Jack Oatey Medallists

[DOC]

Same. Very enjoyable.

MAL I will ask a Sturt mate of mine about Clarkson and report back any news.

He is unsure if Oatey started it or got onto the idea and developed it.

[robranisgod]

In 1966, Sturt started to impose their authority on the competition. They were the dominant team in the competition only losing two games for the minor round, both to Port. Port and South were considered the only dangers , North finished only a game behind those two clubs and in fact beat Port both times they played and South once but lost to Sturt by 84 points and 57 points. Thus despite making the four comfortably they weren't a threat. Coming to the last minor round game, between South and Port at Alberton, South were a game in front of Port with a minimal percentage advantage. The mathematicians had worked out that Port had to beat South by 23 points. Port won by 28 points in an incredibly spiteful game and one player, South rover, Allan White, ended up in hospital with what was described as a life threatening injury.
South were hot favourites in the First Semi Final, but were badly banged up and North won comfortably. That was the end of Neil Kerley's reign at South and the end of South as a force for a long time. To the surprise of many, Port beat Sturt by a point in the second semi final. Sturt thought that the lack of ruck support for Tony Clarkson was their Achilles heel, so they sent out an SOS to their former ruckman, Malcolm Hill to rejoin the side from Berri where he was running a hotel.
With Malcolm Hill and Tony Clarkson dominating the rucks Sturt thrashed North again, this time by 85 points, in the Preliminary Final to set up a rematch between the long time champion Port and the new challenger, Sturt. Sturt led all day but when the margin was only 17 points at three quarter time, many people expected the traditional Port comeback but it wasn't to be, With Sturt dominating the rucks and around the ball they went onto score a marvellous 56 point victory, their first flag win in 26 years and a new dynasty was born.
Peter Argent chose Malcolm Hill as best man on the ground. Hill had already been part of a drought breaking premiership. He played for Hawthorn in their first ever premiership in 1961 and was chosen amongst their best players. He was recruited to Sturt playing for them in 1963 and 1964. He then moved to Berri but returned to Sturt in final series in 1965,1966, 1968 and 1969. Unlike his co ruckman, the bean pole, Tony Clarkson, Hill was a powerfully built at , 6 foot 2 inch and 15 stone (188 cms and 96 kgs). The younger amongst you might be shocked that ruckmen were often only 188 cms in those days.
Hill was a good overhead mark and a lovely kick, including the stab pass. He fitted the Sturt mould both as a player and a man. He had been educated at Scotch College in Melbourne, the school of luminaries like Jeff Kennett and Andrew Peacock and played for their old scholars team until recruited at the age of 23 to Hawthorn. At Hawthorn his nickname was "Basher" but he was nothing if not scrupulously fair, and his nickname was typical Australian irony of the time. John Kennedy thought he should have been harder given his size but he never shirked an issue and he certainly seemed tough enough when he took on the Port ruckmen and gave them a hiding.
Malcolm Hill still resides in Berri where he is a very famous local identity.

[Wedgie]

In 1996, Sturt started to impose their authority on the competition.

I assume you mean 1969. They weren't imposing much authority in 1996!

[RB]

Port won by 28 points in an incredibly spiteful game and one player, South rover, Allan White, ended up in hospital with what was described as a life threatening injury.

Bob Clayton either hit or collided with him, resulting in a burst spleen to White IIRC.

[Magellan]

In 1996, Sturt started to impose their authority on the competition.

I assume you mean 1969. They weren't imposing much authority in 1996!

1966, I reckon.

[FOURTH ESTATE]

Keep a look out for a big 1960- 70's story to hit this page by Saturday night. "Good Read Guaranteed"

[mal]

JACK OATEY V FOS WILLIAMS
Two of the very very greatest coaches off all time in the SANFL
These 2 coached against each other over 3 decades
The incredible Jack coached over 5 decades

JACK OATEY
1945-1956 NW
1957-1960 WA
1962-1982 ST

FOS WILLIAMS
1950-1958 PA
1960...........SA
1962-1973 PA
1974-1978 WA

Hopefully Ive compiled all the finals games they met head to head

1952 PRELIM
PA 6-14
NW 8-13

1955 2ND SEMI
PA 12-12
NW 15-18

1955 GF
PA 15-11
NW 5-8

Oatey ended up 2-1 NW V PA
Williams won the one that counted the 55 GF
Quite a turnaround NW won the 2nd semi by 24 points and lost the GF by 63 points - a 87 point differential
In 1956 Jack Oatey acrimoniously ended his tenure with NW and went on to coach WA in 1957

1957 2ND SEMI
PA 9-18
WA 3-5

1958 GF
WA 14-8
PA 14-10

Oatey 0-2 WA V PA
5 times they met in the 1950s , with Oatey marginally down 2-3
Williams won both grand finals and had the bragging rights


1965 GF
PA 12-8
ST 12-5

1966 2ND SEMI
ST 13-9
PA 13-10

1966 GF
PA 8-8
ST 16-16

1967 GF
ST 13-10
PA 10-17

1968 2ND SEMI
ST 15-15
PA 13-14

1968 GF
ST 12-18
PA 9-9

1970 2ND SEMI
PA 11-13
ST 17-12

Oatey 5-2 ST V PA in the 1960s + 1970
Oatey winning 3-1 in Grand finals
From the 1966 GF onwards St dominated, it was about styles
PA determined physical style
ST skillful approach and a thing called handball


All Finals
12 Finals
7 Oatey
5 Williams

All Grand Finals
6 Grand Finals
3 Oatey
3 Williams

They had some great battles in the coaching box

[FOURTH ESTATE]

When you look at the premiership table in 1965 you can see how far former strong clubs in West Adelaide & West Torrens were off the pace. Both finished 4-16 in 9th & 8th place and both with a percentage of less than 44%. One must have wondered was it a good idea to bring both Woodville & Central into the comp,

Central's effort to win 8 games was fantastic but they could not match that total again for another 6 years until the made the finals 1971. Their best effort was 7 wins in 1970. Woodville on the other hand were a true basket case.

In their first 10 years 1964 - 1973 they never rose higher than 7th in 1969 when they went 8-12 which was their best season which even included a win over Sturt in round 19?

In all they finished

10th - 3 times
9th - 3 times
8th - 3 times
7th - once

Their playing record was 46 wins - 154 losses - 3 draws from 203 games winning percentage of 22.66%

14 times they lost by over 100 pts with Port Adelaide doing it 6 times and Glenelg 3 times and their biggest losing margin being 170 pts in 1971 against Glenelg at Glenelg Oval.

Glenelg 32.21 (213) def Woodville 6.7 (43)

[robranisgod]

When you look at the premiership table in 1965 you can see how far former strong clubs in West Adelaide & West Torrens were off the pace. Both finished 4-16 in 9th & 8th place and both with a percentage of less than 44%. One must have wondered was it a good idea to bring both Woodville & Central into the comp,

I don't think that bringing Woodville and Central into the competition had much to do with West and Torrens fall from grace in 1965. Both sides were torn apart by infighting. West's problems in the 1960s started when they sacked Neil Kerley as coach after winning a flag and then being runner up in 1961 and 1962. Remarkably Kerley stayed at West as a player in 1963 but then left to go to South, Ken Eustice left to go to captain coach Central District, Don Roach left to play at Hawthorn, Jeff Bray went to South Melbourne, and other premiership stars, Magarey Medallist Ron Benton, Johnny Ryan, Frank Hogan, Paul Garnett and Trevor Reu all left the club. Other than Reu, Kerley's sacking was at least a major contributing factor to all of the other stars leaving. If not for two absolute stars in Robert Day and Rodney Pope coming through one wonders if West would have even finished above Woodville in 1965.
I think there is a Ph.D. for someone smarter than me (cue Mal) in the demise of West Torrens. At the start of the decade West Torrens were one of the richest, if not the richest clubs in Australia. Their major benefactor was Ossie O'Grady, a former player and it is not unfair to say that he was the Allan Bond of the day. Under O'Grady's presidency, West Torrens were able to recruit triple Brownlow Medallist and Essendon premiership coach, Dick Reynolds to coach the team, they recruited young Essendon star, Bob Shearman, who had been best player for the "Dons" as they were then known, in the 1959 Grand Final, they outbid Carlton for young Wagga Wagga star, Geoff Kingston and outbid North Melbourne for then Hamilton, Victoria star, Tracey Braidwood. They also lured Neil Hawke back from Western Australia and after a long stand off from Port they managed to get a clearance for Hawke,. They helped get Lindsay Head the leasehold of the Cross Keys Hotel and Bob Shearman the leasehold of the Waverley Hotel.
Then there was the 1961 Credit Squeeze and Ossie O'Grady's company, Reid Murray, collapsed, one of the biggest if not the biggest corporate collapses in history. It was purported to be worth 66,000,000 pounds at the time which I think equates to over $2 billion in today's money. Not only did Ossie lose his fortune, but so did a lot of other West Torrens backers. Ossie remained as President but was challenged by Geoff Hallett of Hallett's bricks at the end of 1964. Shearman, in particular, backed O'Grady who won but then Shearman left the club days later. Torrens struggled for money for the next 25 years until their merger.

For the train spotters amongst you I found this article on Trove :

https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/105829873

From a non football point of you, it was also the beginning of the demise of South Australia. In the early 1960s, I have read that Adelaide was the fast growing capital in Australia, impossible to believe now. Certainly there have been other factors contributing to our lack of population growth since, but Reid Murray's collapse was the initial catalyst that slowed South Australia's progress.

[Magellan]

From a non football point of you, it was also the beginning of the demise South Australia. In the early 1960s, I have read that Adelaide was the fast growing capital in Australia, impossible to believe now. Certainly there have been other factors contributing to our lack of population growth since, but Reid Murray's collapse was the initial catalyst that slowed South Australia's progress.

Also around the same time the ill-fated MATS (Metropolitan Adelaide Transport Study) plan was proposed, which would've filled suburban Adelaide with highways and overpasses resembling something out of Los Angeles.

[RB]

I think there is a Ph.D. for someone smarter than me (cue Mal) in the demise of West Torrens. At the start of the decade West Torrens were one of the richest, if not the richest clubs in Australia. Their major benefactor was Ossie O'Grady, a former player and it is not unfair to say that he was the Allan Bond of the day. Under O'Grady's presidency, West Torrens were able to recruit triple Brownlow Medallist and Essendon premiership coach, Dick Reynolds to coach the team, they recruited young Essendon star, Bob Shearman, who had been best player for the "Dons" as they were then known, in the 1959 Grand Final, they outbid Carlton for young Wagga Wagga star, Geoff Kingston and outbid North Melbourne for then Hamilton, Victoria star, Tracey Braidwood. They also lured Neil Hawke back from Western Australia and after a long stand off from Port they managed to get a clearance for Hawke,. They helped get Lindsay Head the leasehold of the Cross Keys Hotel and Bob Shearman the leasehold of the Waverley Hotel.
Then there was the 1961 Credit Squeeze and Ossie O'Grady's company, Reid Murray, collapsed, one of the biggest if not the biggest corporate collapses in history. It was purported to be worth 66,000,000 pounds at the time which I think equates to over $2 billion in today's money. Not only did Ossie lose his fortune, but so did a lot of other West Torrens backers. Ossie remained as President but was challenged by Geoff Hallett of Hallett's bricks at the end of 1964. Shearman, in particular, backed O'Grady who won but then Shearman left the club days later. Torrens struggled for money for the next 25 years until their merger.

Without going into too much detail I think there were several factors at play in Torrens' decline from the 60s onwards:
1. Their sugar daddy running out of money as RIG has mentioned
2. Declining on-field performances leading to more declining on-field performances. Despite having a number of top players in the second half of the 50s and the 60s, and finishing top in '63, people forget the Torrens never won a final after 1954. Maybe depth was the problem. But the losing culture had started to set in before the overall financial decline of the club. Although Torrens attracted massive crowds in the 60s when they were doing well, the lack of finals success surely had an impact on supporter numbers and in turn finances. In the mid-50s they possibly had more supporters than any club except Norwood and Port. Compare the number of finals Port and Norwood won over the next say 20 years to Torrens (zero).
3. Proportionately fewer Anglo-Australians in the West Torrens city area due to migration, making the player (and supporter) base a little thinner or at least meaning the club needed to work a bit harder to develop players. A slight reduction in the zone in '64 wouldn't have helped. Also, it happened later, but giving the north eastern suburbs zone to Norwood, just when it was starting to pay dividends, didn't help either.

[robranisgod]

I think there is a Ph.D. for someone smarter than me (cue Mal) in the demise of West Torrens. At the start of the decade West Torrens were one of the richest, if not the richest clubs in Australia. Their major benefactor was Ossie O'Grady, a former player and it is not unfair to say that he was the Allan Bond of the day. Under O'Grady's presidency, West Torrens were able to recruit triple Brownlow Medallist and Essendon premiership coach, Dick Reynolds to coach the team, they recruited young Essendon star, Bob Shearman, who had been best player for the "Dons" as they were then known, in the 1959 Grand Final, they outbid Carlton for young Wagga Wagga star, Geoff Kingston and outbid North Melbourne for then Hamilton, Victoria star, Tracey Braidwood. They also lured Neil Hawke back from Western Australia and after a long stand off from Port they managed to get a clearance for Hawke,. They helped get Lindsay Head the leasehold of the Cross Keys Hotel and Bob Shearman the leasehold of the Waverley Hotel.
Then there was the 1961 Credit Squeeze and Ossie O'Grady's company, Reid Murray, collapsed, one of the biggest if not the biggest corporate collapses in history. It was purported to be worth 66,000,000 pounds at the time which I think equates to over $2 billion in today's money. Not only did Ossie lose his fortune, but so did a lot of other West Torrens backers. Ossie remained as President but was challenged by Geoff Hallett of Hallett's bricks at the end of 1964. Shearman, in particular, backed O'Grady who won but then Shearman left the club days later. Torrens struggled for money for the next 25 years until their merger.

Although Torrens attracted massive crowds in the 60s when they were doing well, the lack of finals success surely had an impact on supporter numbers and in turn finances. In the mid-50s they possibly had more supporters than any club except Norwood and Port. Compare the number of finals Port and Norwood won over the next say 20 years to Torrens (zero).
3. Proportionately fewer Anglo-Australians in the West Torrens city area due to migration, making the player (and supporter) base a little thinner or at least meaning the club needed to work a bit harder to develop players. A slight reduction in the zone in '64 wouldn't have helped. Also, it happened later, but giving the north eastern suburbs zone to Norwood, just when it was starting to pay dividends, didn't help either.

Excellent points. In 1961 Torrens attracted the highest average home and away crowds and in a year that they didn't make the four, 1959 they had crowds of over 10,000 people in 13 of the 18 games. The only two games that didn't attract a good crowd were the two games against South.

Torrensville, Thebarton, Hindmarsh, Brompton and Croydon had been the heart of the West Torrens area, and of course, that is where a large amount of the post World War 2 immigrants settled, particularly the Greeks. I came from what is now called Renown Park but was then part of Croydon and players and recently retired past players who lived within one mile of me in the 1960s included Jimmy Slaven, Ron Ashby, Johnny Graham, Glenn Pill, Bob Gibson, Wayne Jackson, Bob WIldy and Russell Virgo. By the early 1970s Milan Faletic, Neville Mead and Terry Homan are the only players I can think of to have come from the former heartland
I never was sure whether giving Torrens the North East was a good move in the first place. They had a stupid rule whereby clubs could purchase a junior from another club for $2,000. Norwood were already poaching Torrens juniors, but when they poached David Payne from North, North woke up to the ruse and paid $2,000 each to Torrens for 17 juniors. Amongst these juniors were Andrew and Darren Jarman and lesser players like Roger Carlaw, who played in a premiership. Sure there were some who didn't make it, but you would have to say that North got some bargains.
Benny Harris went to Port from the North East area and Peter Krieg to Central District.
In about 1982 I heard Johnny Graham go on KGs program and plaintively pleaded with the league to do something about Torrens losing players from their North East zone, but the horse had bolted. In 1983 the league in their wisdom gave the area to Norwood.
We have digressed but it certainly is an interesting, and to me, mostly forgotten part of the SANFL history.

[mal]

1966 GRAND FINAL
PA V ST

PA...3-2...5-2.,..7-7.....8-8
ST...3-2...7-7...9-12..16-16

This is what led up to that Grand Final in previous seasons

1963
ST...2-2...5-7...7-8...11-12
PA...2-1...4-4...8-6...11-9

PA... 4-3..5-8...7-10...11-15
ST...2-0...2-0....3-4......5-6

PA...6-2...8-2...12-2...14-6
ST...1-2....4-6....7-7.....9-11

1964
ST...4-1...7-3...7-4......11-8
PA...3-5..6-9..13-10..16-11

PA ...6-4...8-7...13-10...15-13
ST...1-1....2-4.....4-6.......8-9

1965
ST ...4-1...4-2.....11-5....14-5
PA...5-8...8-12..11-13..13-14

PA ...3-3...6-7...7-10...10-13
ST....1-4...3-5....5-8......9-12

GF
PA ...3-3...6-3...11-7...12-8
ST....2-1...6-2.....7-2....12.5

1966
PA...4-7...6-10...7-13...12-15
ST...2-1...4-14...6-15....11-17

ST...2-1....5-4.....6-4....9-13
PA....6-2...9-4...12-7...13-8

PA...3-1....7-1...7-2....11-4
ST...4-4.....4-7..6-15...9-18

2ND SEMI
ST...1-3...7-5...11-8...13-9
PA...1-3....4-6..10-6...13-10

From 1963 -1966 PA had won 9 matches in a row against ST
It has been said to me by more than one historian that ST had the belief that they could win Grand Finals after the barnstorming finish in the 1965 close loss
The opinions vindicated by the fact that ST indeed went on to win the 1966 GF V PA by a massive 56 points
I have to value those opinions as some of the historians watched that era of football, I didnt

Without being there , I can only offer statistical facts
Was there also a defining match the PA V ST Match round 13 , 1966, Alberton Oval ?
ST won that game 9-18 to 11-4 and broke that sequence of 9 PA wins in succession

This from a prominent SANFL historian of the times, told to me very recently- something like this :
" I was at the game , Keith Chessell took a chest mark , about 40-45m out, near the Norman Williams scoreboard.
Doc kicked a screw punt, it wobbled and went through for a goal and ST won after the siren."

The next time the two great clubs met was the Second Semi
PA won again by 1 point, with PA winning the last qtr
Then they met in the 1966 Grand Final

Of interest is just how often ST outscored PA in the last quarters during the PA 9 match winning sequence
LAST QUARTERS
ST won 6
2 were equal
PA won 1
The PA win was the first of the 9 wins, in the next 8 wins PA never outscored ST in last quarters
Please note I have not allowed for any wind advantage

The other stat was in the Keith Chessell after siren win
ST won but PA outscored the blues but this time PA won the last qtr !

So I can only deduce one thing from those stats and paint a picture, without knowing the artist
PA started well in the 9 wins as they were a hard at it team, and could pressure ST , and set up leads ?
ST would finish better, perhaps as the games wore on because of their exceptional skill level ?

Whatever the reasons
The Alberton win after the siren may be inconclusive as a turning point, as PA won the Second Semi Final
I tend to agree with the experts, the 1965 ST GF effort was most significant turning point.
Thats because the next time the teams met in a GF ST won the match

[robranisgod]

And so to 1967. The biggest news of the summer was that Neil Kerley had left South to coach Glenelg. It was a move that changed both clubs fortunes, some would say to this day. South after 3 years of being very competitive slipped back into mediocrity and within 3 years had finished bottom and we all know that they still haven't won a flag since 1964. Glenelg on the other hand became competitive and despite many arguing that they have under achieved since Kerley took over, have at least won 4 flags and had a presence for much of the last 50 years. There was little mention in the media of a recruit to North Adelaide from Whyalla who was about to take the league by storm.
North had finished third in 1966 but were way off the pace set by Sturt. They met in the first game of 1967 at Unley Oval and Barrie Robran played a debut game, the like of which had rarely been seen. He took all of the Sturt stars to the cleaners, so much so that at half time All Australian Rick Schoff said to his captain John Halbert, who the f*ck is number 10. North also debuted Dennis Sachse and Terry von Bertouch, absolute stars and they ended up minor premier. Down at Glenelg, under Neil Kerley, they won their first 4 games after finishing bottom the year before and not to be outdone, they debuted five absolute stars in Peter Marker, Wayne Phillis, Rex Voigt, Kerry Hamilton and late in the season, Graham Cornes. Peter Marker would have been rookie of the year in any normal year, but at best was third behind Barrie Robran and Dennis Sachse, both of whom represented SA against Victoria after just 7 league games. Sturt despite a few hiccups finished second at the end of the Minor Round and Port as always were very competitive.
Port were then much too experienced for the young Glenelg side in the first semi final and after losing to North twice in the Minor Round, Sturt turned the clock back 12 months and thrashed North in the Second Semi Final. In a low scoring game, many would say that Port were lucky to beat North in the Preliminary Final but others would argue that it was Port's toughness that saw them through.
The Grand Final was a topsy turvy affair. It was the brilliance of Sturt versus the hardness of Port. Sturt jumped Port to lead by 13 points at quarter time but then Port scored 6 goals to lead by 9 points at half time. Port still led by 6 points at three quarter time and had chances to maybe even seal the game midway through the last quarter when a very experienced Port and interstate player missed two relatively easy set shots from within about 30 yards. On both occasions the Port player chose to kick a drop kick, which although still fashionable as a kick was rarely used for a set shot to goal. Sturt scored three late goals to run out winners by 11 points.
Peter Argent's choice of best man on the ground was Sturt's champion back pocket of the time, Brenton Adcock. Adcock had already been an All Australian in 1966. He had begun his league career as a wingman in 1962 but it was when he was moved to the back pocket that he found his niche. He was nuggetty and robust, but with the usual Sturt skills of the time. He was a great disposer of the ball who represented the State on 20 occasions. I would go so far as to say that modern day football followers don't realise how good Adcock was. He played in 6 Sturt premierships, was named back pocket in Sturt's Team of The Century and was an inaugural member of the SANFL Hall of Fame.
In the list compiled by Mike Coward and Geoff Kingston to which I often refer, Adcock was ranked the 14th best player of the first century of SA football. When you consider that contemporaries like Paul Bagshaw and Don Lindner were ranked 29 and 30 in that list, it gives an idea as to the esteem in which he was held.

[DOC]

Another great post.

Not a criticism but perhaps a typo regarding " All Australian Rick Schoff said to his captain Rick Schoff"

[JK]

Without doubt this is the best sub-forum on this site .. RIG, Mal, Doc etc, keep sharing lads, love reading all this stuff regardless of which clubs it involves, so cheers to you all

[mal]

1965 GF
PA 12-8
ST 12-5

1966 GF
ST 16-16
PA 8-8

1965
12 PA GOALS
6 ST GOALS
6 MALcolm JONES GOALS

1966
8 ST GOALS
8 MALcolm JONES GOALS
8 PA GOALS

ST scored 28 goals in total for the 2 GFs
MALcolm Jones scored 14 of those 28 goals

I wonder how close MALcolm Hill was in being BOG in those 2 finals ?

According to Author John Devaney :
MALcolm Jones scored 205 SANFL goals in 58 games
Jack Oatey regarded MALcolm Jones as the best full forward he coached during his 21 seasons at Sturt
MALcom Jones career ended when he broke a leg on his interstate debut in 1968 at the MCG

MALcolm Jones must have been one heck of a forward

[DOC]

Yes MAL, Oatey rated him ahead of Malcolm Greenslade (215 games, 607 goals) and Ken Whelan (126 games, 441 goals).

A broken leg in his State debut in 1968 against Victoria finished his league career.

Prior to playing at Sturt he played at University so may have returned there?

How did Sturt recruit him? They didn't. He turned up at training one night and asked to train with them.

[mal]

DOC
Who would you have picked as Sturts best player in the 1965 Grand Final ?
DOC clarkson or MAL jones ...

[robranisgod]

Yes MAL, Oatey rated him ahead of Malcolm Greenslade (215 games, 607 goals) and Ken Whelan (126 games, 441 goals).

A broken leg in his State debut in 1968 against Victoria finished his league career.

Prior to playing at Sturt he played at University so may have returned there?

How did Sturt recruit him? They didn't. He turned up at training one night and asked to train with them.

The nickname "Emmy" came about because incredibly Sturt had two players named Malcolm Jones. One was a big ruckman M.S. Jones who had the nickname of "Jeep" Jones and M.E. Jones. Jeep Jones actually played in the 1965 Grand Final as well as M.E. Jones