Grade Cricket

Local cricket is the go here. Any talk about local comps, grade cricket, etc.

Re: Grade Cricket

Postby Tony Clifton » Tue Jul 17, 2018 12:29 pm

billy wrote:Oh come on .. so a few people having a hit before the season starts .. none of whom play first class cricket justifies having this funding used and weakening first grade cricket in this state which flies directly in the face of strengthening grade cricket in Australia. I see nothing happening in the last 12 months to be pleased about .. the performance of our batsman in Shield cricket has not been good enough. You keep telling people everything is fine .. finishing on the bottom of the shield ladder and continually having the Redbacks league funded in this way is ridiculous .. put the money into grade cricket .. improve the funding for all grade clubs and improve the standard. There should be improved funding to grade cricket .. the increased funding of first grade coaches and coaching standards should be a major priority .. the development officer jobs need to become part of each clubs funding and then they can work across the state to improve coaching for young cricketers in SA .. there is no reason why a grade club could not include them as part of a full time coaching role directly connected to the role as a first grade coach. Why does SA have to continue to paddle along with indecisive decision-making with little attention to detail .. 2 shield wins in 36 years and no shield in the last 22 years is not good enough and this sort of apathy about grade cricket development being perpetuated by the high performance department in this state is not good enough!! We have just lost a 17 year old to Victoria straight out of our high performance unit .. where is the work being done to build relationships that stop this sort of thing happening .. there is a reason why the Victorians had no interest in Pope or Zampa .. !!

You're using the fact that Victoria are poaching young players from our state as a criticism of the system?

It's the opposite.

Grade cricket is a money pit. There are too many clubs and most sit there with their hands out. If they had more money most would just spend it on players from other clubs, not making one iota of difference to the standard of grade cricket overall.

It's a shame but grade cricket has been replaced to a degree. The players on the edges of the first class system and the talented players coming through are catered for elsewhere; they spend winters at the centre of excellence, are in the emerging Redbacks squad, play Future's League.

Grade cricket is no longer a direct breeding ground for first class cricketers. Some yearn for the good ol' days when grade cricket was king and was highly relevant but you can never go back. Did grade cricket get more funding back then? Is that why it was better? No.
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Re: Grade Cricket

Postby the star » Tue Jul 17, 2018 4:52 pm

Speaking of poaching have heard the HP position has been filled by an interstate applicant with previous connections to SA
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Re: Grade Cricket

Postby the smokey » Wed Jul 18, 2018 3:18 pm

You're using the fact that Victoria are poaching young players from our state as a criticism of the system?

It's the opposite.

Grade cricket is a money pit. There are too many clubs and most sit there with their hands out. If they had more money most would just spend it on players from other clubs, not making one iota of difference to the standard of grade cricket overall.

It's a shame but grade cricket has been replaced to a degree. The players on the edges of the first class system and the talented players coming through are catered for elsewhere; they spend winters at the centre of excellence, are in the emerging Redbacks squad, play Future's League.

Grade cricket is no longer a direct breeding ground for first class cricketers. Some yearn for the good ol' days when grade cricket was king and was highly relevant but you can never go back. Did grade cricket get more funding back then? Is that why it was better? No.[/quote]

Premier cricket hasn't been classified as the top standard of cricket in SA since the redbacks league was created. the reason why that created it was they tried to push clubs out or merge them and the clubs didn't want a bar of it so the SACA created there own league (the redbacks league or what ever it was called before this)

this was there way of trying to create something similar to what they wanted. Even the colleges dont rank A grade premier cricket as the pinnacle of grade cricket anymore. when a top college forced a player to play for them last year rather than in the A grade last year by stating that "they will release the student to play in the top league in the state and that is the redbacks league and therefore he couldn't play in the A grade.
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Re: Grade Cricket

Postby The Myth » Wed Jul 18, 2018 5:49 pm

Grade/Premier cricket should always be the stepping stone for State cricket. Since Cricket Australia changed the structure in which it hasnt been, how has that worked out for them? Australian cricket has dropped the ball here and has weakened and diluted all comps amd we are not producing the cricketers we once were. Something has to give
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Re: Grade Cricket

Postby Tony Clifton » Wed Jul 18, 2018 8:18 pm

the smokey wrote:Premier cricket hasn't been classified as the top standard of cricket in SA since the redbacks league was created. the reason why that created it was they tried to push clubs out or merge them and the clubs didn't want a bar of it so the SACA created there own league (the redbacks league or what ever it was called before this)

this was there way of trying to create something similar to what they wanted. Even the colleges dont rank A grade premier cricket as the pinnacle of grade cricket anymore. when a top college forced a player to play for them last year rather than in the A grade last year by stating that "they will release the student to play in the top league in the state and that is the redbacks league and therefore he couldn't play in the A grade.

The weight given to grade cricket was diminishing long before the Redbacks league came in.

It's an Australia-wide issue. It doesn't just exist in SA because we have Redbacks league during the preseason.

The strong colleges haven't released players for A Grade for a long time. They don't interstate either. It's nothing to do with Redbacks league. A college may indeed have trotted out that excuse once but it was just a BS reason.
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Re: Grade Cricket

Postby Trader » Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:35 pm

SACA tries to strengthen grade cricket by reducing the number of teams, Grade clubs vote against it.
SACA creates an elite comp to try and reduce the gap between grade cricket and first class cricket, grade clubs say its a waste of money.
Grade clubs complain they aren't taken seriously.

The sooner the SACA completely dismantle the grade comp and invite 8 clubs to a new league the better.
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Re: Grade Cricket

Postby heater31 » Thu Jul 19, 2018 9:08 am

Trader wrote:SACA tries to strengthen grade cricket by reducing the number of teams, Grade clubs vote against it.
SACA creates an elite comp to try and reduce the gap between grade cricket and first class cricket, grade clubs say its a waste of money.
Grade clubs complain they aren't taken seriously.


Correction on the reduction of clubs......certain clubs complained to their local MP who got a parliamentary committee to look into the matter
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Re: Grade Cricket

Postby Lightning McQueen » Thu Jul 19, 2018 11:05 am

heater31 wrote:
Trader wrote:SACA tries to strengthen grade cricket by reducing the number of teams, Grade clubs vote against it.
SACA creates an elite comp to try and reduce the gap between grade cricket and first class cricket, grade clubs say its a waste of money.
Grade clubs complain they aren't taken seriously.


Correction on the reduction of clubs......certain clubs complained to their local MP who got a parliamentary committee to look into the matter


It wouldn't have mattered which clubs were placed in the firing line, any of them would've done what they had to in order to keep their identity.
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Re: Grade Cricket

Postby Lightning McQueen » Thu Jul 19, 2018 11:10 am

Trader wrote:
The sooner the SACA completely dismantle the grade comp and invite 8 clubs to a new league the better.

Merge with ATCA and have a promotion/relegation system with 8 club divisions.

Maintain the B Grade where they play at the opposite ground to the A's, the C's and D's become optional in the overall picture.

It wont ever happen but it would strengthen the A Grade comp.
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Re: Grade Cricket

Postby The Myth » Thu Jul 19, 2018 11:58 am

Do you think the two clubs that have won 4 out of the last 6 A grade premierships over the last 2 seasons should have been kicked out Heater? I think if the SACA dod things better and the right way then 8-10 clubs would definately be possible. Of course West Torrens were going to fight it and rightfully so.
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Re: Grade Cricket

Postby Tony Clifton » Thu Jul 19, 2018 4:55 pm

Kicking out clubs is the wrong mindset.

Clubs should have to apply and present their case for inclusion. Eight licenses to give out.

Some clubs may see the writing on the wall and decide to put in a joint application.
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Re: Grade Cricket

Postby Trader » Thu Jul 19, 2018 5:21 pm

Exactly.
Kicking them out or forcing mergers is never going to work.
Creating a new comp and inviting teams is the only way it will work.
It also doesn't force teams to merge that don't want to. They can still exists as clubs and join another comp, most likely ATCA.
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Re: Grade Cricket

Postby The Bedge » Thu Jul 19, 2018 5:30 pm

Out of curiosity, have there been any (former) grade clubs that have moved to ATCA?
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Re: Grade Cricket

Postby tigerpie » Thu Jul 19, 2018 6:27 pm

Merging grade and atca wouldn't work. Blokes are leaving grade cricket in their prime because they don't have to play Sundays.
The commitment is less and the financial incentives greater at some clubs.
The problem, I think, lies in the development of juniors.
Some promising juniors are plain sick of the game by the time they get to seniors and quit the game all together.

Retention is the key and I guess that boils down to the mighty dollar. How clubs generate that money is the answer.
Do SACA create a development fund that is spent solely on the best junior lads not on imports or poaching seniors from other clubs.
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Re: Grade Cricket

Postby heater31 » Thu Jul 19, 2018 6:39 pm

tigerpie wrote:Retention is the key and I guess that boils down to the mighty dollar. How clubs generate that money is the answer.
Do SACA create a development fund that is spent solely on the best junior lads not on imports or poaching seniors from other clubs.



Cricket Australia have placed targets on Premier Cricket Clubs to have cash in the bank and revenue streams not generated from the playing operations (Player Fees). This will eventually lead to more money for coaches/player coaches to stay at the higher level.


The Players Association already have a fund for these club to access funds for former First Class players to top up their coaching salary or pay them to play.
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Re: Grade Cricket

Postby tigerpie » Thu Jul 19, 2018 7:33 pm

Will more coaches solve the problem though?
Too many voices/mixed messages are part of the problem.
I'm thinking more along the lines of financially rewarding the kids making state juniors then going on to rewarding first a grade game, second xi state, senior state etc.
Get rid of 14 and 16 white sides wouldn't be a dumb idea either some on here are saying and I tend to agree.
Clubs would hate it though as they'd take a financial hit!
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Re: Grade Cricket

Postby billy » Thu Jul 19, 2018 9:26 pm

You're using the fact that Victoria are poaching young players from our state as a criticism of the system?

It's the opposite.

Grade cricket is a money pit. There are too many clubs and most sit there with their hands out. If they had more money most would just spend it on players from other clubs, not making one iota of difference to the standard of grade cricket overall.

It's a shame but grade cricket has been replaced to a degree. The players on the edges of the first class system and the talented players coming through are catered for elsewhere; they spend winters at the centre of excellence, are in the emerging Redbacks squad, play Future's League.

Grade cricket is no longer a direct breeding ground for first class cricketers. Some yearn for the good ol' days when grade cricket was king and was highly relevant but you can never go back. Did grade cricket get more funding back then? Is that why it was better? No.
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No, what I am saying is that losing players to Victoria is poor management of high performance players in our system. Effective player management would have meant there would have been the development of a positive relationship with that player and his manager which clearly did not happen. That is a separate issue.

A critical part of winning is not losing your best talent to another state!

O'Connell has shown elite talent from the beginning, he should have been managed as a player to play first class cricket in this state, he was offered the absolute baseline and his management left to think there would be no negotiation on the numbers, this is disappointing in my opinion.

I agree with your argument about too many clubs and there is no doubt that needs to happen. However grade cricket is an important part of our system, what is happening in Australian cricket at the moment is a rationalisation, and the funding being wasted on the Redbacks league would be much better spent on player development and coaching in a better funded grade cricket system. Moving to a 2 division system with 8 teams in each sooner rather than later will help significantly, all of the players who are a part of the high performance department come out of the grade cricket system so I strongly dispute your claim that it is irrelevant.

Learning to take responsibility in your club is an important part of developing integrity as a person, it is time honoured and for individuals in this state to continue to argue differently is dragging down the culture of cricket in this state. What do we know that the rest of Australia doesn't know ,we appear to be happy to continue to throw money on the ground with the Redbacks league that is perpetuating attitudes that are very unhelpful in my opinion, I also strongly question whether that is the best way to develop high end cricketers in this state.

Instead of blaming the inadequately funded grade system why don't we do something different, fund it properly, rationalise the amount of clubs in the first division/grade and use some of this high performance funding to run a better grade club environment.

Your argument seems so keen to fall in line with the status quo line that prevails with some administrators and board members in SACA, it is no accident that grade cricket has served this country well and the poor management occurring in this state, of the grade cricket system is the reason why we cannot move forward in my opinion.

Yes, first class players improve by playing against high quality opposition, what appears to be the argument is that we should take all the players away from the system that developed them, put them in a shed like robots and hey presto, you have first class players, I am sure we can do better than this sort of segregation from their club environment.

These first class players love their clubs and want to contribute back to improving the environment that developed them, we seem to know better in South Australia, you can only get better by being with the elite, I don’t agree with this thinking.

Is it any wonder we continue to fail , so 2 thousand people in Sydney watching Shane Watson in a grade match can never happen in this state, because he wouldn't be allowed to play. We appear to know better here , so much better we have won 1 shield in over 30 years and we are running a separate competition before grade cricket starts with no first class players and with many second grade players .. that is high performance ?! Meanwhile we continue to start the grade cricket season 3-4 weeks after the other states ! This needs to change in my opinion.

It can’t be that hard to set in place a restructure …. SACA in an honest appraisal would certainly admit they could have done better with their original attempt to merge a club who won all three premierships and then last season won the Women’s premiership. The way it was done lacked diligence in my opinion and this was clearly identified by the parliamentary committee. Going to 2 divisions would allow some community clubs to become involved in a second division …. and allow all clubs to remain intact.

I am surprised that college cricket would be quoted as a serious option for those young players …. !! People have been waiting in vain for a shift in the approach to programming within that system to enable those young men to participate at the highest level possible, for the good of those schools and their cultures it would be an excellent approach if a different timetabling of those games could be offered.
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Re: Grade Cricket

Postby niCe_gARRy » Thu Jul 19, 2018 10:43 pm

Billy, you’re taking the pi55 with this crap. You’re a no body
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Re: Grade Cricket

Postby Trader » Fri Jul 20, 2018 10:42 am

The Bedge wrote:Out of curiosity, have there been any (former) grade clubs that have moved to ATCA?


Not that I can think of off the top of my head.
That said, there are a number of grade clubs that have teams in the turf comp already, Uni, Kensi and Sturt jump to mind straight away.
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Re: Grade Cricket

Postby Trader » Fri Jul 20, 2018 10:46 am

tigerpie wrote:Merging grade and atca wouldn't work. Blokes are leaving grade cricket in their prime because they don't have to play Sundays.


Merging isn't really being suggested, more so a new structure above turf (ie 8 clubs), with the leftovers to find a new comp, which would most likely be ATCA.
Those 8 clubs can still play their sat/sun games, 11am starts, large training commitments etc.

As you say, there are already blokes 'dropping back' to turf cricket due to the reduced commitment, so trying to maintain a 13 club pool of dedicated players is too tough to remain effective. Get that back to 8 and the comp will be of a reasonable standard.

The turf comp then can be a feeder to district.
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