Australian International Summer 2020/21

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Re: Australian International Summer 2020/21

Postby gadj1976 » Tue Jan 19, 2021 8:52 pm

whufc wrote:Was the India’s bowling injury crisis a blessing in disguise.

We played the same 4 all series and given the covid crisis potentially weren’t a peak fitness. We were out on our feet on the last day of each test.

Did their fresher bowlers play a role?


Yeh probably, but I do wonder if we suffered because there were no shield games to select in form players?
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Re: Australian International Summer 2020/21

Postby The Dark Knight » Tue Jan 19, 2021 9:00 pm

northerner wrote:Nathan Lyon is the most ordinary average player to have played 100 Tests. Seriously... he has a consistent stock ball, and then...?

So many times we fail to bowl teams out in 4th innings on 5th days. When spinners should be licking their lips, Lyon has nothing to offer.

100 tests and 400 wkts at 31 ave. That pans out to an average of 2 for 62 per innings. Not gunna win many matches with that.
Played 100 tests and has taken more test wickets than anyone since he made his debut in 2011.
I can completely understand people's frustrations with Lyon and his bowling average and strike rate arent anything super but he's easily the best we got and have had since Stuart MacGill retired and there has been really no other spinner in domestic cricket that's looked like taking his spot as our number 1 spinner.
This summer has been his worst since 14/15.
Looking at his 4th innings bowling, his average, strike rate and RPO are all slightly better than his overall career numbers but has less wickets than in the other 3 innings so I can understand why people question why he can't spin us to victory in the forth innings.
I've just come to really appreciate what Lyon has done for Australia over the last 10 years and accepted that's he's the best we have, whether that be for better or for worse, depending on what side of the fence you sit on.Image
Last edited by The Dark Knight on Tue Jan 19, 2021 10:10 pm, edited 6 times in total.
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Re: Australian International Summer 2020/21

Postby The Dark Knight » Tue Jan 19, 2021 9:05 pm

Senor Moto Gadili wrote:
The Dark Knight wrote:
whufc wrote:What’s Starcs averages pre and post sandpapergate
Before and up to 24/3/2018- 43 matches, 182 wickets @ 28.17, SR of 49.3 and an Economy of 3.42
On and after 24/3/2018- 18 matches, 73 wickets @26.06, SR of 49.1 and an Economy of 3.18

Went fishing .... caught nothing
Haha! At least he asked rather than making some brash statement with no evidence. ESPN Cricinfo Statsguru is a wealth of information.
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Re: Australian International Summer 2020/21

Postby RB » Tue Jan 19, 2021 9:15 pm

Senor Moto Gadili wrote:
The Dark Knight wrote:
whufc wrote:What’s Starcs averages pre and post sandpapergate
Before and up to 24/3/2018- 43 matches, 182 wickets @ 28.17, SR of 49.3 and an Economy of 3.42
On and after 24/3/2018- 18 matches, 73 wickets @26.06, SR of 49.1 and an Economy of 3.18

Went fishing .... caught nothing
I fell victim to something similar yesterday!

TDK certainly knows his fast bowlers.
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Re: Australian International Summer 2020/21

Postby DOC » Tue Jan 19, 2021 9:28 pm

gadj1976 wrote:
whufc wrote:Was the India’s bowling injury crisis a blessing in disguise.

We played the same 4 all series and given the covid crisis potentially weren’t a peak fitness. We were out on our feet on the last day of each test.

Did their fresher bowlers play a role?


Yeh probably, but I do wonder if we suffered because there were no shield games to select in form players?


Absolutely
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Re: Australian International Summer 2020/21

Postby Jim05 » Tue Jan 19, 2021 9:44 pm

whufc wrote:Was the India’s bowling injury crisis a blessing in disguise.

We played the same 4 all series and given the covid crisis potentially weren’t a peak fitness. We were out on our feet on the last day of each test.

Did their fresher bowlers play a role?
Was a great chance to play Swepson at his home ground. Push Green up to 5 and get rid of Wade.
I commented that Starc looked shot in Sydney and I would have dropped him too
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Re: Australian International Summer 2020/21

Postby The Dark Knight » Tue Jan 19, 2021 10:10 pm

The Dark Knight wrote:
northerner wrote:Nathan Lyon is the most ordinary average player to have played 100 Tests. Seriously... he has a consistent stock ball, and then...?

So many times we fail to bowl teams out in 4th innings on 5th days. When spinners should be licking their lips, Lyon has nothing to offer.

100 tests and 400 wkts at 31 ave. That pans out to an average of 2 for 62 per innings. Not gunna win many matches with that.
Played 100 tests and has taken more test wickets than anyone since he made his debut in 2011.
I can completely understand people's frustrations with Lyon and his bowling average and strike rate arent anything super but he's easily the best we got and have had since Stuart MacGill retired and there has been really no other spinner in domestic cricket that's looked like taking his spot as our number 1 spinner.
This summer has been his worst since 14/15.
Looking at his 4th innings bowling, his average, strike rate and RPO are all slightly better than his overall career numbers but has less wickets than in the other 3 innings so I can understand why people question why he can't spin us to victory in the forth innings.
I've just come to really appreciate what Lyon has done for Australia over the last 10 years and accepted that's he's the best we have, whether that be for better or for worse, depending on what side of the fence you sit on.Image
.Image
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Re: Australian International Summer 2020/21

Postby Gozu » Tue Jan 19, 2021 10:40 pm

I'm old enough to remember when we were good at cricket.

Sack JL

FFS!
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Re: Australian International Summer 2020/21

Postby The Dark Knight » Tue Jan 19, 2021 11:11 pm

whufc wrote:
Senor Moto Gadili wrote:
The Dark Knight wrote:
whufc wrote:What’s Starcs averages pre and post sandpapergate
Before and up to 24/3/2018- 43 matches, 182 wickets @ 28.17, SR of 49.3 and an Economy of 3.42
On and after 24/3/2018- 18 matches, 73 wickets @26.06, SR of 49.1 and an Economy of 3.18

Went fishing .... caught nothing


Nah was genuinely interested. I felt he had been less effective since we haven’t seen much reverse in recent times.

I’m presuming he had a very good series against the Pakistanis
Last summer? Yes he did, 14 wickets @17 at a SR of 32.4 and Economy of 3.14.
Took 15 wickets @17.86 at a SR of 35.9 and Economy of 2.98 against New Zealand aswell.
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Re: Australian International Summer 2020/21

Postby Lightning McQueen » Wed Jan 20, 2021 8:23 am

I much prefer here than reading the drivel on facebook where it's full of sooks complaining about India bending rules etc.

They beat us, they played a better game and had more grit, Pant was amazing and I wouldn't have begrudged him being player of the series, they were awesome against arguably the best attack in the world.

Player of the series should be renamed to "MVP", Cummins was the best player over the course of the series but I think the winner should come from the winning team, the player that impacted most on the result, that was Pant for mine.

Plenty of things we could've done in hindsight, CA thought they'd stick with Starc, they couldn't really deny Lyon his spot, he's earnt enough credits to persevere, the Wade vs Head thing is the only other thing they could've toyed with.

Personally I would've put Wade back up to open and brought Head back in, I would've played Pattinson ahead of Starc if fit.

Moving forward, Green looks like a stayer and I'd love for us to have another batsman with decent spin abilities, as said on here before Lyon probably under achieved as he was bowling against India, hopefully he bounces back.

The team of the series is a bit bleak up top when you have to choose between Rohit or Wade for a gig, here's mine:

Gill
Rohit
Labba
Pujara
Smith
Rahane
Pant
Jadeja
Cummins
Hazlewood
Siraj
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Re: Australian International Summer 2020/21

Postby The Bedge » Wed Jan 20, 2021 8:28 am

Seriously woken up in a foul mood.. so disappointed in Australian cricket.

None the less, plenty has been asked of the sides - I wonder, if there was no covid and they didn’t need to be in a bubble, would Australia have potentially drafted in other players? Not sure they had a lot of options through the series because they stuck far with pretty much the same squad.. and Pattinson injured hurt bowling stocks.
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Re: Australian International Summer 2020/21

Postby Booney » Wed Jan 20, 2021 8:37 am

The Bedge wrote:Seriously woken up in a foul mood.. so disappointed in Australian cricket.

None the less, plenty has been asked of the sides - I wonder, if there was no covid and they didn’t need to be in a bubble, would Australia have potentially drafted in other players? Not sure they had a lot of options through the series because they stuck far with pretty much the same squad.. and Pattinson injured hurt bowling stocks.


On the back of their BBL form?
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Re: Australian International Summer 2020/21

Postby Senor Moto Gadili » Wed Jan 20, 2021 8:44 am

I see India acknowledged Nathan Lyon's 100th Test by presenting him with a shirt signed by the Indian players. Class. Not much has been said on here about Ravi Shastri, but he along with Virat Kholi has been a massive driving force behind India's success. Compare the leadership .... Ravi Shastri and Virat Kholi (Rahane) v Justin Langer and Tim Paine.
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Re: Australian International Summer 2020/21

Postby Corona Man » Wed Jan 20, 2021 8:46 am

The Bedge wrote:Seriously woken up in a foul mood.. so disappointed in Australian cricket.

None the less, plenty has been asked of the sides - I wonder, if there was no covid and they didn’t need to be in a bubble, would Australia have potentially drafted in other players? Not sure they had a lot of options through the series because they stuck far with pretty much the same squad.. and Pattinson injured hurt bowling stocks.

Time to move on.

As stated earlier, we were beaten by a better team, full credit to them.

Now, I hope we can look beyond Warner, Wade, Paine et al, and start building a team to win back (I know we hold them) the Ashes.

What does that team look like?

Puckovski
??
Lab Rat
Smith (c)
Green
??
Carey - I guess
Cummins
Pattinson
Lyon
Hazelhoff

Coach - ??

Can we trust Smith back in the top job? I bet if he had his time over, and he caught a wiff of some ball tampering talk, in the rooms - he would say "we won't be doing that lads" and just shut it down. If & buts I know, and how different would the team look, and perform if only Smudge had stood up back in Saffers a few years ago?
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Re: Australian International Summer 2020/21

Postby Lightning McQueen » Wed Jan 20, 2021 8:52 am

The Bedge wrote:Seriously woken up in a foul mood.. so disappointed in Australian cricket.

None the less, plenty has been asked of the sides - I wonder, if there was no covid and they didn’t need to be in a bubble, would Australia have potentially drafted in other players? Not sure they had a lot of options through the series because they stuck far with pretty much the same squad.. and Pattinson injured hurt bowling stocks.


Who could they have drafted in from outside the squad?

I think our "squad" was on the money, game plans and attitude cost us, could've played Swepson in Sydney.

I'm not sure what we can change going forward, I'm not sold on Harris being up to it, Wade should be moved on but the keeper/captain issue is huge, Paine is no longer the man for the job.
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Re: Australian International Summer 2020/21

Postby Lightning McQueen » Wed Jan 20, 2021 8:53 am

Senor Moto Gadili wrote:I see India acknowledged Nathan Lyon's 100th Test by presenting him with a shirt signed by the Indian players. Class. Not much has been said on here about Ravi Shastri, but he along with Virat Kholi has been a massive driving force behind India's success. Compare the leadership .... Ravi Shastri and Virat Kholi (Rahane) v Justin Langer and Tim Paine.

You just gotta love the way they go about things, they just play the game.
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Re: Australian International Summer 2020/21

Postby Lightning McQueen » Wed Jan 20, 2021 9:06 am

Corona Man wrote:[
Time to move on.

As stated earlier, we were beaten by a better team, full credit to them.

Now, I hope we can look beyond Warner, Wade, Paine et al, and start building a team to win back (I know we hold them) the Ashes.

What does that team look like?

Puckovski
??
Lab Rat
Smith (c)
Green
??
Carey - I guess
Cummins
Pattinson
Lyon
Hazelhoff

Coach - ??

Can we trust Smith back in the top job? I bet if he had his time over, and he caught a wiff of some ball tampering talk, in the rooms - he would say "we won't be doing that lads" and just shut it down. If & buts I know, and how different would the team look, and perform if only Smudge had stood up back in Saffers a few years ago?


Pattinson is coming up 31, if we're looking beyond Warner then I'm guessing he wont be around.

Carey is a frustrating one, it's there for him to grab, he just can't quite reach it firmly.

I think Smith captaining again would be a blight on CA's integrity.

Head must still be looked at, he's been dropped, Steve Waugh, Ponting, Clarke and Smith were all dropped at some stage and came back better cricketers, Head had to be dropped to make him have a good hard look at himself, he'll come back better for it.

If we're looking at youth to fill the batting spots, Patterson hasn't had a great shield season so far, we've probably only got McDermott, Whiteman and Inglis as possible choices, any other batting options are already in the squad or they're too old.
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Re: Australian International Summer 2020/21

Postby Corona Man » Wed Jan 20, 2021 9:16 am

Pattinson 31 - forgot how old he is..... Riley Meredith, next in line of the younger quicks?

Head - yep I agree. Hope he can re-invent himself as the others did.

As for Smith Captain, not sure who else there is, and I am not in favour of bowling captains.

Coach is a bigger issue as anything........ Punter maybe?
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Re: Australian International Summer 2020/21

Postby Lightning McQueen » Wed Jan 20, 2021 9:22 am

Corona Man wrote:Pattinson 31 - forgot how old he is..... Riley Meredith, next in line of the younger quicks?

Head - yep I agree. Hope he can re-invent himself as the others did.

As for Smith Captain, not sure who else there is, and I am not in favour of bowling captains.

Coach is a bigger issue as anything........ Punter maybe?


I agree with everything you have said there, even the Smith part, he is the obvious choice but I don't think we can go down that path again unfortunately.

Punter is a thinker, a real tactician, you hear it when he commentates, it's like he's always the fielding side's captain while he's on the mic.
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Re: Australian International Summer 2020/21

Postby The Bedge » Wed Jan 20, 2021 9:29 am

Lightning McQueen wrote:Who could they have drafted in from outside the squad?.

Could've done worse than go back to the future and play S Marsh as the opener.

Jhye Richardson or Riley Merideth look good with the ball as quicks, Swepson with better variety than Lyon, Ben McDermott hit a 100 in the tour match.

Agree we don't appear to have a lot at the moment, but if you change nothing then nothing changes.

Interesting looking over the SS stats - Starc & Lyon only took 9 wickets earlier this year - both equal 10th.. and Wade made 299 runs - so did Australia give themselves the best opportunity and pick the best in form squad to begin with?
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