unions while we're at it).
One of the unforseen problems with the introduction of ICAC has been that government and local government now sees anything that doesn't rise to the level of maladministration to be appropriate levels of governance and accountability.
It's shit. Instead of raising the bar they now have it just low enough they can barely clear it.
by Trader » Fri May 18, 2018 3:00 pm
morell wrote:Again, the lowest category is maladministration. Which is the equivalent of "you're not very good at your job"jo172 wrote:Re the discussion about applying the duties of the Corporations Act more generally it's a very good point (and should certainly be applied to leaders of Trade Unions while we're at it).
One of the unforseen problems with the introduction of ICAC has been that government and local government now sees anything that doesn't rise to the level of maladministration to be appropriate levels of governance and accountability.
It's shit. Instead of raising the bar they now have it just low enough they can barely clear it.
If the decree is that you're not not very good at your job, then .... by a leap of logic one would assume that you're ok at your job.
Do we want to be putting people in jail for only being ok at their job now?
by morell » Fri May 18, 2018 3:16 pm
by Trader » Fri May 18, 2018 3:20 pm
by DOC » Fri May 18, 2018 3:48 pm
by jo172 » Fri May 18, 2018 3:50 pm
morell wrote:That's true of every organisation. And of course we should be striving to be not shit. But I reject the notion that if ICAC find you to be innocent than there is automatically this next tier of cynicism to be directed at the public sector.
And sure, there is some dead wood. I know of daft buggers in the "big 4". One of whom we both know
The thing with all this is were holding the private sector up to be some sort of bastion of good governance, high morality and efficient operations. What a load of gunk.
One need only pick up the paper and read a little bit about the financal advice industry. Previously the banking industry.
LG is held to a much higher standard because we spend public money. I get that. But let's keep it in perspective.
by jo172 » Fri May 18, 2018 3:52 pm
Trader wrote:morell wrote:Again, the lowest category is maladministration. Which is the equivalent of "you're not very good at your job"jo172 wrote:Re the discussion about applying the duties of the Corporations Act more generally it's a very good point (and should certainly be applied to leaders of Trade Unions while we're at it).
One of the unforseen problems with the introduction of ICAC has been that government and local government now sees anything that doesn't rise to the level of maladministration to be appropriate levels of governance and accountability.
It's shit. Instead of raising the bar they now have it just low enough they can barely clear it.
If the decree is that you're not not very good at your job, then .... by a leap of logic one would assume that you're ok at your job.
Do we want to be putting people in jail for only being ok at their job now?
No they should not be going to jail for being ok.
But they should be striving to be better than "not shit".
I'm with Jo here, so much dead wood in Local Government that gets away with being "not shit".
by jo172 » Fri May 18, 2018 3:53 pm
morell wrote:That's true of every organisation. And of course we should be striving to be not shit. But I reject the notion that if ICAC find you to be innocent than there is automatically this next tier of cynicism to be directed at the public sector.
And sure, there is some dead wood. I know of daft buggers in the "big 4". One of whom we both know
The thing with all this is were holding the private sector up to be some sort of bastion of good governance, high morality and efficient operations. What a load of gunk.
One need only pick up the paper and read a little bit about the financal advice industry. Previously the banking industry.
LG is held to a much higher standard because we spend public money. I get that. But let's keep it in perspective.
by morell » Fri May 18, 2018 4:01 pm
Rubbish.Trader wrote:The private sector is so much more efficient than the public.
There are examples you can point to in both of poor efficiency but as a whole, private outstrips the public by the length of the straight.
by morell » Fri May 18, 2018 4:06 pm
I defended the Government at the time for not sacking Vlahos on the spot because of the findings. Big difference.jo172 wrote:morell wrote:That's true of every organisation. And of course we should be striving to be not shit. But I reject the notion that if ICAC find you to be innocent than there is automatically this next tier of cynicism to be directed at the public sector.
And sure, there is some dead wood. I know of daft buggers in the "big 4". One of whom we both know
The thing with all this is were holding the private sector up to be some sort of bastion of good governance, high morality and efficient operations. What a load of gunk.
One need only pick up the paper and read a little bit about the financal advice industry. Previously the banking industry.
LG is held to a much higher standard because we spend public money. I get that. But let's keep it in perspective.
In this thread you defended Vlahos re Oakden on the basis the Commissioner did not make a finding of maladministration.
Not maladministration is not what public officials should be shooting for.
Many I act for and against now see that as their starting point.
by morell » Fri May 18, 2018 4:21 pm
DOC wrote:How does the private sector stack up against the police, army, navy, airforce, firebrigade, foreign affairs, customs, immigration, foreign affairs and the work they do?
You need to be able compare like for like, then we get into the argument of what is a government service and who should provide it.
Comparing say housing trust building employees to private sector builders may be fair (I don't know) but the actual provision of Public Services as described above do not always have a private equivalent. .
by Trader » Fri May 18, 2018 4:33 pm
morell wrote:Rubbish.Trader wrote:The private sector is so much more efficient than the public.
There are examples you can point to in both of poor efficiency but as a whole, private outstrips the public by the length of the straight.
Call Telstra
Call your energy supplier
Call your bank
Call your internet provider
Call your Council
Time them all. Then come back in here and tell me the private sector is efficient.
The might be efficient at making money, but that's it.
by Trader » Fri May 18, 2018 4:35 pm
morell wrote:DOC wrote:How does the private sector stack up against the police, army, navy, airforce, firebrigade, foreign affairs, customs, immigration, foreign affairs and the work they do?
You need to be able compare like for like, then we get into the argument of what is a government service and who should provide it.
Comparing say housing trust building employees to private sector builders may be fair (I don't know) but the actual provision of Public Services as described above do not always have a private equivalent. .
And more to the point..
What are we actually measuring?
Sure. A private firm might be making money in a more efficient way, but LG isn't structured to be making money, were not there for that.
How do you put a monetary value on some of the services LG provide? What is a youth development program "worth"? Not much unless you consider it might save a kid from suicide. Is it then priceless?
It's actually an asinine argument when you think about it.
by morell » Fri May 18, 2018 4:42 pm
Trader wrote:morell wrote:DOC wrote:How does the private sector stack up against the police, army, navy, airforce, firebrigade, foreign affairs, customs, immigration, foreign affairs and the work they do?
You need to be able compare like for like, then we get into the argument of what is a government service and who should provide it.
Comparing say housing trust building employees to private sector builders may be fair (I don't know) but the actual provision of Public Services as described above do not always have a private equivalent. .
And more to the point..
What are we actually measuring?
Sure. A private firm might be making money in a more efficient way, but LG isn't structured to be making money, were not there for that.
How do you put a monetary value on some of the services LG provide? What is a youth development program "worth"? Not much unless you consider it might save a kid from suicide. Is it then priceless?
It's actually an asinine argument when you think about it.
They are not there to make money, correct.
But the lack of efficiency (over resourced, dead wood, whatever you want to call it) is causing them to waste money. That's the gripe the general public has, and rightly so.
by morell » Fri May 18, 2018 4:54 pm
Trader wrote:morell wrote:Rubbish.Trader wrote:The private sector is so much more efficient than the public.
There are examples you can point to in both of poor efficiency but as a whole, private outstrips the public by the length of the straight.
Call Telstra
Call your energy supplier
Call your bank
Call your internet provider
Call your Council
Time them all. Then come back in here and tell me the private sector is efficient.
The might be efficient at making money, but that's it.
Quick timelines does not necessarily mean you're efficient.
Lets say the private sector produces 1 widget every day using 1 man.
If Local Government can produce that same widget by lunchtime, are they more efficient even though they employ 7 staff to do it?
There is absolutely no doubt in my mind local government is over resourced for the output they produce.
by morell » Fri May 18, 2018 5:10 pm
Competitions SANFL Official Site | Country Footy SA | Southern Football League | VFL Footy
Club Forums Snouts Louts | The Roost | Redlegs Forum |