Abbott/Liberal Govt Watch

[Jimmy_041]

Shouldn't we wait for the Murray Darling Royal Commission to tell us what really has happened?
The final report is to be handed to the Governor on 1st February

So you've stopped praying for rain?

I dont pray but I am hoping we haven't wasted $10m to merely supplement Weatherill's re-election campaign.
But, to be fair, it's a spit in the river compared to the fossil fuel burning generators at $600m+ that haven't been used (another part of Weatherill's re-election campaign) and $1.83Bn for the Desal plant that has run at 10% for the past 6 years. (Rann's election campaign)

Infrastructure spending is really good if you use the stuff................

[Trader]

25% approximately of all irrigation water usage in Australia is used growing cotton. I'd like to see what percentage cotton farmers make up of all irrigators. It's quite scary when u look at it that way.

What was the figure last year given the allocation reduction? Gwydir, Namoi and Macquarie valleys all on zero % allocation.

Australian cotton is the most efficient in the world - we've doubled our water use efficiency in the last two decades. Cotton returns nearly the most money to the economy on a per megalitre basis.

Cotton uses about 8Ml/ha and is about 3Ml/ha in places like Namoi. Corn uses 10Ml/ha. Wine Grapes use 6Ml/ha. Lucerne 6Ml/ha. Almonds and citrus use 8Ml/ha. Why not the outrage at these other crops?

BULLSHIT !
Are you a cotton grower ?

No, but I'm an Ag Scientist with an environmental science degree

https://www.indexmundi.com/agriculture/?commodity=cotton&graph=yield

Q, interesting stats in relation to the cotton productions water use of 8ML/ha.

Corn 10
Cotton 8
Almonds 8
Citrus 8
Grapes 6
Lucerne 6

Puts it at the upper end of the spectrum, and to be honest, I'm not sure how big our corn industry is.

Also, is that for a standard figure world wide, or is that based in Australia?

The link you posted was very surprising, showing Australia's Cotton Yield per HA as the best in the world.
Now that could be for a number of reasons, and you are putting forward the suggestion that it is due to our efficiencies within our cotton industry, which I have no reason to doubt.

However, others may argue that these rates show that we are over working the land and pushing for yields 88% higher than America (who you would assume have access to very similar efficiencies than Australian cotton farmers).
Could these massive yields, (which granted I am assuming) only be possible from massive water use?
IE: In America they might be using 8ML / ha of cotton field, but in Australia we are pushing to the absolute limit and using say 10, 12 or even 15 ML/ha?

[Booney]

Could these massive yields, (which granted I am assuming) only be possible from massive water use?

I've done a little reading today, not much, but a little and found our cotton is among some of the most genetically modified in the world.

[Q.]

Q, interesting stats in relation to the cotton productions water use of 8ML/ha.

Corn 10
Cotton 8
Almonds 8
Citrus 8
Grapes 6
Lucerne 6

Puts it at the upper end of the spectrum, and to be honest, I'm not sure how big our corn industry is.

Also, is that for a standard figure world wide, or is that based in Australia?

The link you posted was very surprising, showing Australia's Cotton Yield per HA as the best in the world.
Now that could be for a number of reasons, and you are putting forward the suggestion that it is due to our efficiencies within our cotton industry, which I have no reason to doubt.

However, others may argue that these rates show that we are over working the land and pushing for yields 88% higher than America (who you would assume have access to very similar efficiencies than Australian cotton farmers).
Could these massive yields, (which granted I am assuming) only be possible from massive water use?
IE: In America they might be using 8ML / ha of cotton field, but in Australia we are pushing to the absolute limit and using say 10, 12 or even 15 ML/ha?

Genetics. We've developed the most water efficient varieties in the world.

[Q.]

Just one of many views ,

Congratulations to Professor Scwerdtfeger from Flinders Uni . At least someone has said what has appeared to be obvious for years - perhaps we shouldn't be planting crops like rice and cotton in Australia .

Why? In the driest content on earth , we are planting two crops that require inordinate amounts of water? Money , of course! The cotton and rice growers reap great rewards and sell their products on a world market but it really doesn't matter that there really isn't enough water for the rest of those dependent on the river flows.

How much water would have been available to other growers in the Murray- Darling basin of other more sustainable crops that are used to supply 40 per cent of the Australian food market if these crops had not been grown ?

Except that it ignores the fact that we already have an abundant horticultural supply for our domestic market.

[Trader]

Ok, have done some crude number crunching based on what I could find on the ABS website.

4618.0 - Water Use on Australian Farms, 2016-17
4610.0.55.008 - Gross Value of Irrigated Agricultural Production, 2016-17

Cotton accounted for 28.36% of irrigation use, however only produced 10.93% of Gross Value. (A ratio of just 0.39)

I guess that's where the anguish is coming from.
I have no issue with the cotton industry using a sh!tload of water, provided it was producing a profit and paying tax accordingly.

However, based on the above, it appears as though the Cotton industry is inefficient in terms of turning that irrigation into $$$.

By industry, the other ratios are as follows:
Nurseries, cut flowers and cultivated turf - 14.17
Vegetables for human consumption - 5.56
Fruit, nuts, plantation or berry fruits - 2.75
Grapevines - 2.00
Other broadacre crops - 0.63
Sugar cane - 0.56
Pasture, cereal and other crops used for grazing or silage - 0.42
Other cereals for grain or seed - 0.40
Cotton - 0.39
Pasture, cereal and other crops cut for hay - 0.30
Rice - 0.17

Of those bottom three, Cotton (28.36%), and Rice (10.39%) are massive users of water and therefore naturally cop the ire from environmentalists.

[Bum Crack]

Ok, have done some crude number crunching based on what I could find on the ABS website.

4618.0 - Water Use on Australian Farms, 2016-17
4610.0.55.008 - Gross Value of Irrigated Agricultural Production, 2016-17

Cotton accounted for 28.36% of irrigation use, however only produced 10.93% of Gross Value. (A ratio of just 0.39)

I guess that's where the anguish is coming from.
I have no issue with the cotton industry using a sh!tload of water, provided it was producing a profit and paying tax accordingly.

However, based on the above, it appears as though the Cotton industry is inefficient in terms of turning that irrigation into $$$.

By industry, the other ratios are as follows:
Nurseries, cut flowers and cultivated turf - 14.17
Vegetables for human consumption - 5.56
Fruit, nuts, plantation or berry fruits - 2.75
Grapevines - 2.00
Other broadacre crops - 0.63
Sugar cane - 0.56
Pasture, cereal and other crops used for grazing or silage - 0.42
Other cereals for grain or seed - 0.40
Cotton - 0.39
Pasture, cereal and other crops cut for hay - 0.30
Rice - 0.17

Of those bottom three, Cotton (28.36%), and Rice (10.39%) are massive users of water and therefore naturally cop the ire from environmentalists.

That is a terrible attitude.

[Q.]

4610.0.55.008 - Gross Value of Irrigated Agricultural Production, 2016-17

Just be aware that the figure for cotton only accounts for lint production.

And that 2016-17 had high inflow. 2018 has experienced record low inflow.

Water allocation is calibrated to inflow, hence the zero allocation this season.

[stan]

Shouldn't we wait for the Murray Darling Royal Commission to tell us what really has happened?
The final report is to be handed to the Governor on 1st February

So you've stopped praying for rain?

I dont pray but I am hoping we haven't wasted $10m to merely supplement Weatherill's re-election campaign.
But, to be fair, it's a spit in the river compared to the fossil fuel burning generators at $600m+ that haven't been used (another part of Weatherill's re-election campaign) and $1.83Bn for the Desal plant that has run at 10% for the past 6 years. (Rann's election campaign)

Infrastructure spending is really good if you use the stuff................

Desal has been running at 30% mate.

[Jimmy_041]

Shouldn't we wait for the Murray Darling Royal Commission to tell us what really has happened?
The final report is to be handed to the Governor on 1st February

So you've stopped praying for rain?

I dont pray but I am hoping we haven't wasted $10m to merely supplement Weatherill's re-election campaign.
But, to be fair, it's a spit in the river compared to the fossil fuel burning generators at $600m+ that haven't been used (another part of Weatherill's re-election campaign) and $1.83Bn for the Desal plant that has run at 10% for the past 6 years. (Rann's election campaign)

Infrastructure spending is really good if you use the stuff................

Desal has been running at 30% mate.

Goddamn ABC...........

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-10-28/adelaide-desal-plant-too-big-and-too-expensive/9096046

[Trader]

I have no issue with the cotton industry using a sh!tload of water, provided it was producing a profit and paying tax accordingly.

That is a terrible attitude.

Clearly that was in relation to a comparison to the other irrigators, rather than at the expense of the river system.
If water is being used to irrigate, I don't care which product it goes to, provided they are using it efficiently.

[stan]

SA Govt temp generators have bee switched on for the first time in anger to export to Victoria.

It looks like SA grid and hung on ok expect for localised failures. Expect our govt fleet of diesels to crank up but also other peaking stations such as Lonsdale and Snugery are on as well.

Currently an additional 405 MW was diesel generators to grid.

[stan]

Here's the graphic.

[Q.]

SA Govt temp generators have bee switched on for the first time in anger to export to Victoria.

It looks like SA grid and hung on ok expect for localised failures. Expect our govt fleet of diesels to crank up but also other peaking stations such as Lonsdale and Snugery are on as well.

Currently an additional 405 MW was diesel generators to grid.

Bloody Vics and their unreliable coal power

[stan]

SA Govt temp generators have bee switched on for the first time in anger to export to Victoria.

It looks like SA grid and hung on ok expect for localised failures. Expect our govt fleet of diesels to crank up but also other peaking stations such as Lonsdale and Snugery are on as well.

Currently an additional 405 MW was diesel generators to grid.

Bloody Vics and their unreliable coal power

Would not have been an issue if Hazelwood didn't such and certain power generators deciding not to take generation units offline to do maintenance because they had to be now and couldn't have been scheduled in any other time.

It's just playing the market.

AEMO activated the RERT last night and called on the state government engines. Hence prices hit the roof. $$$$$ to be made as usual.

The grid has settled a bit now though.

[DOC]

Warren Mundine.

What a train wreck. They cannot win the next election with this sort of idiotic decision making.

[stan]

RERT activated in Victoria. SA providing assistance to Victoria and it's hurting our wholesale price.

[shoe boy]

Warren Mundine.

What a train wreck. They cannot win the next election with this sort of idiotic decision making.

Uncle Tom !

[Q.]

SA Govt temp generators have bee switched on for the first time in anger to export to Victoria.

It looks like SA grid and hung on ok expect for localised failures. Expect our govt fleet of diesels to crank up but also other peaking stations such as Lonsdale and Snugery are on as well.

Currently an additional 405 MW was diesel generators to grid.

Bloody Vics and their unreliable coal power

Would not have been an issue if Hazelwood didn't such and certain power generators deciding not to take generation units offline to do maintenance because they had to be now and couldn't have been scheduled in any other time.

It's just playing the market.

AEMO activated the RERT last night and called on the state government engines. Hence prices hit the roof. $$$$$ to be made as usual.

The grid has settled a bit now though.

Yep, 1000MW unavailable from coal yesterday. Market gamed for a $14,000 MW spot price

[stan]

SA Govt temp generators have bee switched on for the first time in anger to export to Victoria.

It looks like SA grid and hung on ok expect for localised failures. Expect our govt fleet of diesels to crank up but also other peaking stations such as Lonsdale and Snugery are on as well.

Currently an additional 405 MW was diesel generators to grid.

Bloody Vics and their unreliable coal power

Would not have been an issue if Hazelwood didn't such and certain power generators deciding not to take generation units offline to do maintenance because they had to be now and couldn't have been scheduled in any other time.

It's just playing the market.

AEMO activated the RERT last night and called on the state government engines. Hence prices hit the roof. $$$$$ to be made as usual.

The grid has settled a bit now though.

Yep, 1000MW unavailable from coal yesterday. Market gamed for a $14,000 MW spot price

Renewables provided almost nothing yesterday when needed.

At the end of the day the issue is cause by Hazelwood shutting down.

SAs problem is still the lack of generation. I'm not suggesting that Northern or Playford B were the answer as I and fully aware of the issues with the Leigh Creek coal source, however another generation source to SAs Market would make a big difference.

There are a couple of pumped hydro projects that could inject another 250 - 400 MW to our grid being looked at.

Also hats off to Jay and his guys, whilst I do feel he has let us down in the long term with energy, his government engines project provided the needed stabily and generation to the grid.

What we need is to get these engines on to gas and get them part of the market. If that means the SA government become an energy player again, then so be it.