Australian International Summer (The Ashes) 2021/22

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Re: Australian International Summer (The Ashes) 2021/22

Postby am Bays » Thu Dec 30, 2021 11:18 am

whufc wrote:
His spent the first half of the year keeping in the shield so its not like he doesn't know what the difference is. Inglis has only played one shield game this year.


I am fully aware of that he needs to be doing it consistently though as first choice for a state.

This isnt Feb-March 1988 where a 2nd string 'keeper is demonstrating his temperament and leadership, whilst International players are getting chucked in WA jails, to G Chappell and there are doubts over the incumbent amongst the people that mater.
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Re: Australian International Summer (The Ashes) 2021/22

Postby RB » Thu Dec 30, 2021 11:20 am

First five test batting innings, for comparison:

Carey - 12, 9, 51, 6, 19
Nevill - 45, 2, 59, 2, 17
Wade - 28, 18, 11, 31*, 106
Paine - 7, 47, 17, 33, 92
Haddin - 11, 23, 33, 7, 32
Gilchrist - 81, 6, 149*, 28, 0
Healy - 26, 21, 27, 0, 27
R. Marsh - 9, 14, 44, 8, 0

Obviously strength of opposition and conditions varied, but I think it's a bit too early to say that Carey's batting isn't up to it at test level.
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Re: Australian International Summer (The Ashes) 2021/22

Postby whufc » Thu Dec 30, 2021 11:39 am

RB wrote:First five test batting innings, for comparison:

Carey - 12, 9, 51, 6, 19
Nevill - 45, 2, 59, 2, 17
Wade - 28, 18, 11, 31*, 106
Paine - 7, 47, 17, 33, 92
Haddin - 11, 23, 33, 7, 32
Gilchrist - 81, 6, 149*, 28, 0
Healy - 26, 21, 27, 0, 27
R. Marsh - 9, 14, 44, 8, 0

Obviously strength of opposition and conditions varied, but I think it's a bit too early to say that Carey's batting isn't up to it at test level.


Not sure what this says other than his had the worst start with the bat since Rod Marsh who arguably was never picked because of anything to do with batting.

First five game average don't tend to differ to much except for in the case of Brad Haddin. Based on those stats Carey will be doing very well to get to an average of 30 which for mine is the absolute bare minimum requirement from your keeper if we are to become the best in the world again.

Carey first five games 19ave...…..
Nevill- first five games...25ave-......….Career ave 22.00
Wade- first five games...48.5ave...….Career ave 29.87
Paine- first five games...39ave...…….Career ave 32.38
Hadddin first five games...21ave...….Career ave 32.99
Gilchrist first five games...66ave...…..Career ave 47.61
Healy first five games.....20.2ave...… Career ave 27.40
Marsh first five games... 15ave.....Career ave 26.50
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Re: Australian International Summer (The Ashes) 2021/22

Postby Brodlach » Thu Dec 30, 2021 11:44 am

Wade played part of his career as a specialist batsman
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Re: Australian International Summer (The Ashes) 2021/22

Postby Lightning McQueen » Thu Dec 30, 2021 11:46 am

RB wrote:First five test batting innings, for comparison:

Carey - 12, 9, 51, 6, 19
Nevill - 45, 2, 59, 2, 17
Wade - 28, 18, 11, 31*, 106
Paine - 7, 47, 17, 33, 92
Haddin - 11, 23, 33, 7, 32
Gilchrist - 81, 6, 149*, 28, 0
Healy - 26, 21, 27, 0, 27
R. Marsh - 9, 14, 44, 8, 0

Obviously strength of opposition and conditions varied, but I think it's a bit too early to say that Carey's batting isn't up to it at test level.


Marsh
Gilly
Carey
Nevill
Paine
Wade
Haddin
Healy

My good bloke to flogger table.
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Re: Australian International Summer (The Ashes) 2021/22

Postby Lightning McQueen » Thu Dec 30, 2021 11:48 am

RB wrote:First five test batting innings, for comparison:

Carey - 12, 9, 51, 6, 19
Nevill - 45, 2, 59, 2, 17
Wade - 28, 18, 11, 31*, 106
Paine - 7, 47, 17, 33, 92
Haddin - 11, 23, 33, 7, 32
Gilchrist - 81, 6, 149*, 28, 0
Healy - 26, 21, 27, 0, 27
R. Marsh - 9, 14, 44, 8, 0

Obviously strength of opposition and conditions varied, but I think it's a bit too early to say that Carey's batting isn't up to it at test level.

How good was that knock?
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Re: Australian International Summer (The Ashes) 2021/22

Postby whufc » Thu Dec 30, 2021 11:49 am

Lightning McQueen wrote:
RB wrote:First five test batting innings, for comparison:

Carey - 12, 9, 51, 6, 19
Nevill - 45, 2, 59, 2, 17
Wade - 28, 18, 11, 31*, 106
Paine - 7, 47, 17, 33, 92
Haddin - 11, 23, 33, 7, 32
Gilchrist - 81, 6, 149*, 28, 0
Healy - 26, 21, 27, 0, 27
R. Marsh - 9, 14, 44, 8, 0

Obviously strength of opposition and conditions varied, but I think it's a bit too early to say that Carey's batting isn't up to it at test level.

How good was that knock?


The Pakistan one at Hobart with Langer??
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Re: Australian International Summer (The Ashes) 2021/22

Postby Lightning McQueen » Thu Dec 30, 2021 11:53 am

whufc wrote:
Lightning McQueen wrote:
RB wrote:First five test batting innings, for comparison:

Carey - 12, 9, 51, 6, 19
Nevill - 45, 2, 59, 2, 17
Wade - 28, 18, 11, 31*, 106
Paine - 7, 47, 17, 33, 92
Haddin - 11, 23, 33, 7, 32
Gilchrist - 81, 6, 149*, 28, 0
Healy - 26, 21, 27, 0, 27
R. Marsh - 9, 14, 44, 8, 0

Obviously strength of opposition and conditions varied, but I think it's a bit too early to say that Carey's batting isn't up to it at test level.

How good was that knock?


The Pakistan one at Hobart with Langer??


Yerp, up there with his demolition of the Poms at the WACA.
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Re: Australian International Summer (The Ashes) 2021/22

Postby whufc » Thu Dec 30, 2021 11:57 am

Yep not sure many cricketer got you flocking to a TV site when you heard they were batting like Gilchrist.

Use to hate the days where you might about 10-20 minutes of the second innings in an ODI because of the news when you knew Gilchrist was batting.

When the cricket came on it was usually Gilchrist 25(13) or 0(2). Night ruined if Gilly had already got out. :lol:
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Re: Australian International Summer (The Ashes) 2021/22

Postby am Bays » Thu Dec 30, 2021 12:04 pm

whufc wrote:Not sure what this says other than his had the worst start with the bat since Rod Marsh who arguably was never picked because of anything to do with batting.

First five game average don't tend to differ to much except for in the case of Brad Haddin. Based on those stats Carey will be doing very well to get to an average of 30 which for mine is the absolute bare minimum requirement from your keeper if we are to become the best in the world again.

Carey first five games 19ave...…..
Nevill- first five games...25ave-......….Career ave 22.00
Wade- first five games...48.5ave...….Career ave 29.87
Paine- first five games...39ave...…….Career ave 32.38
Hadddin first five games...21ave...….Career ave 32.99
Gilchrist first five games...66ave...…..Career ave 47.61
Healy first five games.....20.2ave...… Career ave 27.40
Marsh first five games... 15ave.....Career ave 26.50


Umm Rod Marsh was picked for his batting over the incumbent Brian Taber in December 1970 after Australia's disastrous tour of South Africa (on the back of a tour to India) in 1969-70.

Marsh missed three chances on debut.
Last edited by am Bays on Thu Dec 30, 2021 12:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Australian International Summer (The Ashes) 2021/22

Postby RB » Thu Dec 30, 2021 12:04 pm

whufc wrote:
RB wrote:First five test batting innings, for comparison:

Carey - 12, 9, 51, 6, 19
Nevill - 45, 2, 59, 2, 17
Wade - 28, 18, 11, 31*, 106
Paine - 7, 47, 17, 33, 92
Haddin - 11, 23, 33, 7, 32
Gilchrist - 81, 6, 149*, 28, 0
Healy - 26, 21, 27, 0, 27
R. Marsh - 9, 14, 44, 8, 0

Obviously strength of opposition and conditions varied, but I think it's a bit too early to say that Carey's batting isn't up to it at test level.


Not sure what this says other than his had the worst start with the bat since Rod Marsh who arguably was never picked because of anything to do with batting.

First five game average don't tend to differ to much except for in the case of Brad Haddin. Based on those stats Carey will be doing very well to get to an average of 30 which for mine is the absolute bare minimum requirement from your keeper if we are to become the best in the world again.

Carey first five games 19ave...…..
Nevill- first five games...25ave-......….Career ave 22.00
Wade- first five games...48.5ave...….Career ave 29.87
Paine- first five games...39ave...…….Career ave 32.38
Hadddin first five games...21ave...….Career ave 32.99
Gilchrist first five games...66ave...…..Career ave 47.61
Healy first five games.....20.2ave...… Career ave 27.40
Marsh first five games... 15ave.....Career ave 26.50


FMD, you really have it in for Carey.

What the above 'says' is that Carey has had a similar start to other players that turned out to be top keeper-batsmen, like Healy, Marsh and Haddin, albeit not as good a start as some like Gilly obviously.

If the selectors were as harsh on Healy, Marsh or Haddin, for example, as you are on Carey, then we'd not have seen a number of important test centuries and or useful number sevens making consistent runs over the years.

Carey may or may not turn out to be an important player but the idea that we should rule a line through him is bizarre to me, particularly as no-one is knocking down the door.

Arguably, a score of 50 in your first five innings, without totally disgracing yourself in the other four, would be enough even for a specialist batsmen to make it at least into the 'jury's still out' box at this stage of their test career.

I suppose I just find your obsession with Carey peculiar, given Australia's blooded quite a number of (specialist) batsmen over the last decade or so who've not even done as well as Carey in their first few matches, and haven't read even 1% of the criticism from you that you've saved for Carey.

And Rod Marsh was certainly - and infamously - picked in the Australian team for his batting, although his keeping did improve.
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Re: Australian International Summer (The Ashes) 2021/22

Postby RB » Thu Dec 30, 2021 12:07 pm

Lightning McQueen wrote:
RB wrote:First five test batting innings, for comparison:

Carey - 12, 9, 51, 6, 19
Nevill - 45, 2, 59, 2, 17
Wade - 28, 18, 11, 31*, 106
Paine - 7, 47, 17, 33, 92
Haddin - 11, 23, 33, 7, 32
Gilchrist - 81, 6, 149*, 28, 0
Healy - 26, 21, 27, 0, 27
R. Marsh - 9, 14, 44, 8, 0

Obviously strength of opposition and conditions varied, but I think it's a bit too early to say that Carey's batting isn't up to it at test level.


Marsh
Gilly
Carey
Nevill
Paine
Wade
Haddin
Healy

My good bloke to flogger table.


I reckon you're being very kind on Bacchus.

Gilly would probably just about top my good bloke list for any sportsman.
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Re: Australian International Summer (The Ashes) 2021/22

Postby whufc » Thu Dec 30, 2021 12:14 pm

RB wrote:
whufc wrote:
RB wrote:First five test batting innings, for comparison:

Carey - 12, 9, 51, 6, 19
Nevill - 45, 2, 59, 2, 17
Wade - 28, 18, 11, 31*, 106
Paine - 7, 47, 17, 33, 92
Haddin - 11, 23, 33, 7, 32
Gilchrist - 81, 6, 149*, 28, 0
Healy - 26, 21, 27, 0, 27
R. Marsh - 9, 14, 44, 8, 0

Obviously strength of opposition and conditions varied, but I think it's a bit too early to say that Carey's batting isn't up to it at test level.


Not sure what this says other than his had the worst start with the bat since Rod Marsh who arguably was never picked because of anything to do with batting.

First five game average don't tend to differ to much except for in the case of Brad Haddin. Based on those stats Carey will be doing very well to get to an average of 30 which for mine is the absolute bare minimum requirement from your keeper if we are to become the best in the world again.

Carey first five games 19ave...…..
Nevill- first five games...25ave-......….Career ave 22.00
Wade- first five games...48.5ave...….Career ave 29.87
Paine- first five games...39ave...…….Career ave 32.38
Hadddin first five games...21ave...….Career ave 32.99
Gilchrist first five games...66ave...…..Career ave 47.61
Healy first five games.....20.2ave...… Career ave 27.40
Marsh first five games... 15ave.....Career ave 26.50


FMD, you really have it in for Carey.

What the above 'says' is that Carey has had a similar start to other players that turned out to be top keeper-batsmen, like Healy, Marsh and Haddin, albeit not as good a start as some like Gilly obviously.

If the selectors were as harsh on Healy, Marsh or Haddin, for example, as you are on Carey, then we'd not have seen a number of important test centuries and or useful number sevens making consistent runs over the years.

Carey may or may not turn out to be an important player but the idea that we should rule a line through him is bizarre to me, particularly as no-one is knocking down the door.

Arguably, a score of 50 in your first five innings, without totally disgracing yourself in the other four, would be enough even for a specialist batsmen to make it at least into the 'jury's still out' box at this stage of their test career.

I suppose I just find your obsession with Carey peculiar, given Australia's blooded quite a number of (specialist) batsmen over the last decade or so who've not even done as well as Carey in their first few matches, and haven't read even 1% of the criticism from you that you've saved for Carey.

And Rod Marsh was certainly - and infamously - picked in the Australian team for his batting, although his keeping did improve.


Your kidding if you think reaching a test average of high 20's (Healy and Marsh) in this day and age would keep you in the side nevermind being a top keeper/batsmen.

I don't have it in for Carey just think a lot of the 'hype' surrounding his start to his test career is a massive over reaction especially from the SA folk. Like people carrying on about his debut record and how good a keeper that makes him......FFS he did stuff all except take 7 catches I would expect our Spalding/Boob keeper to take. Also a lot of rubbish about how great a bat he is because of what he has done for the strikers in the T20....give me a spell. I really hope he makes me eat my words.....averages 30-35 with the bat and is the best keeper we seen since Gilchrist..just don't think that will happen though.

BTW ive never said rule a line through him.....he was genuinely in the mix with a few other blokes for the role. I think that says more about the the qualtity of keeper batsmen we have coming through though.
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Re: Australian International Summer (The Ashes) 2021/22

Postby Spargo » Thu Dec 30, 2021 12:17 pm

Now that Ferg’s retired whuffer had to find another player to hate on, Carey it is…
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Re: Australian International Summer (The Ashes) 2021/22

Postby Lightning McQueen » Thu Dec 30, 2021 12:19 pm

RB wrote:
Lightning McQueen wrote:
Marsh
Gilly
Carey
Nevill
Paine
Wade
Haddin
Healy

My good bloke to flogger table.


I reckon you're being very kind on Bacchus.

Gilly would probably just about top my good bloke list for any sportsman.


Yeah, you're probably right, I watched "Howzat" last week and was probably a bit consumed by his blokeness.

Gilly is undoubtably my favourite sportsman, I don't think I've ever been as sad as I was upon someone's retirement from cricket, I did cry as a kid when Lillee, Chappell and Marsh all retired after the same game.

Jason McCartney retiring from AFL cut the deepest, I still get goosebumps with that interview.
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Re: Australian International Summer (The Ashes) 2021/22

Postby mighty_tiger_79 » Thu Dec 30, 2021 12:23 pm

If Carey played for Qld the discussion will be completely different here.
The fact is, Wade should be the keeper.

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Re: Australian International Summer (The Ashes) 2021/22

Postby am Bays » Thu Dec 30, 2021 12:23 pm

Or we could just do an England and pick their keepers to cover holes in their batting like Stewart (one of the reasons why we dominated the ASHES in the 90s when they wouldn't pick Russell), Jones Prior and Butler who look a million $$$ when it's easy but as soon as it gets hard their keeping and batting flaws get exposed.

If England had picked good keepers like Russell, Read and now Foakes to set standards in the field and to turn half chances into dismissals they'd be a much better team back in the day and now.

I'm an old grumpy bastard whose been watching cricket for far too long and our system of choosing the best 'keeper first and batting 2nd is a tried true method over the last almost 150 years of test Cricket and why we are historically the number one cricket nation W:L.

But what about Gilchrist? Well he was a damn good gloveman (better than others like Wade mentioned in this thread) and a I saw first hand in 2004 how hard he worked at training in terms of being first on getting his catching technique right to be the best 'keeper he could be on the back of his batting ability.

He was the poster child for the harder I worked the better I got until he was mentally done at Adelaide in January 2008.
Let that be a lesson to you Port, no one beats the Bays five times in a row in a GF and gets away with it!!!
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Re: Australian International Summer (The Ashes) 2021/22

Postby am Bays » Thu Dec 30, 2021 12:34 pm

mighty_tiger_79 wrote:If Carey played for Qld the discussion will be completely different here.
The fact is, Wade should be the keeper.

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if he could 'keep.... (as well as the others)

How's that hat-trick Zamps??
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Re: Australian International Summer (The Ashes) 2021/22

Postby Lightning McQueen » Thu Dec 30, 2021 1:28 pm

mighty_tiger_79 wrote:If Carey played for Qld the discussion will be completely different here.
The fact is, Wade should be the keeper.

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Re: Australian International Summer (The Ashes) 2021/22

Postby daysofourlives » Thu Dec 30, 2021 1:51 pm

Lightning McQueen wrote:
RB wrote:First five test batting innings, for comparison:

Carey - 12, 9, 51, 6, 19
Nevill - 45, 2, 59, 2, 17
Wade - 28, 18, 11, 31*, 106
Paine - 7, 47, 17, 33, 92
Haddin - 11, 23, 33, 7, 32
Gilchrist - 81, 6, 149*, 28, 0
Healy - 26, 21, 27, 0, 27
R. Marsh - 9, 14, 44, 8, 0

Obviously strength of opposition and conditions varied, but I think it's a bit too early to say that Carey's batting isn't up to it at test level.


Marsh
Gilly
Carey
Nevill
Paine
Wade
Haddin
Healy

My good bloke to flogger table.


Geez it gets hard when you get to the last 4, Haddin wins for me, Wade saved by winning the T20 world cup for us
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