Australian International Summer (The Ashes) 2021/22

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Re: Australian International Summer (The Ashes) 2021/22

Postby The Dark Knight » Fri Oct 15, 2021 12:14 pm

Lightning McQueen wrote:
Eagles2014 wrote:
Rik E Boy wrote:Puc sconned again. About ten times now. Can't play the short one so career probably over.

regards,

REB


Agree. Anderson, Broad and any other pace bowler for that matter will just bounce him and he is history. Such a shame. Terrible he has not been coached better in this area of his game when the rest is so good :shock:


Could be because you aren't allowed to bowl bouncers in junior cricket any more like we could yesteryear.

Under 14's 1988, I was walking past Daryl Harper and he whispers "chuck in a short one"

I bowled the perfect bouncer and as I walked to my mark and he whispers "Back it up with another"

I did and he smiled as I strode past him and said "one more".

The next ball he says "A yorker now will clean him up"

It did.

The following week we had a replacement umpire and he was umpiring the shield game on TV at AO.

Brag ;)
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Re: Australian International Summer (The Ashes) 2021/22

Postby Lightning McQueen » Fri Oct 15, 2021 12:22 pm

The Dark Knight wrote:
Lightning McQueen wrote:
Eagles2014 wrote:
Rik E Boy wrote:Puc sconned again. About ten times now. Can't play the short one so career probably over.

regards,

REB


Agree. Anderson, Broad and any other pace bowler for that matter will just bounce him and he is history. Such a shame. Terrible he has not been coached better in this area of his game when the rest is so good :shock:


Could be because you aren't allowed to bowl bouncers in junior cricket any more like we could yesteryear.

Under 14's 1988, I was walking past Daryl Harper and he whispers "chuck in a short one"

I bowled the perfect bouncer and as I walked to my mark and he whispers "Back it up with another"

I did and he smiled as I strode past him and said "one more".

The next ball he says "A yorker now will clean him up"

It did.

The following week we had a replacement umpire and he was umpiring the shield game on TV at AO.

Brag ;)


Dropping the big names.

He was a genuine top bloke, had his pocket full of barley sugars for the bowler.

It was one of my most memorable games, it was against Port Adelaide and I sooked all afternoon because of where I was batting and then managed to steal it when I only had 7 balls remaining for the match.
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Re: Australian International Summer (The Ashes) 2021/22

Postby Lightning McQueen » Fri Oct 15, 2021 2:39 pm

Bombers4EVA wrote:
The Dark Knight wrote:
Bombers4EVA wrote:Id have Jye Richardson in the mix somewhere. Especially before Starc.

And still unsure about Travis Head in the big games. Think his technique needs to be worked on in the red ball format on a international level. And is too inconsistent.

Given Richardson hasn't played Shield cricket for WA in almost two years and recently suffering an abdominal strain during training before WA's first Shield match against SA it's hard to see him being in contention for Australia's Ashes squad. He is expected to play in WA's next Shield match against Tasmania starting Sunday.

I'd love to see him back for Australia as soon as possible but surely he'd be focusing on getting his body right and playing games for WA first, I did read a quote of his saying he's not even thinking about the Ashes at this stage.

And about Travis Head in big games, what do you classify as a 'big game'? Surely every test match a cricketer plays for their country is a 'big game'? Surely the only way he works on his technique at international level and becoming more consistent is by playing test cricket, that's pretty obvious I would of thought so if you're so unsure about Head then who are you picking instead of him? He is clearly the best option at number 5 for Australia and certainly proved that point in Shield last season by making the second most runs in the competition (behind Cameron Green) and then starting with an century in SA's first game of this Shield season.

I wasn't aware of Richardson's injury so yeah he will need to get better and get some Sheffield Shield matches into him before he is in consideration to be picked.
Well I reckon they should introduce Carey as a specialised batsman at number 5. Given he will eventually replace Paine as long as he keeps performing. Which he is. That way it gives him the experience of International test cricket before he takes over the with the gloves. And he can make runs too so he wouldn't be that bad as a option. I just don't rate Head. Even bringing in Renshaw at number 5 could be another option.


Renshaw doing Renshaw things.
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Re: Australian International Summer (The Ashes) 2021/22

Postby Rik E Boy » Mon Oct 18, 2021 1:13 pm

Booney wrote:
Eagles2014 wrote:
Rik E Boy wrote:Puc sconned again. About ten times now. Can't play the short one so career probably over.

regards,

REB


Agree. Anderson, Broad and any other pace bowler for that matter will just bounce him and he is history. Such a shame. Terrible he has not been coached better in this area of his game when the rest is so good :shock:


I reckon the short ones are the hardest to coach into someones game. Given the prodigious talent he has been his whole junior career there's no doubt someone has worked on it with him, but it's either there or it's not. Might also be reflective of the bowling talent around Victoria in under age ranks not having the ability to really test him, it took until he was playing at Second X1 level before he was confronted with pure bumpers.

Or he's just susceptible to concussion and it's not about the way he plays but the manner in which he can cop the blows, for some it might not register at all, for him it lingers for days, either way you have to feel for the lad.


A quick look at Victorian pace bowling ranks over the past decade would suggest they are ahead of most I think. I keep thinking back to one ball that sconned Puc in that A game last year. It was a dead set cut ball and here he is trying to pull it and it has hit him in the head. It's dead set the manner in which he plays. If the ball is in the cut zone you shouldn't be bending down low and trying to pull it. Looks really unconvincing against the short stuff and thank **** Archer is staying at home. Retire now son.

regards,

REB
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Re: Australian International Summer (The Ashes) 2021/22

Postby Rik E Boy » Mon Oct 18, 2021 1:15 pm

BTW thanks Redbacks you utter spuds. Now everyone is talking up Usman 'soft ******* dissmissal' Khawaja as the answer to our top order problems. FMD he's a marshmellow. A more frustrating batsman you will not find currently playing in Australia.

regards,

REB
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Re: Australian International Summer (The Ashes) 2021/22

Postby whufc » Mon Oct 18, 2021 1:22 pm

Rik E Boy wrote:BTW thanks Redbacks you utter spuds. Now everyone is talking up Usman 'soft ******* dissmissal' Khawaja as the answer to our top order problems. FMD he's a marshmellow. A more frustrating batsman you will not find currently playing in Australia.

regards,

REB


Agree. Should never wear the baggy green again.
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Re: Australian International Summer (The Ashes) 2021/22

Postby Armchair expert » Mon Oct 18, 2021 1:28 pm

He and Langer don't get along, no chance of getting back in the test set up
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Re: Australian International Summer (The Ashes) 2021/22

Postby The Dark Knight » Mon Oct 18, 2021 7:09 pm

Armchair expert wrote:He and Langer don't get along, no chance of getting back in the test set up

What makes you say that? The documentary 'The Test'?

Usman Khawaja stated publicly on his YouTube channel back in August that his and Langers relationship is 'really good'.

I watched the video as it come up in my recommended videos and found it quite interesting, there was an article written about it in the Sunday Morning Herald too-
https://www.smh.com.au/sport/cricket/kh ... 58m5u.html

Veteran batsman Usman Khawaja could have an awkward return to the Australian dressing room after suggesting players were stabbing besieged coach Justin Langer in the back.

Some players spoken to by the Herald and The Age are unhappy with the reference Khawaja made during a video posted on his YouTube channel this week, in which he discussed his relationship with the coach.

In the video, Khawaja said: “How do you think JL feels? He probably feels like the guys in the team are stabbing him in the back. And that’s what it looks like.”

However, Khawaja explained on Thursday that he was simply putting himself in the coach’s shoes, not making accusations.

“I was wondering how he was feeling,” Khawaja told to the Herald and The Age. “I was simply trying to be respectful, and I felt bad for JL. He comes from a good place.

“I encourage everyone to watch the video, so they can get the full context of what I’m saying.”

The stylish left-hander is among the favourites to fill one of the holes in Australia’s batting line-up this Ashes summer if he starts the Sheffield Shield season well. He averaged 59 as Queensland captain last summer.

With Langer’s intensive and abrasive coaching raising heightened concerns among players and support staff, and Khawaja seen as an example because of his confrontation with the coach in The Test documentary, Khawaja decided to post the video.

Khawaja said that in spite of his very public confrontation with Langer early in his coaching tenure, their relationship was “really good”.

“I still talk to him, I still text him here and there,” Khawaja said on the YouTube video. “That’s because we have a lot of respect for each other.”

He also added perspective to his dropping midway through the 2019 Ashes series.

“People think I got dropped because I spoke up to him, stood up to him and all these other things,” Khawaja said. “It’s actually quite the opposite. I feel like I became closer with him. I feel like he gained my respect and I gained his respect because we had some really open and honest conversations together.

“So let’s just stop it right there. There were two people who dropped me for the Ashes, (then chairman of selectors) Trevor Hohns and JL, so it wasn’t just JL.”
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Re: Australian International Summer (The Ashes) 2021/22

Postby The Dark Knight » Mon Oct 18, 2021 8:21 pm

whufc wrote:
Rik E Boy wrote:BTW thanks Redbacks you utter spuds. Now everyone is talking up Usman 'soft ******* dissmissal' Khawaja as the answer to our top order problems. FMD he's a marshmellow. A more frustrating batsman you will not find currently playing in Australia.

regards,

REB

Agree. Should never wear the baggy green again.

Whilst I tend to agree with you guys, I still believe he's not the worst option to open the batting in the Ashes in Australia if need be.

I looked into his test numbers compared to others who have opened recently and some of them could open the batting again in the near future.

Khawaja-
Average opening- 96.8 from 7 innings, two hundreds.
Average in Australia- 52.97 from 40 innings with 6 hundreds.
Against England- averages 29.85 from 21 innings, 1 hundred.

Warner-
Average opening- 48.80 from 156 innings, 24 hundreds.
Average in Australia- 63.20 from 79 innings, 18 hundreds.
Against England- averages 39.39 from 43 innings, 3 hundreds.

Burns-
Average opening- 37.02 from 36 innings, 4 hundreds.
Average in Australia- 37.56 from 31 innings, 3 hundreds.
Burns hasn't played an Ashes Test.

Harris-
Average opening 23.77 from 19 innings, 0 hundreds.
Average in Australia- 30.83 from 13 innings.
Against England- averages 9.66 from 6 innings.

Bancroft-
Average opening- 26.23 from 18 innings, 0 hundreds.
Average in Australia- 25.57 from 8 innings.
Against England- averages 20.27 from 12 innings.

Renshaw-
Average opening 33.61 from 19 innings, 1 hundred.
Average in Australia- 63 from 6 innings, 1 hundred.
Renshaw hasn't played an Ashes Test.

Finch-
Average opening 27.80 from 10 innings.

Pucovski-
Average opening- 36 from 2 innings.

Looking at other recent state cricket openers getting around there's Sam Whiteman, Calab Jewell, Tim Ward, Bryce Street, Jake Cadar, Henry Hunt, Jake Weatherald, Daniel Hughes, Matthew Gilkes, could any of the younger guys in this group take the next step?

As for the most frustrating batsman in Australia for the last 10 years, I'll take your Khawaja and raise you Shaun Marsh!
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Re: Australian International Summer (The Ashes) 2021/22

Postby Jim05 » Mon Oct 18, 2021 9:36 pm

Just saw on the net that some Irish bloke just got a double hat trick
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Re: Australian International Summer (The Ashes) 2021/22

Postby spell_check » Mon Oct 18, 2021 10:00 pm

Rod Tucker not having a good time of it; Curtis Campher otherwise:
-First was, admittedly a faint glove, but was given not out down the leg side, reviewed and overturned
-Second was the veteran ten Doeschate hit on the foot, out lbw
-Third was going to crash into leg stump but was given not out; reviewed and overturned
-Fourth was a drive attempted, but ended up being a bottom edge onto the stumps
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Re: Australian International Summer (The Ashes) 2021/22

Postby locky801 » Mon Oct 18, 2021 11:55 pm

spell_check wrote:Rod Tucker not having a good time of it; Curtis Campher otherwise:
-First was, admittedly a faint glove, but was given not out down the leg side, reviewed and overturned
-Second was the veteran ten Doeschate hit on the foot, out lbw
-Third was going to crash into leg stump but was given not out; reviewed and overturned
-Fourth was a drive attempted, but ended up being a bottom edge onto the stumps


Some pretty ordinary batting in those 4, wasnt as though the bowling was express
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Re: Australian International Summer (The Ashes) 2021/22

Postby Rik E Boy » Wed Oct 20, 2021 7:26 am

Some interesting numbers Knight but numbers never tell the full story, particularly in Khawaja's case. You mentioned Nick Marsh. I reckon Usi has more class in his left glove than Marsh has in his whole kit but once Marsh got in he usually went on with it. He was your classic all duck no dinner player.

With Usi you always felt he could get out next ball and that soft dissmissal is always on the table. The only time I didn't feel that way was when he made that 170 odd in the UAE. I felt "at last, this bloke has arrived". Unfortunately he regressed to that stylish hit and miss player he was when he started. If he's hit and miss I'd rather Harris who admittedly has been underwhelming at Test level.

regards,

REB
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Re: Australian International Summer (The Ashes) 2021/22

Postby Booney » Wed Oct 20, 2021 4:02 pm

Rik E Boy wrote:
Bombers4EVA wrote:Id have Jye Richardson in the mix somewhere. Especially before Starc.

And still unsure about Travis Head in the big games. Think his technique needs to be worked on in the red ball format on a international level. And is too inconsistent.


Pattinson before Starc and Head looks in decent nick so pick him.

1. Warner
2. Puc
3. Marnus
4. Devereux
5. Head
6. Green
7. Paine
8. Cummins
9. Pattinson
10. Goat
11. Hazelwood
12. Some dude that can field

regards,

REB


Has retired from Test cricket. :shock:
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Re: Australian International Summer (The Ashes) 2021/22

Postby The Dark Knight » Wed Oct 20, 2021 6:49 pm

Booney wrote:Has retired from Test cricket. :shock:

Bitterly disappointing. I'm usually not someone who thinks or says 'what if' when it comes to injured ravaged sportsman but Pattinson is my exception to the rule. Just imagine what he could of been and how good he could of been for Australia if injures didn't absolutely ruin his career. I still remember seeing him bowl for the first time on TV in a ODD game for Victoria where his was bowling 145km/h outswing at 20 years of age and from there I wanted him to succeed and play for Australia. Dale Steyn is my favourite cricketer and I seriously believe Pattinson could of been the Aussie version of Steyn.
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Re: Australian International Summer (The Ashes) 2021/22

Postby The Dark Knight » Wed Oct 20, 2021 10:22 pm

Rik E Boy wrote:Some interesting numbers Knight but numbers never tell the full story, particularly in Khawaja's case. You mentioned Nick Marsh. I reckon Usi has more class in his left glove than Marsh has in his whole kit but once Marsh got in he usually went on with it. He was your classic all duck no dinner player.

With Usi you always felt he could get out next ball and that soft dissmissal is always on the table. The only time I didn't feel that way was when he made that 170 odd in the UAE. I felt "at last, this bloke has arrived". Unfortunately he regressed to that stylish hit and miss player he was when he started. If he's hit and miss I'd rather Harris who admittedly has been underwhelming at Test level.

regards,

REB

The numbers display the result of what has happened and how a player has performed, what's the rest of the story the numbers don't show?

How someone watching the game 'feels' about a batsman and how he could get out is just an irrelevant perception, all batsmen are prone to a 'soft' dismissal. When Khawaja was dropped in the 2019 Ashes after 3 tests out of his 6 dismissals he was caught behind edging to the Bairstow 4 times in a row, then the 6th time he was edging to Roy at second slip. (The 5th he was caught down the legside by Bairstow). Chris Woakes in particular would continually bowl over the wicket and across Khawaja setting him up to edge it, that's nothing to do with 'feel' or a 'soft' dismissal, that's a technical flaw in his game that England identified and were able to exploit.

His 141* against Pakistan in the UAE (his first and only hundred there to date) in 2018 was part of his second best return runs wise in his career- in 2018 he played 10 tests, score 732 runs @40.66 with 2 hundreds.
2016 has been his best year where he also played 10 tests, scored 753 runs @47.06 with 3 hundreds.
His 2019 was marginally better that his 2017 but obviously he wasn't playing well and lost his spot in the team which until now has been the right decision as Labuschagne has flourished.

I mention Marsh because of how well he's been batting in the Sheffield Shield the last 3/4 seasons. Continues to be one of the best players in Shield cricket late in his career yet was never able to translate that into test runs for Australia despite having so many chances which is why I find him frustrating.
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Re: Australian International Summer (The Ashes) 2021/22

Postby Rik E Boy » Thu Oct 21, 2021 7:01 am

Perception is not irrelevant when forming an opinion and there is a lot more besides the numbers. According to your viewpoint Adam Voges has Viv Richards covered. Usi has been a featherer his whole career, not because of any tactical nous applied the English in favourable conditions. Like Marsh, Usi also smashes it in the Shield and like Marsh, where's the improvement coming from? He's not 21 anymore and has plenty of chances, that's why I'm in the no Usi camp.

regards,

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Re: Australian International Summer (The Ashes) 2021/22

Postby whufc » Thu Oct 21, 2021 7:49 am

The Dark Knight wrote:
Rik E Boy wrote:Some interesting numbers Knight but numbers never tell the full story, particularly in Khawaja's case. You mentioned Nick Marsh. I reckon Usi has more class in his left glove than Marsh has in his whole kit but once Marsh got in he usually went on with it. He was your classic all duck no dinner player.

With Usi you always felt he could get out next ball and that soft dissmissal is always on the table. The only time I didn't feel that way was when he made that 170 odd in the UAE. I felt "at last, this bloke has arrived". Unfortunately he regressed to that stylish hit and miss player he was when he started. If he's hit and miss I'd rather Harris who admittedly has been underwhelming at Test level.

regards,

REB

The numbers display the result of what has happened and how a player has performed, what's the rest of the story the numbers don't show?

How someone watching the game 'feels' about a batsman and how he could get out is just an irrelevant perception, all batsmen are prone to a 'soft' dismissal. When Khawaja was dropped in the 2019 Ashes after 3 tests out of his 6 dismissals he was caught behind edging to the Bairstow 4 times in a row, then the 6th time he was edging to Roy at second slip. (The 5th he was caught down the legside by Bairstow). Chris Woakes in particular would continually bowl over the wicket and across Khawaja setting him up to edge it, that's nothing to do with 'feel' or a 'soft' dismissal, that's a technical flaw in his game that England identified and were able to exploit.

His 141* against Pakistan in the UAE (his first and only hundred there to date) in 2018 was part of his second best return runs wise in his career- in 2018 he played 10 tests, score 732 runs @40.66 with 2 hundreds.
2016 has been his best year where he also played 10 tests, scored 753 runs @47.06 with 3 hundreds.
His 2019 was marginally better that his 2017 but obviously he wasn't playing well and lost his spot in the team which until now has been the right decision as Labuschagne has flourished.

I mention Marsh because of how well he's been batting in the Sheffield Shield the last 3/4 seasons. Continues to be one of the best players in Shield cricket late in his career yet was never able to translate that into test runs for Australia despite having so many chances which is why I find him frustrating.


I absolutely love my stats but it doesn't tell the full picture.

Not saying Khawaja is guilty of these but stats don't tell you when a recognised batsmen gets out 3 overs before the new ball is due playing a shit shot and exposing the tail to a new ball.

Individual run stats/batting averages don't tell you the partnerships that were built. Would you rather a bloke who averages five less runs an innings but he can builds higher run partnerships, bats a longer time which in turn sees your middler/lower order hitting more runs because they are coming in to an older ball.

Like I said I love my stats and use them a lot but when for example two blokes average within 5 runs an innings of each other there is a lot more to take into account.
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Re: Australian International Summer (The Ashes) 2021/22

Postby The Dark Knight » Thu Oct 21, 2021 7:54 am

Rik E Boy wrote:Perception is not irrelevant when forming an opinion and there is a lot more besides the numbers. According to your viewpoint Adam Voges has Viv Richards covered. Usi has been a featherer his whole career, not because of any tactical nous applied the English in favourable conditions. Like Marsh, Usi also smashes it in the Shield and like Marsh, where's the improvement coming from? He's not 21 anymore and has plenty of chances, that's why I'm in the no Usi camp.

regards,

REB

What is there more than the numbers that goes into picking a player and then judging his success in your opinion?

My view point has nothing to do with the likes of Voges or Richards, I'm just talking about Khawaja only here.

Khawaja has been dismissed 71 times in test cricket, 24 times caught by the wicket keeper which is the highest of his dismissals and I'm not disputing the fact that he is a featherer but you can't just dismiss the fact that England would of planned for and exploited that flaw in order to get him out. Obviously the conditions are a factor too and helped the English quicks but you can't say that wouldn't of planned for it.

I agree both Khawaja and also Marsh have no improvement left in them and bringing Khawaja back in is not ideal but for a stop gap opening Khawaja is not the worst option compared to others who have filled the role recently. There's huge pressure on Harris to perform if he is selected due to Pucovski bring potentially unbelievable. I'm looking forward to seeing Australia's Ashes squad.
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Re: Australian International Summer (The Ashes) 2021/22

Postby The Dark Knight » Thu Oct 21, 2021 10:01 am

whufc wrote:
The Dark Knight wrote:
Rik E Boy wrote:Some interesting numbers Knight but numbers never tell the full story, particularly in Khawaja's case. You mentioned Nick Marsh. I reckon Usi has more class in his left glove than Marsh has in his whole kit but once Marsh got in he usually went on with it. He was your classic all duck no dinner player.

With Usi you always felt he could get out next ball and that soft dissmissal is always on the table. The only time I didn't feel that way was when he made that 170 odd in the UAE. I felt "at last, this bloke has arrived". Unfortunately he regressed to that stylish hit and miss player he was when he started. If he's hit and miss I'd rather Harris who admittedly has been underwhelming at Test level.

regards,

REB

The numbers display the result of what has happened and how a player has performed, what's the rest of the story the numbers don't show?

How someone watching the game 'feels' about a batsman and how he could get out is just an irrelevant perception, all batsmen are prone to a 'soft' dismissal. When Khawaja was dropped in the 2019 Ashes after 3 tests out of his 6 dismissals he was caught behind edging to the Bairstow 4 times in a row, then the 6th time he was edging to Roy at second slip. (The 5th he was caught down the legside by Bairstow). Chris Woakes in particular would continually bowl over the wicket and across Khawaja setting him up to edge it, that's nothing to do with 'feel' or a 'soft' dismissal, that's a technical flaw in his game that England identified and were able to exploit.

His 141* against Pakistan in the UAE (his first and only hundred there to date) in 2018 was part of his second best return runs wise in his career- in 2018 he played 10 tests, score 732 runs @40.66 with 2 hundreds.
2016 has been his best year where he also played 10 tests, scored 753 runs @47.06 with 3 hundreds.
His 2019 was marginally better that his 2017 but obviously he wasn't playing well and lost his spot in the team which until now has been the right decision as Labuschagne has flourished.

I mention Marsh because of how well he's been batting in the Sheffield Shield the last 3/4 seasons. Continues to be one of the best players in Shield cricket late in his career yet was never able to translate that into test runs for Australia despite having so many chances which is why I find him frustrating.


I absolutely love my stats but it doesn't tell the full picture.

Not saying Khawaja is guilty of these but stats don't tell you when a recognised batsmen gets out 3 overs before the new ball is due playing a shit shot and exposing the tail to a new ball.

Individual run stats/batting averages don't tell you the partnerships that were built. Would you rather a bloke who averages five less runs an innings but he can builds higher run partnerships, bats a longer time which in turn sees your middler/lower order hitting more runs because they are coming in to an older ball.

Like I said I love my stats and use them a lot but when for example two blokes average within 5 runs an innings of each other there is a lot more to take into account.

Some good points there mate.

Whilst not exactly what you mentioned in terms of partnerships you can actually find a breakdown of a batters parterships he has had with the other players he has batted with-
https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engin ... ow_summary

And a list of partnerships throughout their career-
https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engin ... w=fow_list
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