Adelaide Footy League Division 7 - 2018

Adelaide Footy League Talk

Who will win the D7 Grand Final?

Central United
12
16%
Flinders Uni
1
1%
Golden Grove
2
3%
Houghton
8
10%
Marion
13
17%
Mawson Lakes
5
6%
Mitchell Park
0
No votes
OSB Lonsdale
31
40%
St Pauls OS
3
4%
Tea Tree Gully
2
3%
 
Total votes : 77

Re: Adelaide Footy League Division 7 - 2018

Postby Courtney Fish » Wed May 30, 2018 1:05 pm

morell wrote:To me there are two arguments going on.

One is the broader macro level discussion about money in semi-professional football and what that means for our sport. That’s a complicated, nuanced argument that requires a depth of knowledge that isn’t common in the depths of the safooty servers.

The second is micro in nature and whether or not this year for this division it’s appropriate to be spending any money paying players for what is in essence, social football.

I do think Marion in particular have perhaps slightly misjudged the cultural norms for these divisions. In D7 and perhaps even D6, it is my opinion that they’re not meant to be money driven competitions. That’s not to say nothing ought to be spent trying to recruit or it should be outright banned, but to my eyes there has always sort of been an unwritten rule to somewhat minimise spending on players to maintain that social connection we enjoy down here. That could just be me though.

It will come out in the wash and we’ll all adapt. To me it comes back to having a broken promotion/relegation system for grading teams. There must be more autonomy afforded to the executive of the AdFL to accurately place teams in the right division. Wining or placing in last years GF ought to be one criteria of a multivariate analysis .. other variables might include:

Average spend on players
Preference of club
Quality of recruits
Quality or losses
Divisional gap
Club structures (juniors, OS etc)

I would also go as far as saying… and Ill get hounded for this one. Have a pre-season grading comp for the lower divisions.


Maybe some clubs don't want to settle in the Social Div 7. Shouldn't clubs aim to play in the highest grade possible? If Marion choose to pay for a quick gateway to higher Divs you will only see them for a season or 2 in this Div. There's a lot of talk of Culture of late on here. We're just here in div 7 to have a kick on Saturday and enjoy a few beers after will only attract a certain level of player. A chance to build towards success will attract others.
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Re: Adelaide Footy League Division 7 - 2018

Postby Lightning McQueen » Wed May 30, 2018 1:12 pm

The Bedge wrote:Lets be serious, every year we know clubs that are incorrectly graded, if the league had the power to intervene, adjustments could be made to make it a more competitive/even comp. Generally speaking it's the lower half divisions that have the most inconsistency.

Example - Greenaces was obvious to everyone pre-season they'd struggle, and OSB appeared to be a side that would go well after some strong recruiting.. wouldn't have hurt to swap the two.

Egos/pride of clubs get in the way though and affect decision making in the best interests of their club IMO.

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Re: Adelaide Footy League Division 7 - 2018

Postby Look Good In Leather » Wed May 30, 2018 1:52 pm

Footy Chick wrote:
the smokey wrote:
The fact there is so much floating around in div 7 is a joke and will discourage successful higher grade clubs to play in this division!!


because Goodwood and ROCS secretly want to play in D7 but the money being thrown around is ridiculous :lol:

I assume you actually mean the C and D grade teams of higher successful clubs. Clubs like SMOSH and Henley have been very successful in this grade over the years.


This is the part I don't understand - why would you want C & D Grade teams in the division? As an A-Grade team how demeaning is that, a club saying you are only worthy of competing against their third team.
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Re: Adelaide Footy League Division 7 - 2018

Postby Look Good In Leather » Wed May 30, 2018 1:54 pm

morell wrote:I do think Marion in particular have perhaps slightly misjudged the cultural norms for these divisions. In D7 and perhaps even D6, it is my opinion that they’re not meant to be money driven competitions. That’s not to say nothing ought to be spent trying to recruit or it should be outright banned, but to my eyes there has always sort of been an unwritten rule to somewhat minimise spending on players to maintain that social connection we enjoy down here. That could just be me though.


I am not sure Marion have misjudged the culture of the division, they were quite open about not wanting to be placed in Division 7. They have no intention of staying at this level and will spend to make sure they progress up as quickly as possible.
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Re: Adelaide Footy League Division 7 - 2018

Postby Lightning McQueen » Wed May 30, 2018 2:00 pm

Look Good In Leather wrote:
morell wrote:I do think Marion in particular have perhaps slightly misjudged the cultural norms for these divisions. In D7 and perhaps even D6, it is my opinion that they’re not meant to be money driven competitions. That’s not to say nothing ought to be spent trying to recruit or it should be outright banned, but to my eyes there has always sort of been an unwritten rule to somewhat minimise spending on players to maintain that social connection we enjoy down here. That could just be me though.


I am not sure Marion have misjudged the culture of the division, they were quite open about not wanting to be placed in Division 7. They have no intention of staying at this level and will spend to make sure they progress up as quickly as possible.

Not much they could do if the AdFL Made Marion.
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Re: Adelaide Footy League Division 7 - 2018

Postby morell » Wed May 30, 2018 2:19 pm

The Bedge wrote:Lets be serious, every year we know clubs that are incorrectly graded, if the league had the power to intervene, adjustments could be made to make it a more competitive/even comp. Generally speaking it's the lower half divisions that have the most inconsistency.

Example - Greenaces was obvious to everyone pre-season they'd struggle, and OSB appeared to be a side that would go well after some strong recruiting.. wouldn't have hurt to swap the two.

Egos/pride of clubs get in the way though and affect decision making in the best interests of their club IMO.

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Re: Adelaide Footy League Division 7 - 2018

Postby Q. » Wed May 30, 2018 2:40 pm

Look Good In Leather wrote:
Footy Chick wrote:
the smokey wrote:
The fact there is so much floating around in div 7 is a joke and will discourage successful higher grade clubs to play in this division!!


because Goodwood and ROCS secretly want to play in D7 but the money being thrown around is ridiculous [emoji38]

I assume you actually mean the C and D grade teams of higher successful clubs. Clubs like SMOSH and Henley have been very successful in this grade over the years.


This is the part I don't understand - why would you want C & D Grade teams in the division? As an A-Grade team how demeaning is that, a club saying you are only worthy of competing against their third team.
That would suggest it's demeaning to play C/D grade
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Re: Adelaide Footy League Division 7 - 2018

Postby Down the Hill » Wed May 30, 2018 4:04 pm

No less demeaning than playing in a 6 or 7 team comp of the leftover clubs not in D1 - D6. At least D7 clubs are playing in a competition that mirrors the structure of the higher divisions and retains the integrity of the promotion concept by having every team play each other twice to fairly determine the 5 best teams to contest the finals.

This practice has gone on for years. In 1987 I played against Adelaide Uni in A3 when they were also in A1. Their A3 team was actually their 2nd 18 (with A1R and A3R their 3rds and 4ths). Back in the 80's and 90's there were many clubs including Brighton that had their C & D grade playing in A5 to A7 alongside a combination of A grade and C grade teams.
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Re: Adelaide Footy League Division 7 - 2018

Postby Courtney Fish » Wed May 30, 2018 4:37 pm

Down the Hill wrote:No less demeaning than playing in a 6 or 7 team comp of the leftover clubs not in D1 - D6. At least D7 clubs are playing in a competition that mirrors the structure of the higher divisions and retains the integrity of the promotion concept by having every team play each other twice to fairly determine the 5 best teams to contest the finals.

This practice has gone on for years. In 1987 I played against Adelaide Uni in A3 when they were also in A1. Their A3 team was actually their 2nd 18 (with A1R and A3R their 3rds and 4ths). Back in the 80's and 90's there were many clubs including Brighton that had their C & D grade playing in A5 to A7 alongside a combination of A grade and C grade teams.


We used to play against your C's and D's in SFL div 2. I think the C's were ander 21 team from memory.
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Re: Adelaide Footy League Division 7 - 2018

Postby Down the Hill » Wed May 30, 2018 5:26 pm

Correct, our first year in SFL in 1997. We couldn't match the stronger Div 2 teams but several of those lads played in our 2002 A grade flag so it definitely had it's benefits in exposing those younger lads to a better level than Div 1 B grade. The next 2 years of being in Div 2 and Div 2R with genuine C & D grade teams was pretty disastrous and both years ended with struggling to get a 4th team on the park and blokes like me being forced to double up. I played 8 qtrs one day at Lonsdale on a dry day and never realised how hard the surface was under that nice grass cover until that day. I could still barely walk come the next Saturday.
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Re: Adelaide Footy League Division 7 - 2018

Postby Dutchy » Wed May 30, 2018 11:57 pm

The Bedge wrote:Lets be serious, every year we know clubs that are incorrectly graded, if the league had the power to intervene, adjustments could be made to make it a more competitive/even comp. Generally speaking it's the lower half divisions that have the most inconsistency.

Example - Greenaces was obvious to everyone pre-season they'd struggle, and OSB appeared to be a side that would go well after some strong recruiting.. wouldn't have hurt to swap the two.

Egos/pride of clubs get in the way though and affect decision making in the best interests of their club IMO.


Are you suggesting the AdFL executive should be making calls and grading clubs on clubs pre-season's and recruiting success? That would open a massive can of worms.
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Re: Adelaide Footy League Division 7 - 2018

Postby The Bedge » Thu May 31, 2018 9:11 am

Yes, that’s exactly what I’m suggesting.
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Re: Adelaide Footy League Division 7 - 2018

Postby Dutchy » Thu May 31, 2018 10:25 am

The Bedge wrote:Yes, that’s exactly what I’m suggesting.


Extremely subjective making a call on teams on how one person "thinks" they are going to perform. I would imagine this would piss of more clubs than it would make happy.
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Re: Adelaide Footy League Division 7 - 2018

Postby morell » Thu May 31, 2018 10:30 am

Dutchy wrote:
The Bedge wrote:Yes, that’s exactly what I’m suggesting.


Extremely subjective making a call on teams on how one person "thinks" they are going to perform. I would imagine this would piss of more clubs than it would make happy.

Rubbish.

It's really not that hard.

If we all know it each year, I betcha the team at the AdFL would have an even better idea.

Even if they get it close, it would be an improvement to the dogs breakfast we currently have.

And consultation and engagement would need to be a critical component.
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Re: Adelaide Footy League Division 7 - 2018

Postby Footy Chick » Thu May 31, 2018 10:34 am

You two are kidding yourselves.
Don't play games with a girl who can play 'em better...

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Re: Adelaide Footy League Division 7 - 2018

Postby Dutchy » Thu May 31, 2018 10:40 am

Footy Chick wrote:You two are kidding yourselves.


Huh?
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Re: Adelaide Footy League Division 7 - 2018

Postby Dutchy » Thu May 31, 2018 10:41 am

morell wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
The Bedge wrote:Yes, that’s exactly what I’m suggesting.


Extremely subjective making a call on teams on how one person "thinks" they are going to perform. I would imagine this would piss of more clubs than it would make happy.

Rubbish.

It's really not that hard.

If we all know it each year, I betcha the team at the AdFL would have an even better idea.

Even if they get it close, it would be an improvement to the dogs breakfast we currently have.

And consultation and engagement would need to be a critical component.


Isn't this why you have promotion/relegation, all this stuff sorts itself out over 12 months anyway?
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Re: Adelaide Footy League Division 7 - 2018

Postby The Bedge » Thu May 31, 2018 10:46 am

Dutchy wrote:Isn't this why you have promotion/relegation, all this stuff sorts itself out over 12 months anyway?

To a degree, yes, but promotion/relegation system doesn't allow for new clubs coming in, or clubs who spend up big win a flag/promotion and then drop multiple grades the following year or so.

Promotion/relegation doesn't account for OSB coming into the comp, it doesn't account for Para Hills returning 12 months after it was supposed to by in D4 following a D5 premiership and playing D7, it doesn't account for Salisbury West dropping after losing a D4 GF to D7.
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Re: Adelaide Footy League Division 7 - 2018

Postby morell » Thu May 31, 2018 10:49 am

Dutchy wrote:
morell wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
The Bedge wrote:Yes, that’s exactly what I’m suggesting.


Extremely subjective making a call on teams on how one person "thinks" they are going to perform. I would imagine this would piss of more clubs than it would make happy.

Rubbish.

It's really not that hard.

If we all know it each year, I betcha the team at the AdFL would have an even better idea.

Even if they get it close, it would be an improvement to the dogs breakfast we currently have.

And consultation and engagement would need to be a critical component.


Isn't this why you have promotion/relegation, all this stuff sorts itself out over 12 months anyway?
and hows that working at the moment? That system is fine when you have maybe two or three divisions and it's 1999 and players play for their local club for years on end.

The modern AdFL doesn't look anything like that anymore. It's much more dynamic. The structures and decision making ought to reflect that.

For what it's worth, I'm not saying promotion and relegation should necessarily be scrapped all together, just that it should be *one* criteria in a multivariate analysis. That analysis should be undertaken by the executive of the AdFL who ought to have *executive* decision making capabilities.

At the moment we have D1 clubs making decisions through their delegates which affect D7 clubs and vice versa. It's absurd. It would be like running a corporation based solely on the whims of shareholders.
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Re: Adelaide Footy League Division 7 - 2018

Postby Dutchy » Thu May 31, 2018 10:58 am

The Bedge wrote:
Dutchy wrote:Isn't this why you have promotion/relegation, all this stuff sorts itself out over 12 months anyway?

To a degree, yes, but promotion/relegation system doesn't allow for new clubs coming in, or clubs who spend up big win a flag/promotion and then drop multiple grades the following year or so.

Promotion/relegation doesn't account for OSB coming into the comp, it doesn't account for Para Hills returning 12 months after it was supposed to by in D4 following a D5 premiership and playing D7, it doesn't account for Salisbury West dropping after losing a D4 GF to D7.


To be fair I think the AdFL have got it pretty right with Brighton, Morphie Park's, OSBL, Edwardstown and Marion's entry, could argue they maybe came in one div to low but again they find their way to the right Div in 12 months anyway.

So you want all clubs to show their annual player spend budgets in Jan each year and make decisions based on player spend?
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