Greatest Pakistani XI

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Re: Greatest Pakistani XI

Postby Failed Creation » Mon Nov 25, 2019 1:14 pm

Lightning McQueen wrote:
Off The Wall wrote:Lillee was on his way out in 83

I'm a little older than FC, purely based on what I've seen.


That's how I looked at it too. I'd loved to have seen Lillee in full flight.

I'll have to settle on watching him bowl against a Businessman's XI in the early 1990s.
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Re: Greatest Pakistani XI

Postby Lightning McQueen » Mon Nov 25, 2019 1:30 pm

Failed Creation wrote:
That's how I looked at it too. I'd loved to have seen Lillee in full flight.

I'll have to settle on watching him bowl against a Businessman's XI in the early 1990s.


I was having a team mate bowl to me while waiting to bat at Parkinson Oval one day when none other than the great DK was jogging through the park, we asked if he could bowl a few at us to which he obliged, a very memorable moment, would've been around 1992 for memory.
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Re: Greatest Pakistani XI

Postby Failed Creation » Mon Nov 25, 2019 1:32 pm

Lightning McQueen wrote:
Failed Creation wrote:
That's how I looked at it too. I'd loved to have seen Lillee in full flight.

I'll have to settle on watching him bowl against a Businessman's XI in the early 1990s.


I was having a team mate bowl to me while waiting to bat at Parkinson Oval one day when none other than the great DK was jogging through the park, we asked if he could bowl a few at us to which he obliged, a very memorable moment, would've been around 1992 for memory.


Lucky bastards...

I think that would have been around the same time. I'm pretty sure it was during the Windies tour in 1992/93.
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Re: Greatest Pakistani XI

Postby FlyingHigh » Mon Nov 25, 2019 2:50 pm

Lightning McQueen wrote:
Failed Creation wrote:My Australian XI - 1983 to Present:

Taylor (c)
Hayden
Ponting
Smith
S. Waugh
Gilchrist
Healy (wk)
Warne
Gillespie
McDermott
McGrath

Tough one to pick, obviously.

Players unlucky to miss out: Border, Boon, Langer, M. Waugh, Clarke, Johnson, Lyon.


Hayden
Langer
Ponting
Smith
S.Waugh
Border
Gilchrist
Warne
Gillespie
Lillee
McGrath


If you're picking a team around a captain, Tubby has to be in there for sure.
If you're picking your best XI and then the captain in the usual Australian way, then as a player Tubby probably doesn't quite make it
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Re: Greatest Pakistani XI

Postby FlyingHigh » Mon Nov 25, 2019 2:53 pm

Lightning McQueen wrote:ENGLAND
A.Cook
J.Trott
K.Pietersen
J.Root
D.Gower
G.Thorpe
I.Botham
A.Stewart
S.Broad
J.Anderson
B.Willis


Gooch instead of Trott to open?
I'd probably go Root 3, Thorpe 4, Pietersen 6, from memory Pietersen did bat a fair bit 4-5.
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Re: Greatest Pakistani XI

Postby Lightning McQueen » Mon Nov 25, 2019 2:55 pm

FlyingHigh wrote:
Lightning McQueen wrote:ENGLAND
A.Cook
J.Trott
K.Pietersen
J.Root
D.Gower
G.Thorpe
I.Botham
A.Stewart
S.Broad
J.Anderson
B.Willis


Gooch instead of Trott to open?
I'd probably go Root 3, Thorpe 4, Pietersen 6, from memory Pietersen did bat a fair bit 4-5.


Yeah, that was a tough one, I had Gooch initially but then opted for Trott, I just recall Trott being very difficult for us to dismiss, Gooch had some lean periods, there's a fair case for either.
Last edited by Lightning McQueen on Mon Nov 25, 2019 3:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Greatest Pakistani XI

Postby Lightning McQueen » Mon Nov 25, 2019 2:58 pm

FlyingHigh wrote:If you're picking a team around a captain, Tubby has to be in there for sure.
If you're picking your best XI and then the captain in the usual Australian way, then as a player Tubby probably doesn't quite make it


I wasn't a Tubby fan, I thought he played on too long and delayed the unearthing of Hayden, his 334* brought him extra time, he was going pretty shit prior to that for some time.

I also thought that Tugga and Ponting were better captains, they played with grit and led from the front, and although I may cop criticism for it, I thought Taylor batted too slow, all the others were aggressive and played for wins.
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Re: Greatest Pakistani XI

Postby FlyingHigh » Mon Nov 25, 2019 3:23 pm

Lightning McQueen wrote:
FlyingHigh wrote:If you're picking a team around a captain, Tubby has to be in there for sure.
If you're picking your best XI and then the captain in the usual Australian way, then as a player Tubby probably doesn't quite make it


I wasn't a Tubby fan, I thought he played on too long and delayed the unearthing of Hayden, his 334* brought him extra time, he was going pretty shit prior to that for some time.

I also thought that Tugga and Ponting were better captains, they played with grit and led from the front, and although I may cop criticism for it, I thought Taylor batted too slow, all the others were aggressive and played for wins.


Tubby only played one more series, 98/99 Ashes, after making that score. Regarding Hayden, it's a plausible argument in the preceding year or two, although in that time the selectors ditched Slater and tried Elliott. They also tried Blewett and Slater together after Taylor before Hayden from memory.

I thought Tubs was a far better tactical captain and there was a new freshness about the team when he took over. Same reasons I rate Clarke ahead of those those two as well. Remember too it was Tubs, before he was captain, who believed in Warne when perhaps himself and AB didn't.
Tubs probably had the best of Warne, Waugh and Ponting the best of the fast bowling.
Someone once pointed out, not sure whether it was on here or not, that one of the things to Waugh's credit was the way he was able to keep some of the big personalities, tough characters and egos on the right track.
Clarke I thought knew how to handle spinners better than Ponting post Warne. I don't think Lyon would have succeeded under Ponting.
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Re: Greatest Pakistani XI

Postby FlyingHigh » Mon Nov 25, 2019 3:31 pm

Lightning McQueen wrote:
FlyingHigh wrote:
Lightning McQueen wrote:ENGLAND
A.Cook
J.Trott
K.Pietersen
J.Root
D.Gower
G.Thorpe
I.Botham
A.Stewart
S.Broad
J.Anderson
B.Willis


Gooch instead of Trott to open?
I'd probably go Root 3, Thorpe 4, Pietersen 6, from memory Pietersen did bat a fair bit 4-5.




Yeah, that was a tough one, I had Gooch initially but then opted for Trott, I just recall Trott being very difficult for us to dismiss, Gooch had some lean periods, there's a fair case for either.


When the cricket in England was washed out this year, they showed highlights of 94/95 Gabba test when Gooch was around 40, and watching it you intuitively knew he was better equipped and had more know-how to handle Warne than anyone else. Granted that was a fairly small snapshot, but he also played all his cricket when the WIndies were at their peak (without looking up his record), and also ran into Imran, Akram, Waqar
Last edited by FlyingHigh on Mon Nov 25, 2019 3:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Greatest Pakistani XI

Postby Lightning McQueen » Mon Nov 25, 2019 3:32 pm

FlyingHigh wrote:
Lightning McQueen wrote:
FlyingHigh wrote:If you're picking a team around a captain, Tubby has to be in there for sure.
If you're picking your best XI and then the captain in the usual Australian way, then as a player Tubby probably doesn't quite make it


I wasn't a Tubby fan, I thought he played on too long and delayed the unearthing of Hayden, his 334* brought him extra time, he was going pretty shit prior to that for some time.

I also thought that Tugga and Ponting were better captains, they played with grit and led from the front, and although I may cop criticism for it, I thought Taylor batted too slow, all the others were aggressive and played for wins.


Tubby only played one more series, 98/99 Ashes, after making that score. Regarding Hayden, it's a plausible argument in the preceding year or two, although in that time the selectors ditched Slater and tried Elliott. They also tried Blewett and Slater together after Taylor before Hayden from memory.

I thought Tubs was a far better tactical captain and there was a new freshness about the team when he took over. Same reasons I rate Clarke ahead of those those two as well. Remember too it was Tubs, before he was captain, who believed in Warne when perhaps himself and AB didn't.
Tubs probably had the best of Warne, Waugh and Ponting the best of the fast bowling.
Someone once pointed out, not sure whether it was on here or not, that one of the things to Waugh's credit was the way he was able to keep some of the big personalities, tough characters and egos on the right track.
Clarke I thought knew how to handle spinners better than Ponting post Warne. I don't think Lyon would have succeeded under Ponting.


I thought Blewie got ripped off as the selectors babied Ponting, he was scoring freely at 6 while Punter was failing at 3, Blewie went up the order and Ponting nestled in at 6 and the rest is history.

I don't think there's any right or wrong answers, only opinions as they were all successful leaders in a golden era.
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Re: Greatest Pakistani XI

Postby FlyingHigh » Mon Nov 25, 2019 5:24 pm

Lightning McQueen wrote:
FlyingHigh wrote:
Lightning McQueen wrote:
FlyingHigh wrote:If you're picking a team around a captain, Tubby has to be in there for sure.
If you're picking your best XI and then the captain in the usual Australian way, then as a player Tubby probably doesn't quite make it


I wasn't a Tubby fan, I thought he played on too long and delayed the unearthing of Hayden, his 334* brought him extra time, he was going pretty shit prior to that for some time.

I also thought that Tugga and Ponting were better captains, they played with grit and led from the front, and although I may cop criticism for it, I thought Taylor batted too slow, all the others were aggressive and played for wins.


Tubby only played one more series, 98/99 Ashes, after making that score. Regarding Hayden, it's a plausible argument in the preceding year or two, although in that time the selectors ditched Slater and tried Elliott. They also tried Blewett and Slater together after Taylor before Hayden from memory.

I thought Tubs was a far better tactical captain and there was a new freshness about the team when he took over. Same reasons I rate Clarke ahead of those those two as well. Remember too it was Tubs, before he was captain, who believed in Warne when perhaps himself and AB didn't.
Tubs probably had the best of Warne, Waugh and Ponting the best of the fast bowling.
Someone once pointed out, not sure whether it was on here or not, that one of the things to Waugh's credit was the way he was able to keep some of the big personalities, tough characters and egos on the right track.
Clarke I thought knew how to handle spinners better than Ponting post Warne. I don't think Lyon would have succeeded under Ponting.


I thought Blewie got ripped off as the selectors babied Ponting, he was scoring freely at 6 while Punter was failing at 3, Blewie went up the order and Ponting nestled in at 6 and the rest is history.

I don't think there's any right or wrong answers, only opinions as they were all successful leaders in a golden era.


Funny how we perceive things, because I thought the selectors were too hasty in wanting to get Ponting up to number 3 in 96/97 against the Windies and that is why they bought in Elliott as a safer option than Slater. No coincidence Taylor went through his slump when Slater was dropped.
And then the selectors changed track pretty quickly, and, like you say, Ponting was at number 6 for a while, but I never thought Blewett was being used as a fallguy because he was at that age and stage in his career when he should have been taking that next step, and did well enough without ever quite nailing it.

Edit: After looking through some of the scorecards, can see why you think Ponting was being protected, and it was Langer as well as Blewett at no 3 a lot of the time.
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Re: Greatest Pakistani XI

Postby Grenville » Mon Nov 25, 2019 6:06 pm

Lightning McQueen wrote:
Grenville wrote:
Failed Creation wrote:We ought to do one for all the established Test playing nations.


Best Windies collection in my time -

Haynes
Greenidge
Richardson
Richards
Lara
Lloyd
Dujon
Marshall
Garner
Holding
Ambrose

Game over, no team would beat this mob.


Walsh is very unlucky there, not that I don't agree with you.


Walsh very unlucky but couldn't squeeze him in front of the others. Australia's best team around the 2000's would go as close as any to knocking them off but I just couldn't see them getting rolled. As others have said watching Warne bowling to Viv would've been worth the entry fee alone.
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Re: Greatest Pakistani XI

Postby Grenville » Mon Nov 25, 2019 6:08 pm

Failed Creation wrote:
Lightning McQueen wrote:
Grenville wrote:
Failed Creation wrote:We ought to do one for all the established Test playing nations.


Best Windies collection in my time -

Haynes
Greenidge
Richardson
Richards
Lara
Lloyd
Dujon
Marshall
Garner
Holding
Ambrose

Game over, no team would beat this mob.


Walsh is very unlucky there, not that I don't agree with you.


Andy Roberts too...


Andy Roberts was just before my time.
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Re: Greatest Pakistani XI

Postby Grenville » Mon Nov 25, 2019 6:10 pm

FlyingHigh wrote:
Lightning McQueen wrote:
Failed Creation wrote:My Australian XI - 1983 to Present:

Taylor (c)
Hayden
Ponting
Smith
S. Waugh
Gilchrist
Healy (wk)
Warne
Gillespie
McDermott
McGrath

Tough one to pick, obviously.

Players unlucky to miss out: Border, Boon, Langer, M. Waugh, Clarke, Johnson, Lyon.


Hayden
Langer
Ponting
Smith
S.Waugh
Border
Gilchrist
Warne
Gillespie
Lillee
McGrath


If you're picking a team around a captain, Tubby has to be in there for sure.
If you're picking your best XI and then the captain in the usual Australian way, then as a player Tubby probably doesn't quite make it


AB is one of the first picked, he saved our arses almost single handedly numerous times against the Windies in their pomp.
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Re: Greatest Pakistani XI

Postby Grenville » Mon Nov 25, 2019 6:12 pm

FlyingHigh wrote:
Lightning McQueen wrote:ENGLAND
A.Cook
J.Trott
K.Pietersen
J.Root
D.Gower
G.Thorpe
I.Botham
A.Stewart
S.Broad
J.Anderson
B.Willis


Gooch instead of Trott to open?
I'd probably go Root 3, Thorpe 4, Pietersen 6, from memory Pietersen did bat a fair bit 4-5.


Agreed, Goochie shits on Trott.
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Re: Greatest Pakistani XI

Postby amber_fluid » Mon Nov 25, 2019 7:35 pm

Grenville wrote:
FlyingHigh wrote:
Lightning McQueen wrote:
Failed Creation wrote:My Australian XI - 1983 to Present:

Taylor (c)
Hayden
Ponting
Smith
S. Waugh
Gilchrist
Healy (wk)
Warne
Gillespie
McDermott
McGrath

Tough one to pick, obviously.

Players unlucky to miss out: Border, Boon, Langer, M. Waugh, Clarke, Johnson, Lyon.


Hayden
Langer
Ponting
Smith
S.Waugh
Border
Gilchrist
Warne
Gillespie
Lillee
McGrath


If you're picking a team around a captain, Tubby has to be in there for sure.
If you're picking your best XI and then the captain in the usual Australian way, then as a player Tubby probably doesn't quite make it


AB is one of the first picked, he saved our arses almost single handedly numerous times against the Windies in their pomp.


AB is first picked in my team closely followed by Warne, McGrath and Gilly.
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Re: Greatest Pakistani XI

Postby Lightning McQueen » Tue Nov 26, 2019 8:24 am

One thing that I find interesting is that S.Waugh, Punter and Clarke all got dropped earlier in their careers, then came back to be more complete cricketers and great captains, same thing happened to Steve Smith.
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Re: Greatest Pakistani XI

Postby Senor Moto Gadili » Tue Nov 26, 2019 8:55 am

Lightning McQueen wrote:One thing that I find interesting is that S.Waugh, Punter and Clarke all got dropped earlier in their careers, then came back to be more complete cricketers and great captains, same thing happened to Steve Smith.

Except Smith probably fails on the great captain part.
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Re: Greatest Pakistani XI

Postby Lightning McQueen » Tue Nov 26, 2019 9:00 am

Senor Moto Gadili wrote:
Lightning McQueen wrote:One thing that I find interesting is that S.Waugh, Punter and Clarke all got dropped earlier in their careers, then came back to be more complete cricketers and great captains, same thing happened to Steve Smith.

Except Smith probably fails on the great captain part.

Has so far, who knows if he can come back form that? He no doubt played the lesser role but still, just knowing and turning a blind eye to it was enough, spelt the end for Boof.
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Re: Greatest Pakistani XI

Postby Failed Creation » Tue Nov 26, 2019 10:07 am

My South African XI - 1983 to Present:

Smith (c)
G. Kirsten
Amla
Kallis
AB de Villiers (wk)
Cullinan
Pollock
Philander
Steyn
Donald
Adams

Unlucky to miss out: Gibbs, Ntini, Du Plessis, Boucher, Morkel.

Paul Adams gets a gig for team balance, and because at this stage, he's taken the most wickets for a South African spinner.
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