Australian International Summer (The Ashes) 2021/22

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Re: Australian International Summer (The Ashes) 2021/22

Postby reppoh_eht » Tue Jan 11, 2022 10:38 am

Dutchy wrote:Back on the declaration, its not about runs or overs left as such, more recovery time from the bowlers - the sport scientists would have more input than Langer/Cummins.

And FFS get off Carey's back, he is 4 tests into his career, he would have learnt more in the last 2 months than what he has learned in the last 2 years...


That's exactly what they did according to this...

Cummins and his fellow dressing room strategists took the average scoring rate across the first three-and-a-lot days of the Test (3.46 runs per over) and extrapolated it across the minimum number of overs that might remain in the game to hit upon a suitable fourth innings target.


https://www.cricket.com.au/news/pat-cummins-second-innings-declaration-captain-fourth-ashes-test-scg-australia-england/2022-01-09
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Re: Australian International Summer (The Ashes) 2021/22

Postby stan » Tue Jan 11, 2022 10:38 am

There was nothing wrong with the declaration.

We had 90 overs at probably the worst England side to come to Australia for a while and couldn't put them away.

Also it was good to have Green out there in the middle for a while and getting a few runs.
Read my reply. It is directed at you because you have double standards
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Re: Australian International Summer (The Ashes) 2021/22

Postby The Dark Knight » Tue Jan 11, 2022 10:45 am

whufc wrote:
The Dark Knight wrote:
whufc wrote:Btw we do think Khawajas century celebration was a dig at a fair few people

The Lebron move he mimicked is known as ‘the silencer’

He seems to be in a real don’t give no **** mind frame. Dancing on the boundary in Adelaide, being real real honest in his interviews both on and off the field. Went up to Smith and slowed the last over down.

Comes across as if he is was pretty pissed about how he had been treated and now is out to prove everyone wrong and go out with a bang.
Do you read or watch/listen to any cricket media or do you just make up theories all the time? Have you listened to or read Khawaja speak about his return to the test team? You'll find your theory has no basis.

A press conference from a few day ago that Khawaja did where he talked about his hundred celebration, he said he did it because he loves basketball and loves LeBron and was having a bit of fun with his team mates and that's why he did it. https://youtu.be/G7iIursTXJk

And yesterday he did another press conference where he was asked about his position in the team- https://youtu.be/fXu5K_oe37w

Khawaja on Fox Cricket after yesterday's play- https://youtu.be/t9bnPS74JyE

From what I've read about and listened to of Khawaja of late to me he seems like he's at peace as to what had happened in the past and where he sits within the Australian team set up and has been very relaxed, greatful and humble when he has talked about playing for Australia again and now his recent performance. To me it seems as though he isn't bitter about what has happened in the past and doesn't have the chip on his shoulder you perceive him to have.

I avoid a lot of the media, just read what I stumble across

I was kind of half on track in that there is a change of attitude just a different direction to what I said

It’s really refreshing, never been his biggest fan in the past but version 2.0 is enjoyable to watch both with bat in hand and the attitude his playing the game with. Hope it carries him well for a while to come.

Why do you avoid alot of the media?

If you're looking for information about anything (cricket in this sense obviously) you have 24/7 access to something that can, more often than not tell you exactly what you need to know whether to confirm or deny a theory idea you have in your head about something. We now have more access Australian cricketers more than ever and if you're willing to read about or listen to them through press conferences and interviews and even social media you can actually find out alot about them rather than just having a perception of them and sticking with it.

A different direction to what you said? Is that another way of saying your perception of him might not be what's he's actually like?
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Re: Australian International Summer (The Ashes) 2021/22

Postby whufc » Tue Jan 11, 2022 12:18 pm

Firstly i stated I liked what Khawaja was doing and find it 'refreshing'. I even said I wasn't his biggest fan in the early days but really enjoying the new attitude he has brought....its great to hear it comes from a place of peace and not anger and yes I got that bit wrong as you clearly showed. I am happy to change an opinion on a person or go against the grain somewhat. I'm a big fan of Labuschagne...…..comes across to me as just a kid who bloody loves the game of cricket and hasn't been weighed down by the seriousness or pressure of international cricket. Yeah he carries on a bit but so did we all when we were a kid and just loved playing every minute.

In regards to media, honest answer is I'm completely disengaged with the way media operate in todays society.

These days we have organisations like CA spending millions a year via 'online media' which to be honest is just online marketing and they could sell ice to an eskimo. Pre-scripted press conferences, On the other hand you have media personalities now like Shane Warne who would sell their own mother to get a headline. Does anyone believe Warne actually believes everything that comes out his mouth. His no lone ranger either with the list of good media personalities pretty thin...………...Hussey probably my favourite.

Obviously I stumble across a bit of social media, I have to for work but if I have a chance to sit down and scroll the interweb haha im probably more looking at historical games, legends of the game (I never appreciated Viv Richards anywhere near enough since being able to see so many of his highlights), controversial moments or unknown type stories and avoiding any Covid related discussions.
Last edited by whufc on Tue Jan 11, 2022 1:05 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Australian International Summer (The Ashes) 2021/22

Postby mal » Tue Jan 11, 2022 12:54 pm

Alex Carey
Sum of youse watch more cricket then me , hence I might be wrong
So here's my 15 cents worth on Alex Carey

In most games ive seen him before this test series , he kept well and batted well
Thats probably the main reason why he was selected to play this series after Tim Paine made himself unavailable
Ive watched just about every ball of this series
His keeping has been way below his standards
His batting below his best, but he was kind of sacrificed twice that I saw
He had to open when Warner was injured, he faced THAT ball before THAT Declaration
Having said that he could have made 2 not outs in both digs though

This is why Im gunna bat for Alex
THAT ball b4 THAT declaration was a team shot
There are cricketers who would have pushed a single or played a less riskier shot
But Alex played a team shot

Lets not forget, he is a Test rookie of 4 tests
WHUFC more or less states he is an experienced player in the set up and it cant be used as a BIG excuse
DUTCHY states give him sum slack , he is still a rookies
SAFOOTY Wicket keeping expert AMBAYS seems to be each way on Alex[ look forward to his conclusions on Carey now]

That leaves me
I will compare Alex with 2 other amazing Australian left handed wicket keepers [ 3 if ambays is left handed]
Rodney Marsh
Adam gilCHRIST

Early in both careers both were criticised for a lack of keeping skills
Rodney got THAT nickname Iron Gloves- later became a star with the gloves
Adam mainly because of his batting skill kept his spot- later to greatly improve his glovework


Alex Carey has proven he is a good keeper for SA and 20/20 and ODIs
, hopefully he makes it at test level, I prefer to judge him after about 12 tests
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Re: Australian International Summer (The Ashes) 2021/22

Postby Rik E Boy » Tue Jan 11, 2022 1:05 pm

Fair call on Carey mally. I think our slips staggering needs some attention. We can't have the keeper and first slip staring at each other as the ball flies through. Never really seen a first slipper get that close before. His glovework looks good to excellent and with his batting he just needs to work on shot selection and not get quite so jittery when the runs dry up. He's still a whiteball player who hasn't quite adjusted yet.

regards,

REB
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Re: Australian International Summer (The Ashes) 2021/22

Postby whufc » Tue Jan 11, 2022 1:43 pm

This is going to be my last post ever with the name Alex Carey, I wont post good, bad, ugly no matter how he performs for the rest of the series. What I will do those is summarise my thoughts so you can refer to it when hopefully he hits that hundred or starts keeping amazingly well and you want to throw a fair bit back.

-He is keeping absolutely terribly at the moment, he is a better keeper than he has shown but personally I don't think his as good a keeper as many rate him.
-imo he does the basics extremely well infact if I had to have a keeper catch a regulation catch to save my life his probably the man but imo I haven't seen much outstanding from him when it comes to the non regulation acts.
-Imo to be a good test keeper you have to do the regulation very well but also be able to do the spectacular as well. imo Carey comes across as if he is a keeper who doesn't like to dive....no I don't have the facts or stats on that just a feeling. Yes a good keeper should limit how much he has to 'dive' but it is inevitable at test level where so many wickets are from edges that you are going to need to move vertically left to right and right to left. I don't have his biomechanics or any of that information but for mine he just doesn't appear to have the 'spring' I see from others keepers.
-imo the above is what separates the good from the very good. Every state keeper should of taken every catch his taken so far......its those missed half chances that make the difference not how well you take the ball when a batter leaves one through to him.
-imo he will never average 30 with the bat at test level so therefore his keeping needs to be on point for the majority of time. Keeping in mind our last 3 keepers Paine, Wade, Haddin all averaged above 30 with the bat. yes I know Wade played just as a batsmen as well.
-imo he is still a very immature batter very often gets out playing a very poor shot at a very poor time eg his first innings dismissal.
-imo Carey being from SA has a major on influence on peoples judgement of his performance. If Wade/Inglis had done exactly the same as Carey this season could you imagine this forum, they would be calling for a dropping immediately. Being that I have lived in multiple states and countries I don't feel that SA pride as much as others on here.

Anyways ill leave it at that but happy to be crucified when/if things go well for him. Live and die by the sword but im not going to post on the subject anymore.....kind of took away from my enjoyment of hoping and watching that he achieves success in the last test which is actually what I want from him.

Would be a boring forum if we didn't have different opinions on players/tactics etc.
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Re: Australian International Summer (The Ashes) 2021/22

Postby rd » Tue Jan 11, 2022 2:34 pm

Lets leave Carey and move onto Boland.

He's played 2 Tests and currently has taken 14/121.

Bob Massie in 1972 in his debut test for Aust took 16/137.

His overall career was 31/647 from 6 tests.

Hirwani in 1987 in his debut test for India took 16/136.

His overall career was 66/1987 from 17 tests.

So Boland has to get his next 2 wickets for under 15 runs to have a better start to his Test career than Massie & Hirwani who probably made the best starts to Test careers since WW2.
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Re: Australian International Summer (The Ashes) 2021/22

Postby Corona Man » Tue Jan 11, 2022 2:47 pm

Rik E Boy wrote:Fair call on Carey mally. I think our slips staggering needs some attention. We can't have the keeper and first slip staring at each other as the ball flies through. Never really seen a first slipper get that close before. His glovework looks good to excellent and with his batting he just needs to work on shot selection and not get quite so jittery when the runs dry up. He's still a whiteball player who hasn't quite adjusted yet.

regards,

REB


For mine Carey is the new bloke into the team & probably minding his beez wax a bit. I have fielded at first slip (& slips in general) for many years (no not for Australia) and always take my position off the keeper. Likewise if I see the keeper moves well, I take half a pace over as I can see he has that covered. When I field with a keeper I do not know, its a simple chat with "you happy with me here mate?"
Get the feeling Carey is a bit to introverted to tell Davy where to stand as the newbie into the team. With that comes the decision on what he goes for & what he doesn't.
Reckon Gilly was onto something on the coverage where he called the drop on day 5, due to Carey's right leg collapsing under him..... he was caught on the wrong foot on that one for mine. So that's a judgement skill error on Carey's behalf.
There is enough to preserver with for now, play out this series, and the one in Pakistan & if the same stuff is happening, then look at Inglis.
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Re: Australian International Summer (The Ashes) 2021/22

Postby mighty_tiger_79 » Tue Jan 11, 2022 2:49 pm

If Carey's name was Wade you would all have him hung drawn and quartered ....

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Re: Australian International Summer (The Ashes) 2021/22

Postby Corona Man » Tue Jan 11, 2022 2:53 pm

mighty_tiger_79 wrote:If Carey's name was Wade you would all have him hung drawn and quartered ....

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Wade had his shot, his legacy to the game was......niiiiicee Gary.
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Re: Australian International Summer (The Ashes) 2021/22

Postby Dutchy » Tue Jan 11, 2022 2:53 pm

I fielded at 1st slip for most of my meagre cricketing career, however if there was ever an edge that went between myself and the keeper we would actually both go for it and 90% of the time the keeper (being 2-3m closer to the batter) would gobble it up, if they didn't time their dive correctly I was there to attempt to take the catch. It staggers me when you see any edge go between the keeper and 1st slip without either attempting the catch and just staring at each other.
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Re: Australian International Summer (The Ashes) 2021/22

Postby Corona Man » Tue Jan 11, 2022 2:55 pm

Dutchy wrote:I fielded at 1st slip for most of my meagre cricketing career, however if there was ever an edge that went between myself and the keeper we would actually both go for it and 90% of the time the keeper (being 2-3m closer to the batter) would gobble it up, if they didn't time their dive correctly I was there to attempt to take the catch. It staggers me when you see any edge go between the keeper and 1st slip without either attempting the catch and just staring at each other.

Agree, that's just indecision. A first slip should not need to be catching too much low in the left hand, but if he goes at it & the keeper comes across in front no damage done. Who gives a **** who catches it, so long as someone does.
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Re: Australian International Summer (The Ashes) 2021/22

Postby whufc » Tue Jan 11, 2022 3:03 pm

rd wrote:Lets leave Carey and move onto Boland.

He's played 2 Tests and currently has taken 14/121.

Bob Massie in 1972 in his debut test for Aust took 16/137.

His overall career was 31/647 from 6 tests.

Hirwani in 1987 in his debut test for India took 16/136.

His overall career was 66/1987 from 17 tests.

So Boland has to get his next 2 wickets for under 15 runs to have a better start to his Test career than Massie & Hirwani who probably made the best starts to Test careers since WW2.


Whilst he cant produce these numbers for the rest of his career if he can bowl as accurately as he has this series he is going to be a very very good test bowler.

I expect to see the English move around the crease a bit more to him this test, a lot like what Stokes tried to do.

Its amazing how he can produce these figures at test level based on a solid first class career. Is it the bit extra these pitches have offered compared to a lot of shield pitches I see that is making him so dangerous.

Its definitely the story of the summer, long make it continue, cant wait to see him bowl in an Ashes in England on those pitches.
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Re: Australian International Summer (The Ashes) 2021/22

Postby mighty_tiger_79 » Tue Jan 11, 2022 3:08 pm

Corona Man wrote:
mighty_tiger_79 wrote:If Carey's name was Wade you would all have him hung drawn and quartered ....

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Wade had his shot, his legacy to the game was......niiiiicee Gary.
But didn't he say it well!

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Re: Australian International Summer (The Ashes) 2021/22

Postby Lightning McQueen » Tue Jan 11, 2022 3:12 pm

rd wrote:Lets leave Carey and move onto Boland.

He's played 2 Tests and currently has taken 14/121.

Bob Massie in 1972 in his debut test for Aust took 16/137.

His overall career was 31/647 from 6 tests.


Hirwani in 1987 in his debut test for India took 16/136.

His overall career was 66/1987 from 17 tests.

So Boland has to get his next 2 wickets for under 15 runs to have a better start to his Test career than Massie & Hirwani who probably made the best starts to Test careers since WW2.


Rod Marsh was was playing in his 8th test when Bob Massie debuted for Australia, he was averaging 31.4 with the stick at the time with a 92 not out and a 91 to his name, Bacchus scored 50 in Massie's first game, they didn't get to bat together and Massie was dismissed two balls after Marsh was.
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Re: Australian International Summer (The Ashes) 2021/22

Postby rd » Tue Jan 11, 2022 3:15 pm

whufc wrote:
rd wrote:Lets leave Carey and move onto Boland.

He's played 2 Tests and currently has taken 14/121.

Bob Massie in 1972 in his debut test for Aust took 16/137.

His overall career was 31/647 from 6 tests.

Hirwani in 1987 in his debut test for India took 16/136.

His overall career was 66/1987 from 17 tests.

So Boland has to get his next 2 wickets for under 15 runs to have a better start to his Test career than Massie & Hirwani who probably made the best starts to Test careers since WW2.


Whilst he cant produce these numbers for the rest of his career if he can bowl as accurately as he has this series he is going to be a very very good test bowler.

I expect to see the English move around the crease a bit more to him this test, a lot like what Stokes tried to do.

Its amazing how he can produce these figures at test level based on a solid first class career. Is it the bit extra these pitches have offered compared to a lot of shield pitches I see that is making him so dangerous.

Its definitely the story of the summer, long make it continue, cant wait to see him bowl in an Ashes in England on those pitches.


I remember Reiffel coming into the Aust team mid series in England years ago and collecting a bag of cheap wickets and England did it to us in 1985 with Richard Ellison. Unknown medium paced bowlers are dangerous and it all started with Terry Alderman in 1981 - England knew nothing about him.
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Re: Australian International Summer (The Ashes) 2021/22

Postby The Dark Knight » Tue Jan 11, 2022 3:15 pm

whufc wrote:Firstly i stated I liked what Khawaja was doing and find it 'refreshing'. I even said I wasn't his biggest fan in the early days but really enjoying the new attitude he has brought....its great to hear it comes from a place of peace and not anger and yes I got that bit wrong as you clearly showed. I am happy to change an opinion on a person or go against the grain somewhat. I'm a big fan of Labuschagne...…..comes across to me as just a kid who bloody loves the game of cricket and hasn't been weighed down by the seriousness or pressure of international cricket. Yeah he carries on a bit but so did we all when we were a kid and just loved playing every minute.

In regards to media, honest answer is I'm completely disengaged with the way media operate in todays society.

These days we have organisations like CA spending millions a year via 'online media' which to be honest is just online marketing and they could sell ice to an eskimo. Pre-scripted press conferences, On the other hand you have media personalities now like Shane Warne who would sell their own mother to get a headline. Does anyone believe Warne actually believes everything that comes out his mouth. His no lone ranger either with the list of good media personalities pretty thin...………...Hussey probably my favourite.

Obviously I stumble across a bit of social media, I have to for work but if I have a chance to sit down and scroll the interweb haha im probably more looking at historical games, legends of the game (I never appreciated Viv Richards anywhere near enough since being able to see so many of his highlights), controversial moments or unknown type stories and avoiding any Covid related discussions.

Yes you're right about Labuschagne, absolutely loves cricket and is like an excitable kid playing the game, I can see why it annoys people but it's completely natural and part of his personality.

I agree that CA and in particular Cricket.com.au has a certain amount of propaganda that they write and distribute which has an obvious bias towards the Australian Cricket teams and therefore I don't find it the best source of cricket information, it's why I prefer ESPN Cricinfo as it generally covers everything you'd want but Cricket.com.au occasionally provides some good, informative articles and usually are very good for player interviews, news videos and highlights.

For interviews and analysis I've found podcasts and YouTube videos are great for cricket information. The Grade Cricketer guys provide great informal player interviews, The Wisden cricket podcast/videos is quite informative without being too bias towards England, Sky Sports in England provide some good vodcast stuff while my favourite video based cricket information comes from former ESPN Cricinfo writer and analyst Jarrod Kimber, the information and analysis he provides is incredible. He generally covers all test and first class cricket through his 'Red Inker' Podcast and also does a Spotify green room Podcast along with review and analysis videos in his 'Last Knock' short video series.
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Re: Australian International Summer (The Ashes) 2021/22

Postby Lightning McQueen » Tue Jan 11, 2022 3:16 pm

Dutchy wrote:I fielded at 1st slip for most of my meagre cricketing career, however if there was ever an edge that went between myself and the keeper we would actually both go for it and 90% of the time the keeper (being 2-3m closer to the batter) would gobble it up, if they didn't time their dive correctly I was there to attempt to take the catch. It staggers me when you see any edge go between the keeper and 1st slip without either attempting the catch and just staring at each other.

If a left armer was bowling you'd stand wider as a keeper and everyone would push across 2 foot.

I think when we have 3 slips in place we could cover a further 2 metres than what we do, it cuts out the indecision too as the further apart from each other you are the more likely that you will both go for it.

I loved the slips, I loved it more against a left handed batter though being left handed, used to piss me off no end when the keeper dived across in front of me so I stood as wide as possible to stop him for doing so.
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Re: Australian International Summer (The Ashes) 2021/22

Postby whufc » Tue Jan 11, 2022 3:18 pm

The Dark Knight wrote:
whufc wrote:Firstly i stated I liked what Khawaja was doing and find it 'refreshing'. I even said I wasn't his biggest fan in the early days but really enjoying the new attitude he has brought....its great to hear it comes from a place of peace and not anger and yes I got that bit wrong as you clearly showed. I am happy to change an opinion on a person or go against the grain somewhat. I'm a big fan of Labuschagne...…..comes across to me as just a kid who bloody loves the game of cricket and hasn't been weighed down by the seriousness or pressure of international cricket. Yeah he carries on a bit but so did we all when we were a kid and just loved playing every minute.

In regards to media, honest answer is I'm completely disengaged with the way media operate in todays society.

These days we have organisations like CA spending millions a year via 'online media' which to be honest is just online marketing and they could sell ice to an eskimo. Pre-scripted press conferences, On the other hand you have media personalities now like Shane Warne who would sell their own mother to get a headline. Does anyone believe Warne actually believes everything that comes out his mouth. His no lone ranger either with the list of good media personalities pretty thin...………...Hussey probably my favourite.

Obviously I stumble across a bit of social media, I have to for work but if I have a chance to sit down and scroll the interweb haha im probably more looking at historical games, legends of the game (I never appreciated Viv Richards anywhere near enough since being able to see so many of his highlights), controversial moments or unknown type stories and avoiding any Covid related discussions.

Yes you're right about Labuschagne, absolutely loves cricket and is like an excitable kid playing the game, I can see why it annoys people but it's completely natural and part of his personality.

I agree that CA and in particular Cricket.com.au has a certain amount of propaganda that they write and distribute which has an obvious bias towards the Australian Cricket teams and therefore I don't find it the best source of cricket information, it's why I prefer ESPN Cricinfo as it generally covers everything you'd want but Cricket.com.au occasionally provides some good, informative articles and usually are very good for player interviews, news videos and highlights.

For interviews and analysis I've found podcasts and YouTube videos are great for cricket information. The Grade Cricketer guys provide great informal player interviews, The Wisden cricket podcast/videos is quite informative without being too bias towards England, Sky Sports in England provide some good vodcast stuff while my favourite video based cricket information comes from former ESPN Cricinfo writer and analyst Jarrod Kimber, the information and analysis he provides is incredible. He generally covers all test and first class cricket through his 'Red Inker' Podcast and also does a Spotify green room Podcast along with review and analysis videos in his 'Last Knock' short video series.


Ill make a point of taking a look at few that you have recommended.
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